Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Gveoniz]

unvote, RVS should not interferes with real wagons.

And I don't really understand the sudgy thing, and am also unable to find faust scummy for this. Need to study that further.

[Eevee]

Yeah, I dont get any read on sudgy (people say things like that, usually without any grand plan.. but it's natural to want to explain it that way) and faust (understandable vote, especially if you don't consider sudgy saying what he did something that happens in almost every game by someone).

[2.71828.....]

More thoughts on Sudgy voting (dealing with the L-2 "wagon" that came up on Robz)

To put Robz at L-2 we have Sudgy:
Reply #213 on: November 05, 2013, 11:03:47 am

E has been pretty useful, so I'll move to Vote: Robz888.

And the first to remove their vote, ending the "wagon" is sudgy:
Reply #231 on: November 05, 2013, 01:05:52 pm

My vote was mainly for pressure, and Robz has had time to respond, so Unvote.

A mere 17 posts  and almost 2 hours between the sudgy's self-proclaimed "pressure" vote and the recall when "sufficient time had elapsed for Robz to respond". 

These are a few of the posts that occured during that time:

My vote is part-RVS, part-ongoing-game-reasons. Sorry that I can't say anything else.

Obi Wan Kenobi was pretty smart. Siths were the mafia of star wars, and Robz's play matches the sith narrative Obi Wan proposed to the dot!

but Robz made such a bold claim that I want to hear more from him, rather than his agreement with others

and the only thing we get from Robz during that time is

Well my statement wasn't a serious statement...

So Faust was RVS, with something else that he never talked about.  maybe this:

Robz - always seems scummy to me, and here as well. He behaved differently from what I expected of him in this game, but I can't evaluate what that means yet.

I definitely read Eevee as a RVS vote having a bit of fun with the Star Wars quote, and I asked for further explanation from Robz, which was not given except to say the statement was not serious.


Whatever the case, I don't buy the "Robz has had time to respond" line.  Sure, I can agree that it was a pressure vote, but to be the first one to leave after almost no additional content is interesting.  Not enough to make me read sudgy as scummy, but then combined with the other stuff it adds up.  I am content with my sudgy vote for now.

[Voltaire]

Alright everybody, you'll be seeing a lot more of me (real-world) today. Promise.

A reminder to my 8 fellow town players - you have better reads than I do, mathematically. You're all looking for 4 scum in 11. I'm looking for 4 scum in 12.

A reminder to the 4 scum players - you have better odds of lynching the other team now that I claimed. You're looking for 2 scum in 10. Sorry for taking our PR off the table. 

I would like everyone, in their next post, to summarize (or state for the first time) their opinion on faust/sudgy. Do you think they are most likely:

A) town / town
B) town / scum
C) scum / scum (bussing)
D) scum / scum (dif. teams)

[Voltgloss]

I would like everyone, in their next post, to summarize (or state for the first time) their opinion on faust/sudgy. Do you think they are most likely:

A) town / town
B) town / scum
C) scum / scum (bussing)
D) scum / scum (dif. teams)

B, though D is possible.  I plan to revisit that question after I've had a chance to read scum!sudgy in LOTR 1. 

[Voltaire]

Opinions about whether or not the doctor should claim, prior to my claim:

Claim D1
ashersky
yuma
Voltaire
sudgy
Gveoniz
Eevee (initially anti-claim)
Robz

Claim D2
Archetype

Anti-claim
liopoil
2.7

Uncertain
Voltgloss
faust (initially pro-claim)

No opinion expressed
NHS

[faust]

Well, ignoring everything sudgy has said, he has a 4/11 chance to be scum and a 7/11 chance to be town.

The question now is: Is sudgy's behaviour scummy enough to push him over the 50% mark (and thus make scenario B more likely than A)? It's not even so much that sudgy wanted to POE the doctor - I could see that as a mistake - but the way he justified it afterwards. Saying something "controversial" to catch scum? How does that work? Doesn't town react equally to controversial statements? And sudgy refused to answer further questions about his plan, so this could just be something he made up after being called out and then realized it doesn't work.

Overall, I'm generally not super-confident in my reads, but I think sudgy has something like a 60% chance to be scum. So I find B a little more likely than A.

[2.71828.....]

Well, ignoring everything sudgy has said, he has a 4/11 chance to be scum and a 7/11 chance to be town.

The question now is: Is sudgy's behaviour scummy enough to push him over the 50% mark (and thus make scenario B more likely than A)? It's not even so much that sudgy wanted to POE the doctor - I could see that as a mistake - but the way he justified it afterwards. Saying something "controversial" to catch scum? How does that work? Doesn't town react equally to controversial statements? And sudgy refused to answer further questions about his plan, so this could just be something he made up after being called out and then realized it doesn't work.

Overall, I'm generally not super-confident in my reads, but I think sudgy has something like a 60% chance to be scum. So I find B a little more likely than A.

I was hoping you would go for C or D. 

I agree that B is the most likely option, and I am currently leaning in the direction of Sudgy being the scum half of the equation.

[2.71828.....]

Opinions about whether or not the doctor should claim, prior to my claim:

Claim D1
ashersky
yuma
Voltaire
sudgy
Gveoniz
Eevee (initially anti-claim)
Robz

Claim D2
Archetype

Anti-claim
liopoil
2.7

Uncertain
Voltgloss
faust (initially pro-claim)

No opinion expressed
NHS

Two posts before your claim I came out in favor of doctor claiming, so I am not sure why I am grouped with anti-claim.  Pretty scummy to forget that....oh wait....you're the doctor

[Voltaire]

Two posts before your claim I came out in favor of doctor claiming, so I am not sure why I am grouped with anti-claim.  Pretty scummy to forget that....oh wait....you're the doctor

You're right.

(Updated) Opinions about whether or not the doctor should claim, prior to my claim:

Claim D1
ashersky
yuma
Voltaire
sudgy
Gveoniz
Eevee (initially anti-claim)
Robz
2.7 (initially anti-claim)

Claim D2
Archetype

Anti-claim
liopoil

Uncertain
Voltgloss
faust (initially pro-claim)

No opinion expressed
NHS

[Voltaire]

Post count, from start of game to doctor claim

37 ashersky
31 Voltgloss
24 yuma
17 2.7...
14 Voltaire
13 Robz
9 Eevee
8 liopoil
7 faust
5 sudgy
4 Archetype
2 Gveoniz
1 NHS

[Gveoniz]

Two posts before your claim I came out in favor of doctor claiming, so I am not sure why I am grouped with anti-claim.  Pretty scummy to forget that....oh wait....you're the doctor

You're right.

(Updated) Opinions about whether or not the doctor should claim, prior to my claim:

Claim D1
ashersky
yuma
Voltaire
sudgy
Gveoniz
Eevee (initially anti-claim)
Robz
2.7 (initially anti-claim)

Claim D2
Archetype

Anti-claim
liopoil

Uncertain
Voltgloss
faust (initially pro-claim)

No opinion expressed
NHS

I was actually quite uncertain before your claim, expressing that it seems good but needed to think about it more. If it read like it is pro-claim it is fine though, I was leaning towards claiming anyway.

reference:

Vote: 2.71828.....  for being irrational, it is really unhelpful to the town.

Just returned home, it seems that a lots happened during my local day, but on the matter of doctor claiming, it seems good to to me, but I need some more time to think about it, if my opinion in this theory talk is valuable.

btw, Vote: faust

-------------------------------------

I am trying to sort out the sudgy / faust issue right now. I am thinking about B > D > A > C. But I cannot be sure, I will see if I can organize and post my thinking soon.

[Voltaire]

between sudgy and faust, I am quite sure sudgy is and should come off as the scummier one.

Why?

[Voltaire]

So sudgy, you've been around, but didn't bother answering this:

I don't think what I said was scummy, but that it was controversial.

Okay then, why do you think it's scummy to react to a controversial statement?

sudgy, you should answer this.

[Voltaire]

faust, do you stand by your scummy opinion of Robz? If so, is it still for the reason(s) you can't explain? (just say yes or no about that)

It has now been 24 hours since NHS was prodded. 24 more hours from now, he's eligible for replacement in my understanding of the rules. mods, pretty-please line up a replacement for him in case it is needed? And NHS, if you're reading this and come back, welcome back! This statement is nothing personal, just trying to make sure we have a complete team here and we're glad to have you!

[faust]

faust, do you stand by your scummy opinion of Robz? If so, is it still for the reason(s) you can't explain? (just say yes or no about that)

Yes, I am actually more convinced now that Robz is scum than I was before. Yes, I still can't explain.

[Voltgloss]

(Updated) Opinions about whether or not the doctor should claim, prior to my claim:

Claim D1
ashersky
yuma
Voltaire
sudgy
Gveoniz
Eevee (initially anti-claim)
Robz
2.7 (initially anti-claim)

Claim D2
Archetype

Anti-claim
liopoil

Uncertain
Voltgloss
faust (initially pro-claim)

No opinion expressed
NHS

Voltaire, I'd say I was "initially anti-claim" and then had moved to uncertain by the time you claimed. 

[Robz888]

I'll make a deal with you:  you read LOTR2 sudgy, and I'll read LOTR1 sudgy.  Sound good?  You only have one day of activity to read while I have three, so you've got the easier end of the bargain. 

Actually, LOTR1 is probably a good game for us all to look over, being a recent multiball game with two scumteams of two players each.

Alright I'll do it.

[Robz888]

Whatever the case, I don't buy the "Robz has had time to respond" line.  Sure, I can agree that it was a pressure vote, but to be the first one to leave after almost no additional content is interesting.  Not enough to make me read sudgy as scummy, but then combined with the other stuff it adds up.  I am content with my sudgy vote for now.

Basically I agree.

I just do't really buy sudgy's explanation for why he voted/unvoted me. It looked to me like, "Hey, am I going to be in trouble for this? Uh oh, better unvote."

It's not an ironclad case or anything, but I think it's stronger than like this convoluted trap for faust. Sudgy did something he knew would be seen as scummy, faust said it was scummy, therefore faust is scum? I don't see it.

[Robz888]

I would like everyone, in their next post, to summarize (or state for the first time) their opinion on faust/sudgy. Do you think they are most likely:

A) town / town
B) town / scum
C) scum / scum (bussing)
D) scum / scum (dif. teams)

Well, (B), because I find sudy generally scummiest and faust probably pretty null.

(A) also entirely strong possibility.

(D) seems like wishful thinking.

(C) seems fairly impossible.

[Gveoniz]

I think reads before the controversial statement/plan is pretty neutral. With robz wagon being the most notable. I can totally understand 2.71828 's start being a reference and jokey(despite not having seen star war), and robz's original speech ("oppose plan = scum") also being kind of jokey (I think ash is famous for his D1 plans).But I do not see why were  there so many people jumping on it, even if I were scum I would not expect it to go through. Perhaps 2.71828's reference is funny enough to get people to join.

Then there is the "controversial statement" which I didn't understand(and later realize that it is not meant to be fully understood). And I also do not know what do faust's initial reaction to it means.

Later on sudgy say that the statement is part of a plan, I cannot sense that everything is pre-planed as said though,(it is possible that sudgy just did a good job executing his plan) nor do I think that the plan can really find scum or the found one would be scum. May be I just generally do not like fishing / trap (if I actually understand them correctly). Faust's reaction may not be the towniest, but reasonable for town.

So I think It would be B >  D > A > C. But I am not sure right now.

I am just do not find that sudgy's behavior is town enough. And not so sure on faust, leaning town. therefore B and D.
It is totally possible for it to be a mistake and both would be town.
I don't think of bussing in this situration, but it is probably due to the lack of experience dealing with it, I can't remember reading notable bussing somewhere else either.

[Voltgloss]

faust, do you stand by your scummy opinion of Robz? If so, is it still for the reason(s) you can't explain? (just say yes or no about that)

Yes, I am actually more convinced now that Robz is scum than I was before. Yes, I still can't explain.

Huh.  I'm surprised by this.  I thought I understood what faust was thinking re: Robz, but apparently not.

[Voltgloss]

Unofficial vote count:

faust (3): sudgy, ashersky, Voltgloss
NHSederholm (2): Eevee, Archetype
sudgy (3): faust, Robz888, 2.71828.....
Archetype (1): Voltaire
Voltgloss (1): yuma

Not Voting (3): liopoil, NHSederholm, Gveoniz

[Voltaire]

faust, do you stand by your scummy opinion of Robz? If so, is it still for the reason(s) you can't explain? (just say yes or no about that)

Yes, I am actually more convinced now that Robz is scum than I was before. Yes, I still can't explain.

Huh.  I'm surprised by this.  I thought I understood what faust was thinking re: Robz, but apparently not.

Agreed, btw.

[faust]

faust, do you stand by your scummy opinion of Robz? If so, is it still for the reason(s) you can't explain? (just say yes or no about that)

Yes, I am actually more convinced now that Robz is scum than I was before. Yes, I still can't explain.

Huh.  I'm surprised by this.  I thought I understood what faust was thinking re: Robz, but apparently not.

Agreed, btw.

I'm not exactly sure what the policy towards ongoing games is. Can I say stuff about Robz in M34, as we're both dead there?