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[Voltaire]

So, at this point we need chairs/Walrus/Eevee/faust to get in here and weigh in. If that means voting for me, at least let me claim/get a final reads post out first.

At this point I am trying to decide if scum is jumping for glee that town is mislynching me or is a driving force behind me now being the leading wagon.

[Robz888]

I don't know, sort of my gut reaction on you.

Do you have anything stronger than a gut reaction on me? I re-read you to see if you've been consistent about this and you did seem to have me as "not scummy" for most of the day.

Well, I mean I explained my gut reaction. The way EFHW put yuma's case on you, it raises some flags about you. And how you are reacitng now I think is scummy. At some level it's a "gut" thing, but not an unfounded one. I'm rapidly changing my mind on you when confronted with new evidence, whereas your position on several players--I htink mostly me, and sort of yuma--is not natural.

[Voltaire]

I don't know, sort of my gut reaction on you.

Do you have anything stronger than a gut reaction on me? I re-read you to see if you've been consistent about this and you did seem to have me as "not scummy" for most of the day.

Well, I mean I explained my gut reaction. The way EFHW put yuma's case on you, it raises some flags about you. And how you are reacitng now I think is scummy. At some level it's a "gut" thing, but not an unfounded one. I'm rapidly changing my mind on you when confronted with new evidence, whereas your position on several players--I htink mostly me, and sort of yuma--is not natural.

And why do you no longer agree with EFHW's devils-advocate case for me being town? You liked it at first.

[Robz888]

I don't know, sort of my gut reaction on you.

Do you have anything stronger than a gut reaction on me? I re-read you to see if you've been consistent about this and you did seem to have me as "not scummy" for most of the day.

Well, I mean I explained my gut reaction. The way EFHW put yuma's case on you, it raises some flags about you. And how you are reacitng now I think is scummy. At some level it's a "gut" thing, but not an unfounded one. I'm rapidly changing my mind on you when confronted with new evidence, whereas your position on several players--I htink mostly me, and sort of yuma--is not natural.

And why do you no longer agree with EFHW's devils-advocate case for me being town? You liked it at first.

Because the other stuff is outweighing it.

You certainly going to win my approval by making me belabor the obvious over and over again.

[nkirbit]

Vote Count 1.11:

Robz888(1): Faust
WalrusMcFishSr (1): Eevee
Chairs (1):  Walrus
EFHW(1): Robz888
Voltaire(3): Yuma, EFHW, Mail-Mi
Not voting(2): Chairs, Voltaire

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Day 1 ends November 4 at 8:00 p.m.  That's in about six and a half hours!

[Voltaire]

You certainly going to win my approval by making me belabor the obvious over and over again.

I want to get you on the record if I'm lynched so you can bear your share of the responsibility for it.

Definitely hope others show up. I'll be gone starting about two hours before the deadline.

Also vote: EFHW. She spoke up for me being town, there's the yuma thing (his early case on her) too. Bad gut feeling from early in the day.

This is me deciding to try out the "ignore conspiracy theories where the scum team is two vets" and then voting as such. Probably the right call, as much as my gut doesn't like it. If I live to tomorrow I'll have learned much, and hopefully 1 scum will be dead.

[Robz888]

You certainly going to win my approval by making me belabor the obvious over and over again.

I want to get you on the record if I'm lynched so you can bear your share of the responsibility for it.

Well, I guess that's consistent with you have a scum read on me. I'm not even voting for you, though, man.

[WalrusMcFishSr]

Madness. Madness and stupidity. --Tywin Lannister

Well not the stupidity part. You guys are a bright lot. But definitely madness.

chairs' actions look a lot less like a bluff now. If it is a gambit, then it's a real dirty one that I find reprehensible. But it's enough for me to unvote.

Give me a minute to wade through the other 12 pages and I'll put down my vote elsewhere.

[Voltaire]

Well, I guess that's consistent with you have a scum read on me. I'm not even voting for you, though, man.

You have clearly implied/stated you have a strong scum read on me. I would not be surprised to see you vote for me or hammer me.

[EFHW]

You certainly going to win my approval by making me belabor the obvious over and over again.

I want to get you on the record if I'm lynched so you can bear your share of the responsibility for it.

Definitely hope others show up. I'll be gone starting about two hours before the deadline.

Also vote: EFHW. She spoke up for me being town, there's the yuma thing (his early case on her) too. Bad gut feeling from early in the day.

This is me deciding to try out the "ignore conspiracy theories where the scum team is two vets" and then voting as such. Probably the right call, as much as my gut doesn't like it. If I live to tomorrow I'll have learned much, and hopefully 1 scum will be dead.

I'm confused by this post.  Did you mean to say I spoke up for you as scum?  And I can't figure out what you are saying about conspiracy

[Voltaire]

I'm confused by this post.  Did you mean to say I spoke up for you as scum?  And I can't figure out what you are saying about conspiracy

Yes, I mean to say maybe you're going for towncred by (correctly) pointing out that there's no reasonable scumVolt narrative here. That's not enough to lynch you, obviously, but it's part of a bigger case against you.

"Conspiracy" just means me trying to avoid thinking "they're all out to get me!" and then voting all the good town players (this is what I was doing in B2B with yuma as the JK, and it turned out yuma was the Doc).

[Robz888]

Well, I guess that's consistent with you have a scum read on me. I'm not even voting for you, though, man.

You have clearly implied/stated you have a strong scum read on me. I would not be surprised to see you vote for me or hammer me.

Correct. I really wouldn't be surprised to see you flip town, though. I just don't have very strong reads.

[chairs]

This whole game is just full of unreadable players. I'm personally sold that one of Yuma or Robz is scum but I'll be damned if I know which.

[Voltaire]

Well, I guess that's consistent with you have a scum read on me. I'm not even voting for you, though, man.

You have clearly implied/stated you have a strong scum read on me. I would not be surprised to see you vote for me or hammer me.

Correct. I really wouldn't be surprised to see you flip town, though. I just don't have very strong reads.

Well, it's a good sign to me that you didn't flip out about me joining you on the EFHW wagon. Last time you did that, you were scum. (and so was EFHW, so...hope?)

[Voltaire]

This whole game is just full of unreadable players. I'm personally sold that one of Yuma or Robz is scum but I'll be damned if I know which.

Deadline is soon. Vote for one of 'em, then, if they're your top 2 (are they?)

[EFHW]

I'm confused by this post.  Did you mean to say I spoke up for you as scum?  And I can't figure out what you are saying about conspiracy

Yes, I mean to say maybe you're going for towncred by (correctly) pointing out that there's no reasonable scumVolt narrative here. That's not enough to lynch you, obviously, but it's part of a bigger case against you.

"Conspiracy" just means me trying to avoid thinking "they're all out to get me!" and then voting all the good town players (this is what I was doing in B2B with yuma as the JK, and it turned out yuma was the Doc).
[/q
The scum narrative is still an issue, if bussing is out.  But rereading, you have been acting r
ally scummy.   Now you think I've been scummy and I'm town.  But what reason is there to see you as town?  I don't want a mislynch.

[EFHW]

Comments in the quote.  Sorry.

[Voltaire]

Comments in the quote.  Sorry.

You'll have to be specific. Tell me where you see me acting scummy.

The sort-of-backdoor-complement that I've not been as "useful" in this game is true, and that's because of the oft-repeated "no strong reads" this game. I've been scumhunting and posting like normal throughout. I wouldn't regret voting for four or five people. That's unusually large, but so be it, that's the sort of D1 we've had.

[yuma]

I'm back. Trying to catch up with everything as soon as possible!

Ummm... I don't think you are back

paging eevee... Although it is 11:00 pm in Finland... although eevee has very unusual sleeping patterns if I remember correctly, but we haven't heard anything from our pokemon friend in a really, really long time.

[Voltaire]

It's certainly unfortunate if I'm biting the hand that feeds me, that's for sure.

[yuma]

I feel like we have had a really good day1. obviously if we hit scum it will be even better, but people saying that they can't form reads is kinda bizarre to me.... really the only player I havne't been able to form a read on is chairs due to low posting... everyone else I am pretty comfortable about and it appears that other players are gradually getting stronger reads as well...

[yuma]

At this point my reads are:

want to lynch: voltaire, faust
willing to lynch: EFHW, chairs
not so interested in: eevee, mail-mi
Won't lynch: robz, walrus

[Voltaire]

I feel like we have had a really good day1.

I think we've had the sort of D1 that will lead to a great D2 but high odds for a crappy lynch D1.

[WalrusMcFishSr]

OK, so here's my take on all this.

I don't want to vote for faust tonight anymore. He's at least generated a lot of material and reads and stuff that can be analyzed later. Plus someone brought up a good point that maybe my initial suspicion of his activity level should be put in the context of M31, when he was Mafia and much lurkier.

My read on Eevee is pretty null at the moment. Maybe leaning on the scummy side, considering he never really answered my question about his case on me, and because of his single vote all day. But it doesn't look like there's support for a lynch there anyway.

EFHW is back to pretty null for me as well. At least she's consistently had a lot to say. I think there are better options.

yuma's style does seem to be quite aggressive...it looks like he has the ability to go "EFHW is scummy! *wall of text* Look how scummy she is! faust is scummy! *wall of text* Look how scummy he is! X is scummy!..." in a rhetorically convincing way. Hopefully that power is not being used for evil, but it still strikes me mostly on the townier side in this game. I like to see how the targets of this probing react, and the fact that he has been investigating diligently seems pro-town to me. I think Robz put it well when he said that wariness is appropriate here. But I do not wish to vote yuma today.

In my opinion Voltaire has come off rather the scummier in these past few pages. I really thought he'd be in the position of receiving a D1 "helpfulness pass". But I've been emphasizing since the beginning that something seems off about Voltaire's play, not as active and exploratory as it should be. Seeing his reaction to this pressure here has not convinced me in the same way that faust's reaction did, for example. So I'm going to vote: Voltaire. That's L-1 I believe.

I would say that Robz seems townier for the time being; acting more like Robz at least. I'd say Robz is acting more like Robz than Voltaire has been acting like Voltaire. And if Voltaire has been tunneling him...Idk, it could be busing, but that doesn't seem super consistent with the idea of scum!Voltaire (which I know Voltaire, it's just an assumption, but so much of any D1 reasoning is predicated on conjecture). I'll say townier read on Robz right now.

mail-mi still seems somewhat suspicious to me. Maybe not quite as much as he was before. I'm not letting that one go yet haha.

chairs I have discussed. And I am me. That's everyone. I guess I am happy with my Voltaire vote. I'll be around until deadline though in case conditions change rapidly.

[EFHW]

Here are things that led me to vote for you.  Like I said, I don't want a mislynch, I'm going with what I see.  Show me something else.

1.  Saying faust was not scummy and 20 posts later saying he was without saying why.

I think it is very bad to find a player scummy for exploring the strategic theory space of a game. I don't agree with faust but I certainly don't find him scummy for posting a lot at the start. The posts haven't been empty, either.

It certainly does stand out, though. I think I am glad you noticed that.

I find myself agreeing with mail-mi *gasp* that both faust and Walrus have been a little scummy so far.

2. supporting chairs and then suddenly saying you're fine with his lynch.

3. Doggedly sticking to a Robz vote without actually reading him as scum, instead saying you don't have any idea how to read him or were trying to get the game moving again. 

Robz has not yet explained his vote on me.

You supplied the reason yourself.

But you did not confirm it until now.

This is all fantastically silly. Do you actually think I'm scum? Because you sometimes play this erratically as town I have to try to figure out if your anti-town, confusing, unhelpful play is just normal or scum Robz. It's very frustrating.

I am however fine with my vote still on you right now. Everyone who was voting for Robz, please come back!

I guess my question to these three people is why does what you say, "1 post" being "anti-town" and "hat hanging" equal scummy?

The alternative is to never vote, ever.

That isn't answering my question...

Yeah, that was phrased poorly. So: I am expecting to find scum in lower posters. I am expecting scum to hang back, ish. I am expecting Robz not to play on D1. I am expecting Robz to sorta play D1 if called out on it. Early on D1, I can see all these things being true at once.

Also, it got Walrus to move to Robz after I voted for him! That's interesting, and likely useful down the road. It's the first time someone has reached three votes, and how else do you get the game moving without wagons? This is not to say I am voting for reactions. They're a happy outcome.

4.  Repeated comments that you distrust yuma, Walrus or me, but never saying why or following up with votes. 

example 1:

I like both the Walrus and EFHW wagons/cases. I am trying to decide which one I want to join.

 
You never voted for either of us (until this afternoon).

example 2:

OK, I think I can narrow down the lynch pool a bit more right now. Right off the bat I'm going to eliminate myself. Cool? Cool.  [clip....]

I have a secret confession to make. I think I actually really really really like the Walrus case.

Though I also like my vote on Robz still, who is voting for chairs, for what I perceive as very weak reasons.

Here you do give a reason for voting Robz - weak case on chairs, but you never come back to it. 

example 3:

(from me)
Am I the only one who finds this suspicious (manufactured b/c Eevee knows Robz well)?  I know Voltaire agreed w/me that Robz would indeed say that as scum.

Yes, and I still agree with you. Yuma (CAUTION: Crazy assumptions to follow), EFHW is saying that Eevee is defending Robz for towncred, because he knows Robz will flip town. While the rest of us, not knowing Robz's alignment, can easily see the play that Eevee says is town as scum.

Or I could go with my gut. Walrus/yuma scumteam.

5.  There are also comments suggesting distrust without saying it, like you are trying to drop in a negative comment without seeming to accuse - the same thing Walrus thought I was doing.

example 1:

Fascinating unusual behavior by yuma, as far as I can tell, but I see no reason to be concerned by it right now.

example 2:

Yuma is starting to behave a little more clearly like town!yuma, I think, so I am going to try to push those other scenarios out of my head and re-evaluate today.

I see there have been quite a few posts while I've been typing/looking for quotes.  I'm not caught up with those, just so you know.