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[FriendofCapVimes]

When I read game reports, combo reports, quick victories and some terminology all you experts have given the cards ("terminal"? anyone) I get the burning desire to say the following to anyone who will listen.  This forum seems the place.

What I like most about playing Dominion?  I don't often work it out.  Call me stupid or blind or thick - whatever - but I very rarely look at a Kingdom layout and go "ah...if I get that card, and that card, then in 10 moves I'll have x cash and I'll be buying Provinces and winning".  Of course I see odd combinations, but rarely does a Eureka moment strike and I can see just how I will - not might - win.  And that's what I like.  I never want that moment where it all just clicks and I can see how to beat the game.  For me, that breaks the game and there would be little point in playing again.  Like Monopoly - if you get Mayfair and Park Lane, you're probably going to win.  Not always, but enough to  make other players give up.  I know there are expert players probably laughing at my ineptitude.  Well, I don't care that I can't see a win in 8 - 10 turns.  For me, every game really is different, every game really is something new as I continue to discover all the intricacies, twists, turns and curve balls the cards can bring.  It really is true that there are no bad cards, these forums teach me that, there are just cards that work best at certain times and get in the way at others - and I keep discovering that.  My small group of three all play the same - we'd be rubbish at a tournament with all you guys - but we have lots of fun.  And like Charlie says when I tell them about a "killer" combo I've read about - it still has to come out in the shuffle, so there's never any guarantee.  Yes, you can try to shape you deck to increase the odds of it coming out, (I still think trashing is a pretty neat idea LOL) but in the meantime, someone has started buying Provinces and you're not ready.  Gods, I can't even card count so I don't recall who has bought what - so even the final reveal is a surprise for me.  Because of this, and the lack of a Monoploy-moment, I reckon I have more fun than any of the experts out there.  Yup, you'd slaughter me and laugh at me with a fast win.....but do I care?  Nah, because I'm getting more out the game than you ever will.  Hurrah for ignorance, it truly is bliss!
I have Dominion Basic, Intrigue and also Prosperity.  Enough cards, variety and mixes to last me a lifetime.

[GeoLib]

I think you're assuming that studying Dominion turns it into a solved game. If that were the case, then there's no way this community would still be around. There isn't a "Tic-Tac-Toe" strategy forum for a reason. I don't think anyone has had a moment when they "see how to beat the game." On certain boards expert players might be almost certain that a specific strategy is the way to go, but even then execution is extremely important. This is not a perfect information game like chess, one doesn't "see a win in 8-10 turns." If you prefer to play by buying things and figuring it out as you go along, and that works for you, great!

However, it's extremely presumptuous to say that your way is better, and that you must be having more fun than those of us who prefer playing with a different mindset. You don't know me. How can you possibly say that you're getting more out of this game than I ever will?

Also, did you really just compare Dominion to Monopoly? Oh god, if I ever felt in Dominion like I'd had a "Monopoly moment" (whatever that is) I would stop playing immediately.

[markusin]

You're not alone. I think moat of us were drawn to Dominion in the first place for the reasons that you describe. I also disagree that the experts know how to "solve" a game. Players here can engineer boards that can be won in 10 turns, but won't know how to do so on a typical board.

The fun-sucking certainty you describe is something I associate with Chess or Checkers or RTS games like StarCraft and WH40K:Dawn of War, but not Dominion. Typically, a player will know that they've got on only when there are a few turns left. How can one be certain of victory at the start of a game when they are at the mercy of shuffle luck (hey, there's some forum lingo). Best they can do is identify the strongest strategies.

For this reason, I continue to be fascinated by Dominion, because with so much variation we can never be true masters of the game.

[qmech]

I think moat of us were drawn to Dominion

Particularly Ozle.

[Awaclus]

Also, did you really just compare Dominion to Monopoly? Oh god, if I ever felt in Dominion like I'd had a "Monopoly moment" (whatever that is) I would stop playing immediately.

KC-Masquerade-Goons would probably be that.

[markusin]

I think moat of us were drawn to Dominion

Particularly Ozle.

This is why I don't always edit my posts to fix spelling errors.

[Drab Emordnilap]

I just want to say I applaud you and yours getting so much out of Dominion. Whatever you bring to the table, however much you dedicate to the game, we all love and enjoy the same game in our own way. Let's rejoice in the common bond instead of belittling each other's differing preferences. May you never forget to leave out your Duration card for next turn.

[blueblimp]

For me, every game really is different, every game really is something new as I continue to discover all the intricacies, twists, turns and curve balls the cards can bring.

That's true for experts too and is why people keep playing. (Well okay, there are sometimes games with no interesting decisions, but that's pretty rare. Even when the strategy is obvious, there's usually something interesting in how you go about it.)

I guess I wish you had phrased your post less condescendingly, because otherwise it's a nice summary of why Dominion is such a fun game.

[flies]

Probably the thing I enjoy most about dominion is what happens before my first buy, when I look at the board and think, "what is the fastest way to a win here?  How will I react if my opponent does this?"  The fact that Dominion admits this kind of deep strategical thinking is what keeps me coming back to it after years of playing.  Of course, there are lots of interesting decisions between there and the game over - I think I'm improving at forcing an ending when I'm ahead, for instance - but the sort of large picture view that you don't seem to be interested in is the main draw for me.

So yeah, it's great that Dominion can appeal differently to different people. 

[Awaclus]

Probably the thing I enjoy most about dominion is what happens before my first buy, when I look at the board and think, "what is the fastest way to a win here?"

Shouldn't you think "what is the most reliable way to a win here?" instead?

[flies]

Probably the thing I enjoy most about dominion is what happens before my first buy, when I look at the board and think, "what is the fastest way to a win here?"

Shouldn't you think "what is the most reliable way to a win here?" instead?

yes. 

[A Drowned Kernel]

Probably the thing I enjoy most about dominion is what happens before my first buy, when I look at the board and think, "what is the fastest way to a win here?"

Shouldn't you think "what is the most reliable way to a win here?" instead?

yes.

The fastest way to win is "buy chancellor and money and hope for perfect shuffle-luck" :p

[florrat]

Probably the thing I enjoy most about dominion is what happens before my first buy, when I look at the board and think, "what is the fastest way to a win here?"

Shouldn't you think "what is the most reliable way to a win here?" instead?

yes.

The fastest way to win is "buy chancellor and money and hope for perfect shuffle-luck" :p

If you have perfec shuffle luck, why don't you just end the game on turn 3?

[2.71828.....]

Probably the thing I enjoy most about dominion is what happens before my first buy, when I look at the board and think, "what is the fastest way to a win here?"

Shouldn't you think "what is the most reliable way to a win here?" instead?

yes.

The fastest way to win is "buy chancellor and money and hope for perfect shuffle-luck" :p

scavenger works better

[Awaclus]

Probably the thing I enjoy most about dominion is what happens before my first buy, when I look at the board and think, "what is the fastest way to a win here?"

Shouldn't you think "what is the most reliable way to a win here?" instead?

yes.

The fastest way to win is "buy chancellor and money and hope for perfect shuffle-luck" :p

scavenger works better

Not really, it doesn't matter when you have the perfect shuffle luck.

[popsofctown]

Probably the thing I enjoy most about dominion is what happens before my first buy, when I look at the board and think, "what is the fastest way to a win here?"

Shouldn't you think "what is the most reliable way to a win here?" instead?

yes.

The fastest way to win is "buy chancellor and money and hope for perfect shuffle-luck" :p

scavenger works better

Not really, it doesn't matter when you have the perfect shuffle luck.

Opposing Governor-as-Remodel, final turn.

[Awaclus]

Probably the thing I enjoy most about dominion is what happens before my first buy, when I look at the board and think, "what is the fastest way to a win here?"

Shouldn't you think "what is the most reliable way to a win here?" instead?

yes.

The fastest way to win is "buy chancellor and money and hope for perfect shuffle-luck" :p

scavenger works better

Not really, it doesn't matter when you have the perfect shuffle luck.

Opposing Governor-as-Remodel, final turn.

Except when the Duchies are already sold out and Gardens is in the supply.

[2.71828.....]

Probably the thing I enjoy most about dominion is what happens before my first buy, when I look at the board and think, "what is the fastest way to a win here?"

Shouldn't you think "what is the most reliable way to a win here?" instead?

yes.

The fastest way to win is "buy chancellor and money and hope for perfect shuffle-luck" :p

scavenger works better

Not really, it doesn't matter when you have the perfect shuffle luck.

Actually thinking a little longer, you are right.  With perfect shuffle luck, you start chancellor/silver, buy a silver (or gold) turn 3, then a province every turn after that with chancellor/silver/silver(gold)/copper/copper. Scavenger would actually hurt your shuffle luck because you would be forced to put a copper back on top of your deck.  (but still, with perfect luck either one works)

[GendoIkari]

With perfect shuffle luck, better to open Chancellor/Coppersmith, and start buying Provinces on turn 3.

[soulnet]

With perfect shuffle luck, better to open Chancellor/Coppersmith, and start buying Provinces on turn 3.

You'd be "only" buying Provinces every other turn (you can only buy Prov if you play Coppersmith, therefore, you don't get to play Chancellor).

[GendoIkari]

With perfect shuffle luck, better to open Chancellor/Coppersmith, and start buying Provinces on turn 3.

You'd be "only" buying Provinces every other turn (you can only buy Prov if you play Coppersmith, therefore, you don't get to play Chancellor).

Darn 1-action per turn rule! 

[KingZog3]

I don't know why you bashed on terminology. I could say "An action card that doesn't give +1Action" or just "Terminal." That like saying you enjoy physics "But what is a force? I'm no expert, I just enjoy pushing things and it bugs me that people gave names to this!"

[Polk5440]

May you never forget to leave out your Duration card for next turn.

Don't worry. He doesn't have Seaside (yet)!

[liopoil]

With perfect shuffle luck, better to open Chancellor/Coppersmith, and start buying Provinces on turn 3.

You'd be "only" buying Provinces every other turn (you can only buy Prov if you play Coppersmith, therefore, you don't get to play Chancellor).

Darn 1-action per turn rule! 

necropolis to the rescue! (well, I suppose it does replace a copper, and so still no province )

chancellor-death cart with shelters? works for 3 turns...

[FriendofCapVimes]

Well...my little ol' opinion and need to just say stuff to (I thought) a like-minded crowd certainly pushed some buttons.  It was never my intent to seem condescending or imply "my way" is better than anyone else's.  It's just that - my way.  It is better for me, maybe not for you, or you, or you.  Some of you took this as a personal attack - it was never meant.  I had some thoughts on the game and I hoped fellow Dominion players would understand those thoughts.  Experienced players who would understand and appreciate.  Unlike a video game, where inexperienced players are insultingly labelled "newbie" and mercilessly shot / run over / pounded on, I hoped the Dominion community was a little more open to debate and opposing ideas.  Instead I get "you don't know me".  Passive aggressive much.  There you go, no doubt you can have a go at that one too.  That this forum has turned into a debate on which combos are best has made my point.  Killer combos, that card mix where you can see winning moves?  I don't see them until I've worked at it.  And for me - just me and the people I play with - that works best.  But that's just me.  Be pleased, all of you, that you don't have to play with me because it looks like a few of you would get quite frustrated with me.  *sigh*  And I wondered why I never contributed to a forum before.....