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[ashersky]

Can we get a current vote count?

[mail-mi]

Can we get a current vote count?

It's Thursday, so I'll do one as soon as (if) I have access to a computer.

[liopoil]

okay, the abcd thing. To do this I'll reread faust and sudgy:

sudgy first, faust in next post:

My vote was mainly for pressure, and Robz has had time to respond, so Unvote.

this is pretty ordinary for town!sudgy. I seem to remember someone mentioning this as a point against him, but he has done this multiple times before.

I realized, we can rule out all people saying the doc claiming is good of being the doc...

1.  Why do you think this?
2.  Why did you say it?

I actually wasn't sure if it was true, but I thought a way better way to get interactions was to say something controversial and see who would jump on it.  See:

I realized, we can rule out all people saying the doc claiming is good of being the doc...

That's great! Let's share it with all the scum!

Vote: sudgy

And my plan worked perfectly.  Vote: faust

- saying that you can rule out the people in favor of doc claiming is not scummy. I disagree with saying it though, as a person who opposed a doctor claim. However, sudgy liked the idea of doc claiming, and so it's totally fine for him to narrow the pool of people who could be the doctor if he wants. And also, scum surely figured this out anyway, so it likely had no effect. AND even if it was a catastrophic thing to say, I think he would be LESS likely to say this as scum. So I disagree with faust's vote.

- I'm on the fence on sudgy's vote. Okay, saying something to gauge reactions, I can understand that. However, faust is not necessarily scummy for voting sudgy over that. I think faust made the wrong choice in voting over that, and sudgy, if he is town, KNOWS that faust made the wrong choice. However, I am uncertain that this makes faust more likely to be scum as of now. I'll decide that when I read faust.

I just reread faust, and not much sticks out (just doc talk, robz talk, and our "debacle", to use someone else's language ()).  I reread him in NMIV too, and he seemed to be trying to push discussion more there than here, which brings up his scumminess a bit.

Also, there's this:

Voltaire - doc. Do not lynch, do not kill.

Why are you talking about "do not kill"?  Informing the other scum team not to kill him?

Err... I'm informing all scum teams not to kill him? They are all scumhunting in a way, so maybe they find reads lists helpful to find opposing scum. If I were scum, why would I want to inform the other scum team of anything? They would be a bigger threat to me than town.

When I first read it, something felt weird about it but I didn't worry about it.  Now that I think about it more, it -could- be him covering a scumslip.  I don't think so, but it almost looks like it.  The way he says things (like his "Err...") seem to be more clumsy, which would make it seem more genuine.

I feel like this is confirmation bias. He said himself that nothing stood out for them, but then he posted this anyway. And the arguement about the "Err..." seems really to be a stretch to me.

so, I lean town on sudgy, because of him playing like he usually does as town, and because there's a wagon on him that I disagree with. (is there a wagon? was there a wagon? anyway, I know he's been a top suspect).

[liopoil]

Unvote.

The 50% of RVS was actually wanting to see ashersky's reaction.  His reaction seemed towny enough to me.

example from banker's beware of town!sudgy voting for reactions.

[sudgy]

Lio: The Er... thing was townpoints for him, not scumpoints.

And, a lot of my read on faust is not his initial voting me, but for things afterwards.

[liopoil]

Lio: The Er... thing was townpoints for him, not scumpoints.

And, a lot of my read on faust is not his initial voting me, but for things afterwards.

oh wow, reading fail. I kinda read the first bit about covering for scumslip, then skimmed, then "Err..." and clumsy mentioned...

[Robz888]

I am surprised no one has reacted to my point yet:

Wow, okay, I just totally missed this--and all comentary on this--until now. Makes me think I am reading really lazily.

I tried to put together some thoughts on the players so far. It's hard. The strange thing about this game is everyone has an incentive to scumhunt, but that at the same time makes it harder to scumhunt. So all I got is this:

Voltaire - doc. Do not lynch, do not kill.
ashersky - town read for previously explained reasons.
Voltgloss - helps keeping the game moving, do not want to lynch
Robz - always seems scummy to me, and here as well. He behaved differently from what I expected of him in this game, but I can't evaluate what that means yet.
sudgy - when we hadn't yet decided if the doctor should claim, he was trying to POE the doctor. Scum read.

"Do not lynch, do not kill." I read this as his advice to himself, which WOULD indicate that he is scum. It could be as simple as, these are private notes he kept for himself, and he didn't realize he hadn't properly santized them.

I mean there's no context to me where "Do not lynch, do no kill" makes any sense, apart from the one where faust is scum.

I don't think he meant it as a coded message to the other team though.

[ashersky]

Clearly I already agree with you, given where my vote has been all this time.

It's a scum slip, to me.  Not much else to say.

[Archetype]

Alright. I pick B: Town/Scum. Mostly because it's the most likely thing for there to be. I would not mind lynching from one of these two, but I prefer faust since he's acting fairly similar to how he did in Modern Community

Vote: faust since NHS will most likely be replaced.

[Archetype]

I am surprised no one has reacted to my point yet:

Wow, okay, I just totally missed this--and all comentary on this--until now. Makes me think I am reading really lazily.

I tried to put together some thoughts on the players so far. It's hard. The strange thing about this game is everyone has an incentive to scumhunt, but that at the same time makes it harder to scumhunt. So all I got is this:

Voltaire - doc. Do not lynch, do not kill.
ashersky - town read for previously explained reasons.
Voltgloss - helps keeping the game moving, do not want to lynch
Robz - always seems scummy to me, and here as well. He behaved differently from what I expected of him in this game, but I can't evaluate what that means yet.
sudgy - when we hadn't yet decided if the doctor should claim, he was trying to POE the doctor. Scum read.

"Do not lynch, do not kill." I read this as his advice to himself, which WOULD indicate that he is scum. It could be as simple as, these are private notes he kept for himself, and he didn't realize he hadn't properly santized them.

I mean there's no context to me where "Do not lynch, do no kill" makes any sense, apart from the one where faust is scum.

I don't think he meant it as a coded message to the other team though.

I agree with you. I think the "It's for the other team" is a really bad cover up.

[2.71828.....]

I am surprised no one has reacted to my point yet:

Wow, okay, I just totally missed this--and all comentary on this--until now. Makes me think I am reading really lazily.

I tried to put together some thoughts on the players so far. It's hard. The strange thing about this game is everyone has an incentive to scumhunt, but that at the same time makes it harder to scumhunt. So all I got is this:

Voltaire - doc. Do not lynch, do not kill.
ashersky - town read for previously explained reasons.
Voltgloss - helps keeping the game moving, do not want to lynch
Robz - always seems scummy to me, and here as well. He behaved differently from what I expected of him in this game, but I can't evaluate what that means yet.
sudgy - when we hadn't yet decided if the doctor should claim, he was trying to POE the doctor. Scum read.

"Do not lynch, do not kill." I read this as his advice to himself, which WOULD indicate that he is scum. It could be as simple as, these are private notes he kept for himself, and he didn't realize he hadn't properly santized them.

I mean there's no context to me where "Do not lynch, do no kill" makes any sense, apart from the one where faust is scum.

I don't think he meant it as a coded message to the other team though.

Another reading of "Do not kill" is that it is a (very) poorly worded summary of the aforementioned reasons that scum are not likely to kill the revealed doctor N1.  Now what becomes suspicious is his explanation of the statement. 

Err... I'm informing all scum teams not to kill him

I think I should inform all scum teams not to kill me.  maybe that is a useful thing to do (I think not).  Telling scum teams what to do is pretty sketchy.

I am not quite at a point to vote for Faust yet, but I am now a lot more open to option D, and since I think they both could be scum I think I will unvote

Also, nice of Archetype to show up and vote for the most popular wagon of the time with his explanation being

Alright. I pick B: Town/Scum. Mostly because it's the most likely thing for there to be. I would not mind lynching from one of these two, but I prefer faust since he's acting fairly similar to how he did in Modern Community

Vote: faust since NHS will most likely be replaced.

Well, I haven't read Modern Community, and I need more than that from a lurker before I see a vote.  So for now, vote: Archetype

[ashersky]

The last official vote count was the edited one in #351 back like six pages.  Here's an unofficial update.

faust (5): ashersky, Voltgloss, sudgy, Robz888, Archetype
NHSederholm (1): Eevee
sudgy (1): faust
Voltgloss (1): yuma
Archetype (1): Voltaire

Not Voting (4): liopoil, NHSederholm, Gveoniz, 2.7

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch

Day 1 ends Monday November 11 at 8ish FT.

[2.71828.....]

The last official vote count was the edited one in #351 back like six pages.  Here's an unofficial update.

faust (5): ashersky, Voltgloss, sudgy, Robz888, Archetype
NHSederholm (1): Eevee
sudgy (1): faust
Voltgloss (1): yuma
Archetype (1): Voltaire

Not Voting (4): liopoil, NHSederholm, Gveoniz, 2.7

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch

Day 1 ends Monday November 11 at 8ish FT.

You missed my vote for archetype.  And a real L-2  (the Robz thing doesn't count as it was made up with a majority of RVS)

[2.71828.....]

If we are doing a (unofficial but (almost) accurate) vote count might as well have a (unofficial but (definitely) accurate) post count

------------

ashersky Voltgloss Robz888 Voltaire 2.71828..... Yuma faust sudgy Eevee liopoil Gveoniz Archetype NHSederholm

67 55 44 43 30 28 24 16 16 15 9 8 1

[2.71828.....]

The last official vote count was the edited one in #351 back like six pages.  Here's an unofficial update.

faust (5): ashersky, Voltgloss, sudgy, Robz888, Archetype
NHSederholm (1): Eevee
sudgy (1): faust
Voltgloss (1): yuma
Archetype (1): Voltaire

Not Voting (4): liopoil, NHSederholm, Gveoniz, 2.7

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch

Day 1 ends Monday November 11 at 8ish FT.

You missed my vote for archetype.  And a real L-2  (the Robz thing doesn't count as it was made up with a majority of RVS)

I also like that I am voting with the doctor.  (regardless of whether or not his vote was entirely serious)

[yuma]

catching up. will post as I see something worth commenting on

[yuma]

So vote: voltgloss for voting faust for finding something scummy that there should be no reason to find scummy.

Why do you say "there should be no reason to find [faust] scummy"?

Because I don't see how what you are accusing faust of doing is scummy. He voted for someone for saying something that he perceived to be scummy. It was a very unusual statement by sudgy and I have no problem with faust voting him for it. None. Especially at the stage of the game we were then in.

I guess the counter argument could be made that I am voting you for voting someone for saying something that you perceived to be scummy. But at this point the stage of the game has changed. We have moved from basic reactions and votes to a layered game. And this is where I think the votes start to actually start to mean so much more... Like I said I think someone directly involved in the early events was mafia. I don't think it is either of the two original players (I think both are likely town) and I have more of a town read on ash, so I am suspectful of you.

[yuma]

Kinda... it is more that I expect scum to be somehow involved in this whole exchange... I don't see what sudgy did to be scummy nor do I see how faust reacted to be scummy and I have more of a town read on you than voltgloss from other posts and reads.

So yeah what you said is correct to an extent, but it is more that I don't think scum ignores this situation and I see voltgloss's reaction as the one to be most likely to be from scum.

I agree with you that scum is likely involved in this exchange. 

How about the L-2 wagon on Robz?  Do you think scum was likely involved in that exchange as well?

Probably but that was so full of RVS that it isn't really worth analyzing for anything worthwhile. Now if we had had people start voting the people that voted for Robz then it might be worth looking into a bit more, but we never really reached that point...

[yuma]

I would like everyone, in their next post, to summarize (or state for the first time) their opinion on faust/sudgy. Do you think they are most likely:

A) town / town
B) town / scum
C) scum / scum (bussing)
D) scum / scum (dif. teams)

A) town/town I think is the most likely.

[yuma]

So I think It would be B >  D > A > C. But I am not sure right now.

This blows my mind. I can see B being before A. But no way should D be before A. No way unless Gveoniz knows something that we don't.

vote: Gveo. I am generally with Robz that I don't like lynching newer players, but this really makes me wonder (and I should mention that Gveo has played one game already, so isn't technically a true newbie)

[2.71828.....]

I have ABCD statements from: Voltgloss, faust, 2.7, Gveoniz, Robz, sudgy, and Eevee.

I still need them from: liopoil, Archetype, ashersky, Yuma, NHSederholm

Spoiler alert: I'd like us to lynch a lurker. Freakin' post, people.

Archetype and liopoil are mega lurking.

Gveoniz hasn't posted much, but he has had decent content in his posts.  Archetype on the other, hasn't posted much, and hasn't had much content

[yuma]

Also, there's this:

Voltaire - doc. Do not lynch, do not kill.

Why are you talking about "do not kill"?  Informing the other scum team not to kill him?

Err... I'm informing all scum teams not to kill him? They are all scumhunting in a way, so maybe they find reads lists helpful to find opposing scum. If I were scum, why would I want to inform the other scum team of anything? They would be a bigger threat to me than town.

When I first read it, something felt weird about it but I didn't worry about it.  Now that I think about it more, it -could- be him covering a scumslip.  I don't think so, but it almost looks like it.  The way he says things (like his "Err...") seem to be more clumsy, which would make it seem more genuine.

Yeah, this.  I remember thinking this was super bad when it happened, but we moved on.  I'm glad you re-mentioned it.

I'm already voting faust, though.

Do you seriously think faust, as scum, typed out the words "do not kill" and posted them?

In all honesty when I saw this I thought it was a language mistake. Faust is from Germany yes? His grammar is generally pretty good (as is almost all of our non-native-English speaking players) but sometimes makes mistakes. I thought this was one of them which basically meant to be said "isn't going to be killed" which is probably true as it is the whole premise for why we had the doc claim.

[Archetype]

Also, there's this:

Voltaire - doc. Do not lynch, do not kill.

Why are you talking about "do not kill"?  Informing the other scum team not to kill him?

Err... I'm informing all scum teams not to kill him? They are all scumhunting in a way, so maybe they find reads lists helpful to find opposing scum. If I were scum, why would I want to inform the other scum team of anything? They would be a bigger threat to me than town.

When I first read it, something felt weird about it but I didn't worry about it.  Now that I think about it more, it -could- be him covering a scumslip.  I don't think so, but it almost looks like it.  The way he says things (like his "Err...") seem to be more clumsy, which would make it seem more genuine.

Yeah, this.  I remember thinking this was super bad when it happened, but we moved on.  I'm glad you re-mentioned it.

I'm already voting faust, though.

Do you seriously think faust, as scum, typed out the words "do not kill" and posted them?

In all honesty when I saw this I thought it was a language mistake. Faust is from Germany yes? His grammar is generally pretty good (as is almost all of our non-native-English speaking players) but sometimes makes mistakes. I thought this was one of them which basically meant to be said "isn't going to be killed" which is probably true as it is the whole premise for why we had the doc claim.

Sadly, this is a great point.  Or it's yuma defending his scumbuddy. Hm.

[liopoil]

faust:

- was on fence regarding doctor claim

NOT happy with the doc claim. He'll be killed as soon as we get our first correct lynch in. But you guys didn't even bother listening to me. I am again unhappy that I can't be around when the important discussions happen...

A bit odd considering he did not express a strong opinion.

I realized, we can rule out all people saying the doc claiming is good of being the doc...

That's great! Let's share it with all the scum!

Vote: sudgy

So I said I'd make up my mind about this in my post about sudgy. There I explained why I disagree with this vote. I think that this does lean slightly scummy because it's an easy vote to hide behind. Also it's a good example of voting over something anti-town, not something scummy.

Voltaire - doc. Do not lynch, do not kill.

Here's the thing everyone is getting all excited about it seems. Most likely yet another "scumslip" I think. And by that I mean not-a-scumslip. I see Yuma pointed out it could be just a grammatical mistake from english not being his first language. That's possible, but I think it could also just be emphasizing that voltaire is one of the good guys, so we should not kill him and stuff. lynching is killing, after all. So null, <i>maybe</i> scummy.

I realized, we can rule out all people saying the doc claiming is good of being the doc...

That's great! Let's share it with all the scum!

Vote: sudgy

And my plan worked perfectly.  Vote: faust

Do I read this correctly? You said something scummy so you can find people scummy for pointing out it was scummy? Now, that's a great scumhunting scheme.

Is a fair point, except replace "You said something scummy..." with "you said something controversial..." Sudgy already said this I think.

So, overall, I think faust is scummier than sudgy. I lean scum on him actually. is he my lynch of choice? maybe, I don't know yet.

So to answer the abcd question.....

from my perspective, players not voltaire/liopoil have a 4/11 chance of being scum, that's about 36%. chance that both are town is actually only 40.5%. Add a scumread on faust, and it is certainly more likely that one is scum than both are town. If both are town, it's far more likely that they are on different teams, for obvious reasons. and both are town is more likely than both are scum for sure too. so B > A > D > C. (I think I got the letters right)

[liopoil]

So I think It would be B >  D > A > C. But I am not sure right now.

This blows my mind. I can see B being before A. But no way should D be before A. No way unless Gveoniz knows something that we don't.

vote: Gveo. I am generally with Robz that I don't like lynching newer players, but this really makes me wonder (and I should mention that Gveo has played one game already, so isn't technically a true newbie)

I agree that there's no way that it's more likely that both are scum on different teams than both being town. However, I think it's probably the case that Gveoniz either didn't think about how both being scum is inherently less likely because there are many fewer scum, or got the letters wrong or something. Or is just too confident in his reads. I don't know, but you get the point. Which is that I don't see why it makes him more likely to be scum.