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[ashersky]

I agree with yuma.  This is a representation of murder and mayhem, right?  No half-wins.

I think of a shared victory as a truce between the bad guys.  So they both win.  But no half-wins.

[mail-mi]

If the  community would like to come up with a default  then I will gladly use it.

[liopoil]

fire and ice have a truce???

hopefully this won't be neccessary and town will win on D2

(see guys, I'm already aligned with town!)

[yuma]

If the  community would like to come up with a default  then I will gladly use it.

ash and I are currently using this in Modern Community:

--If players from two or more non-Town factions exist, and are alive in an end-game scenario, a "Happily Ever After Win" will be awarded to those factions only.

I think both ash and I agree that this HAE win would be treated as a real win and not a "tie."

[yuma]

fire and ice have a truce???

Sure! "Steam Wins!

[mail-mi]

Bump?

[mail-mi]

Should the scum PMs have the player name of the teammate?

That'll be in the QT, and if they can't access it, they can just PM me and I'll tell them

[Gveoniz]

/tag
I am interested, but I don't think I can handle a game until a month later.

[mail-mi]

I agree with yuma.  This is a representation of murder and mayhem, right?  No half-wins.

I think of a shared victory as a truce between the bad guys.  So they both win.  But no half-wins.

You see, the thing I'm scared about is what almost happened at the end of WWTWDP: Yuma the SK was like "Hey mafia, let's have a truce and kill off mail-mi and nkirbit and win together!" I don't want that to happen. But I don't want town to win, and I don't want it to be "Everyone loses!". I think I'll do something with the flavor names.

[yuma]

I agree with yuma.  This is a representation of murder and mayhem, right?  No half-wins.

I think of a shared victory as a truce between the bad guys.  So they both win.  But no half-wins.

You see, the thing I'm scared about is what almost happened at the end of WWTWDP: Yuma the SK was like "Hey mafia, let's have a truce and kill off mail-mi and nkirbit and win together!" I don't want that to happen. But I don't want town to win, and I don't want it to be "Everyone loses!". I think I'll do something with the flavor names.

That is a valid concern. If you think about it generally each faction has a 33% chance of winning. What ashersky and I are suggesting basically gives fire and ice a ~35% chance each and town only a 30% chance. percentages are just kinda made up there. But if you allow town to win that would give town a 36% chance and fire and ice only 32% each. So I guess there has to be some give and take.

So many the question is thus: who has the advantage if things are left alone. Does town really have a 33% chance of winning? Or is it actually closer to 40%. If so, giving scum the change to win together might even things out... Or does town have more like a 30% chance. Then maybe town needs a buff to compensate for mafia's chance to win together?

Make sense?

Or maybe the best route to go is the 0.5 win.

Ideally it won't matter, but there is a chance it might.

[mail-mi]

I agree with yuma.  This is a representation of murder and mayhem, right?  No half-wins.

I think of a shared victory as a truce between the bad guys.  So they both win.  But no half-wins.

You see, the thing I'm scared about is what almost happened at the end of WWTWDP: Yuma the SK was like "Hey mafia, let's have a truce and kill off mail-mi and nkirbit and win together!" I don't want that to happen. But I don't want town to win, and I don't want it to be "Everyone loses!". I think I'll do something with the flavor names.

That is a valid concern. If you think about it generally each faction has a 33% chance of winning. What ashersky and I are suggesting basically gives fire and ice a ~35% chance each and town only a 30% chance. percentages are just kinda made up there. But if you allow town to win that would give town a 36% chance and fire and ice only 32% each. So I guess there has to be some give and take.

So many the question is thus: who has the advantage if things are left alone. Does town really have a 33% chance of winning? Or is it actually closer to 40%. If so, giving scum the change to win together might even things out... Or does town have more like a 30% chance. Then maybe town needs a buff to compensate for mafia's chance to win together?

Make sense?

Or maybe the best route to go is the 0.5 win.

Ideally it won't matter, but there is a chance it might.

Check the second post.

[yuma]

-If there are only 1 Ice mafia goon and 1 Fire mafia goon left alive at the end of the game, this is what will happen:

If it's Big Baby and Big Al, Fire mafia wins.
If it's Big Baby and Stinky Pete, Ice mafia wins.
If it's Lot's O' Huggin' Bear and Big Al, Ice mafia wins
If it's Lot's O' Huggin' Bear and Stinky Pete, Fire mafia wins.

This, I think, is brilliant! I really like this.

[yuma]

One other point I wanted to suggest for this game was to suggest randomize the VT and "fake claim" flavor.

That is to say give Mafia the same chance of receiving "woody" or "Buzz Lightyear" as any other townie. Otherwise players that claim more minor characters "potato head" or "slinky dog" are going to be more suspicious than players that would claim "buzz" or "woody."

[ashersky]

I'm sad to see no Sid in this game.  But I guess you went with TS2 and TS3 villains, which is cool.

This makes me more excited for my Monsters U game.

[mail-mi]

One other point I wanted to suggest for this game was to suggest randomize the VT and "fake claim" flavor.

That is to say give Mafia the same chance of receiving "woody" or "Buzz Lightyear" as any other townie. Otherwise players that claim more minor characters "potato head" or "slinky dog" are going to be more suspicious than players that would claim "buzz" or "woody."

I did this already.

[liopoil]

I agree with yuma.  This is a representation of murder and mayhem, right?  No half-wins.

I think of a shared victory as a truce between the bad guys.  So they both win.  But no half-wins.

You see, the thing I'm scared about is what almost happened at the end of WWTWDP: Yuma the SK was like "Hey mafia, let's have a truce and kill off mail-mi and nkirbit and win together!" I don't want that to happen. But I don't want town to win, and I don't want it to be "Everyone loses!". I think I'll do something with the flavor names.

That is a valid concern. If you think about it generally each faction has a 33% chance of winning. What ashersky and I are suggesting basically gives fire and ice a ~35% chance each and town only a 30% chance. percentages are just kinda made up there. But if you allow town to win that would give town a 36% chance and fire and ice only 32% each. So I guess there has to be some give and take.

So many the question is thus: who has the advantage if things are left alone. Does town really have a 33% chance of winning? Or is it actually closer to 40%. If so, giving scum the change to win together might even things out... Or does town have more like a 30% chance. Then maybe town needs a buff to compensate for mafia's chance to win together?

Make sense?

Or maybe the best route to go is the 0.5 win.

Ideally it won't matter, but there is a chance it might.

whaaaat? no. You know your percentages are off because they add up to 100%. If two wins can be awarded, that means that the percentages will not add up to 100, they will be over 100.

In the situation with 1 town, 1 fire, 1 ice:

- If scum can both win if they are the only ones left: town wins 25%, fire wins 50%, ice wins 50%. It is 25% over 100 because there is a 25% chance that both scum shoot the townie. Explanation: scum loses if they are shot, win if they are not shot as long as they shoot somebody. They don't care who they shoot so they do so randomly. 25% chance they shoot each other and town wins, 25% chance they both shoot the townie and both win, 50% chance one shoots the other and the other shoots the townie.

- If scum tie if they are the only ones left: town wins 100% of the time.  Scum lose if they are shot. If they are not shot, they win by shooting other scum. So that's what they both do, town wins.

That's my issue with letting scum both win.

Mail-mi's solution is awesome though. Not sure if I like it better than a tie, but it certainly works:

- Same scenario, let's say that if only two scum left fire beats ice (I assume this will be known info because flavor will be provided with flips).

fire loses if they are shot, wins if they are not shot, so they shoot randomly. ice lose if they are shot, win if they are not shot and they shoot fire. So they shoot fire. 50% ice wins, 50% town wins, 0% fire wins.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

while I was typing that I realized a couple (pretty important) things

- Yuma was probably talking about winning percentages from the start of D1, not the scenario with 1 town, 1 fire, 1 ice. In any case, the percentages should still be over 100, though less than 25% over.

- I am assuming that it is known who the townie is... that changes everything if this is not the case.

[Jimmmmm]

Is there consensus on what acceptable percentages are to qualify for a balanced game when you have more than two parties? When you have two equal scum teams should you be aiming for 33/33/33 or 50/25/25 or something in the middle? Should a second scum team reduce Town's likelihood of winning by ~17%? What about a SK? I think to be realistic most SKs probably have less than 10% chance of winning. And what about Survivors?

I think at the end of the day, a balanced game is one in which the Team that plays the best has the highest chance of winning. Of course, you probably can't say that about SKs, but there you go.

[liopoil]

I think that you should aim for all players having an equal chance of winning, even in the case of a SK (although it is much less feasible in that case).

[mail-mi]

Bump! Come on guys, 6 more! MC is over, you can sign up for this one now!

[Jimmmmm]

/in if it start after November 8.

[Voltgloss]

/in!

[Voltgloss]

(by which I mean Vote: Robz)

 

[2.71828.....]

/in.  Says newbi-friendly, and that is good because that is what I am.  I have played mafia with some other people once or twice, but this will be my first experience on the forum.

[mail-mi]

/in.  Says newbi-friendly, and that is good because that is what I am.  I have played mafia with some other people once or twice, but this will be my first experience on the forum.

[Robz888]

/in.  Says newbi-friendly, and that is good because that is what I am.  I have played mafia with some other people once or twice, but this will be my first experience on the forum.

Welcome!