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[Showdown35]

Ok, let's start a new discussion.  I'm excited to hear the feedback for these next two cards because I really like the concepts of them, but I definitely need some help and/or reassurance about their mechanics.

Here we go:

Plotting Room
$3 - Action
+5 Cards
Put 5 cards from your hand on top of your deck in any order.

Obviously the concept is you use this to set up your next turn, (or this turn if you have the actions to do it).  Similar to Navigator or Embassy, but a little more straightforward as a set-up the future card with no strings.  I originally had it priced at $2 since it usuaslly doesn't have any value on the turn you play it (unless you want to mess up your next turn, either way, your junk cards gotta go somewhere!) but raised it to $3 because it can easily set up a crazy good turn that would make up for the value lost on one.


Trapsmith
$3 - Action-Reaction
+2 Actions
+$1
--------------------------------
When you would reveal your hand on
another player's turn, you may reveal this.
If you do, you may first set aside all but 2
cards from your hand. Return the set aside
cards to your hand at the end of that turn.

I spent quite a bit of time getting the wording for this one how I wanted it, and I'm still not sure if "when you would..." is the right way to go.  I toyed around with "When you reveal your hand with this in it..." but the whole point is you don't have to show the cards you set aside, so it has to be a replacement trigger that happens before you actually reveal your hand.  I also thought maybe it could trigger on an opponent playing an Attack card, but that might make it a little too good.

Let me know what you think!

[Dsell]

As for the first, I had a really similar idea in the original card design contest, but with +2 actions on there. I like the idea, but the consensus was that it would cause way too much analysis paralysis, with people trying to figure out both this turn and the next. That might not be such an issue on a terminal card, though. This might be ok with +4, put 4 back, but even still I'm not sure. It may just be a polarizing card that some people would really like and some really dislike.

The second card seems way too weak for me. Its vanilla bonus is just way too weak for a $3 card, and the reaction is really niche. Only a few official cards even make you show your hand on an opponent's turn, (Cutpurse, Bureaucrat off the top of my head, and only if the attack fails) and it could cause some weird rules things. For example, Cutpurse says "Each other player discards a Copper card (or reveals a hand with no Copper)." So you must discard a copper if you have one, since that comes first, but this causes weird accountability rules because if you only have to show 2 cards, you could hide a copper. I think your intent is to make it such that you wouldn't have to discard that copper, right? But I don't think the wording of the cards would allow for that, and "hiding" a copper after being mandated to discard it is breaking the rules on Cutpurse.

[Showdown35]

Good point. My intent for it has nothing to do with cutpurse. I actually designed it to be a counter to some attacks that I also designed for my fan set.  I suppose I could make it trigger on the attack, which would solve the rules issue, and should make it valuable enough to be $3. It would then be a counter for cutpurse, militia, and other attacks that only affect players with 3 or more cards in hand.

[Jack Rudd]

I take it a Plotting Room is where Tacticians hang out? The two cards are somewhat synergistic.

[Showdown35]

I take it a Plotting Room is where Tacticians hang out? The two cards are somewhat synergistic.

Booya!

[Nic]

Good point. My intent for it has nothing to do with cutpurse. I actually designed it to be a counter to some attacks that I also designed for my fan set.  I suppose I could make it trigger on the attack, which would solve the rules issue, and should make it valuable enough to be $3. It would then be a counter for cutpurse, militia, and other attacks that only affect players with 3 or more cards in hand.

This I like. You'd have to then make the action terminal, or else it blows Moat and Horse Traders out of the water. If there's no opportunity cost in flooding your deck with blue cards, then you can shut down any player who invests in attacks, and then there's no incentive to buy them. The top by itself would be a very weak $3 and a mediocre $2, but people would still buy it if it was the only village. More specifically, a hand full of these doesn't ruin your turn the way multiple Moats would.

If you want to keep it nonterminal, another option would be to make the reaction strictly better, and price it at $4 or $5. If you cut out the 'not your turn' clause, it would have a lot of utility in setting up a few combos.

When you would reveal your hand or when
another player plays an Attack cardon
another player's turn, you may reveal this.
If you do, you may first set aside all but 2
cards from your hand. Return the set aside
cards to your hand at the end of that turn
start of your next turn.

That way, you can engage in all kinds of handsize-decreasing shenanigans for Menagerie/Poor House/Hunting Party, but with the cards you don't want being Havened instead of discarded.

[eHalcyon]

Yeah, like Dsell says, the primary concern for Plotting Room would be AP.  Not only do you have to choose the 5 cards to put back, you also have to choose the order.  That's a lot to figure out and it can take a significant amount of time when you have ways to draw more cards on this turn.  A secondary concern is how it stacks really poorly.  That's not a deal breaker (CH doesn't stack either), but it's something to keep in mind.

Trapsmith is quite niche.  I know you want it for interaction with other planned cards in your set, but you should keep in mind how it would play out in full random games where it might be the only card from your set on the board.  Expanding it so that it can be a viable response to more attacks is a good direction to take it.

What is a Trapsmith anyway?  A person who is skilled at setting traps?  Sounds more like an Attack than a Reaction.   The function seems to be a way to hide some of your hand when opponents try to sneak a peek, so maybe find a name along those lines.  It's also +2 actions so a village-esque name would be appropriate (though Trusty Steed, Squire and Wandering Minstrel are counter examples).  Hidden Village?  Ghost Town?  Hideout?




Re: Nic's suggestions, +2 actions, +$1 is actually weak even for $2 (Squire can give you that, but with additional options).  I think that makes it OK to have this kind of reaction even on a non-terminal card.  OK, invest in these villages -- they're still weak.  Maybe the other player would be smart to avoid handsize attacks then.  Yeah this can shut it down, but it's not really that powerful on its own so I don't think it's a huge, huge deal.  It's something to keep in mind though, so Nic's right to point it out.

[Showdown35]

By "trapsmith" I meant someone who finds and disarms traps. As in the trap attacks that make you reveal your hand. This protects you from your opponents traps... even if you take it as someone who sets traps, its a reaction because the traps stop attackers from getting to you, much like a moat is a defense, setting traps is generally not an offensive action.

[Warfreak2]

How about Locksmith? He's able to get you out of your opponent's traps, and also hide away the rest of your cards in his safe.

[Showdown35]

How about Locksmith? He's able to get you out of your opponent's traps, and also hide away the rest of your cards in his safe.

Interesting take... I really wanted to fit the theme of like, someone who disarms traps, like a bomb squad, but for traps... Trap Squad!  I just chose Trapsmith as a fill in until I found the right word. Although the theme of the whole set could really fit either a trap- or a lock-smith.  Maybe a lock-picker of some kind, since the theme is Night Life and Illegal/Corrupt people and actions.

[LastFootnote]

How about Locksmith? He's able to get you out of your opponent's traps, and also hide away the rest of your cards in his safe.

Interesting take... I really wanted to fit the theme of like, someone who disarms traps, like a bomb squad, but for traps... Trap Squad!  I just chose Trapsmith as a fill in until I found the right word. Although the theme of the whole set could really fit either a trap- or a lock-smith.  Maybe a lock-picker of some kind, since the theme is Night Life and Illegal/Corrupt people and actions.

The word you're looking for is "troubleshooter". No joke.

[sudgy]

How about Locksmith? He's able to get you out of your opponent's traps, and also hide away the rest of your cards in his safe.

Interesting take... I really wanted to fit the theme of like, someone who disarms traps, like a bomb squad, but for traps... Trap Squad!  I just chose Trapsmith as a fill in until I found the right word. Although the theme of the whole set could really fit either a trap- or a lock-smith.  Maybe a lock-picker of some kind, since the theme is Night Life and Illegal/Corrupt people and actions.

The word you're looking for is "troubleshooter". No joke.

So, are you saying that when something of mine doesn't work and I try things to make it work again, it's illegal?

[AJD]

The word you're looking for is "troubleshooter". No joke.

So, are you saying that when something of mine doesn't work and I try things to make it work again, it's illegal?

"Who are you?"
"I'm the troubleshooter."
"What seems to be the trouble?"
"You are."
BOOM

[Showdown35]

How about Locksmith? He's able to get you out of your opponent's traps, and also hide away the rest of your cards in his safe.

Interesting take... I really wanted to fit the theme of like, someone who disarms traps, like a bomb squad, but for traps... Trap Squad!  I just chose Trapsmith as a fill in until I found the right word. Although the theme of the whole set could really fit either a trap- or a lock-smith.  Maybe a lock-picker of some kind, since the theme is Night Life and Illegal/Corrupt people and actions.

The word you're looking for is "troubleshooter". No joke.

So, are you saying that when something of mine doesn't work and I try things to make it work again, it's illegal?

Not at all. I'm saying that breaking and entering is illegal, hence why a "lock-picker or something" would fit the theme. That's why I changed it to "lock-picker" when I mentioned the theme of the set. "Locksmith" was suggested by Warfreak, so I was saying I could make it fit the theme by naming the card like a criminal with lock picking experience as opposed to an actual locksmith.

[sudgy]

How about Locksmith? He's able to get you out of your opponent's traps, and also hide away the rest of your cards in his safe.

Interesting take... I really wanted to fit the theme of like, someone who disarms traps, like a bomb squad, but for traps... Trap Squad!  I just chose Trapsmith as a fill in until I found the right word. Although the theme of the whole set could really fit either a trap- or a lock-smith.  Maybe a lock-picker of some kind, since the theme is Night Life and Illegal/Corrupt people and actions.

The word you're looking for is "troubleshooter". No joke.

So, are you saying that when something of mine doesn't work and I try things to make it work again, it's illegal?

Not at all. I'm saying that breaking and entering is illegal, hence why a "lock-picker or something" would fit the theme. That's why I changed it to "lock-picker" when I mentioned the theme of the set. "Locksmith" was suggested by Warfreak, so I was saying I could make it fit the theme by naming the card like a criminal with lock picking experience as opposed to an actual locksmith.

It was supposed to be a joke...

[Nic]

I'm partial to Hideout. It matches up perfectly with the mechanics of the card, it's thematic, and it contrasts nicely with Moat, Tunnel, and Secret Chamber. It doesn't make much sense for a Locksmith to be lying about or concealing your cards, and Trapsmith just sounds awkward.

[Showdown35]

I'm partial to Hideout. It matches up perfectly with the mechanics of the card, it's thematic, and it contrasts nicely with Moat, Tunnel, and Secret Chamber. It doesn't make much sense for a Locksmith to be lying about or concealing your cards, and Trapsmith just sounds awkward.

Hideout, huh?... I like it!! A hiding place where you can put your stuff/treasure/vips when other monarchs send out their goons to attack you! Very flavorful!

[Showdown35]

It was supposed to be a joke...

I figured, but I like to be thorough!

[eHalcyon]

I'm partial to Hideout. It matches up perfectly with the mechanics of the card, it's thematic, and it contrasts nicely with Moat, Tunnel, and Secret Chamber. It doesn't make much sense for a Locksmith to be lying about or concealing your cards, and Trapsmith just sounds awkward.

Hideout, huh?... I like it!! A hiding place where you can put your stuff/treasure/vips when other monarchs send out their goons to attack you! Very flavorful!

I suggested that in my post...

[Asper]

I take it a Plotting Room is where Tacticians hang out? The two cards are somewhat synergistic.

Booya!

Funny, i only thought of Scheme, which also topdecks, and how Schemes are... plotted.

[WalrusMcFishSr]

"Schemes and plots are the same thing." --Tyrion Lannister

[Nic]

I'm partial to Hideout. It matches up perfectly with the mechanics of the card, it's thematic, and it contrasts nicely with Moat, Tunnel, and Secret Chamber. It doesn't make much sense for a Locksmith to be lying about or concealing your cards, and Trapsmith just sounds awkward.

Hideout, huh?... I like it!! A hiding place where you can put your stuff/treasure/vips when other monarchs send out their goons to attack you! Very flavorful!

I suggested that in my post...

That's why I seconded it.

[eHalcyon]

I'm partial to Hideout. It matches up perfectly with the mechanics of the card, it's thematic, and it contrasts nicely with Moat, Tunnel, and Secret Chamber. It doesn't make much sense for a Locksmith to be lying about or concealing your cards, and Trapsmith just sounds awkward.

Hideout, huh?... I like it!! A hiding place where you can put your stuff/treasure/vips when other monarchs send out their goons to attack you! Very flavorful!

I suggested that in my post...

That's why I seconded it.

I know. I think Showdown missed it, hiding on that new line.

[Showdown35]

I'm partial to Hideout. It matches up perfectly with the mechanics of the card, it's thematic, and it contrasts nicely with Moat, Tunnel, and Secret Chamber. It doesn't make much sense for a Locksmith to be lying about or concealing your cards, and Trapsmith just sounds awkward.

Hideout, huh?... I like it!! A hiding place where you can put your stuff/treasure/vips when other monarchs send out their goons to attack you! Very flavorful!

I suggested that in my post...

That's why I seconded it.

I know. I think Showdown missed it, hiding on that new line.

So I did! Well, I remember reading it, but I was still stuck on explaining why I named it trapsmith, wasn't considering renaming it at that time, (knew I would probably later, just not at that time) I was just focused on getting the mechanic right. After I decided (with all your guys help) to change it to react to any attack, the "hiding" name was suggested again. So thank you too, eHalcyon, I will probably end up going with some kind of hideout name for the card to fit the flavor.

[ChocophileBenj]

Ploting Room, or whatever its name is, is awesome !!! (why not some name with "lock" in it ?)

And now, I dreamt of another card idea tonight, that looks like Vault, except it's a Trading post for your opponents :

-Something-
Action, cost $5/6
*insert here an effect terrible at beginning but a little less terrible when the game goes on*
Each other player may trash 2 cards from his hand. If he does, he gains a Silver, putting it in his hand.

And now, a concrete idea :

-Hub-
Action, cost $6
+3 cards
Trash up to 3 cards from your hand. +$1 for each card trashed this way.
Each other player may trash 2 cards from his hand. If he does, he gains a Silver, putting it in his hand.

So what do you think about this ? (I love "draw then trash" cards, such as Masquerade) Would it fit in a flavor challenge ?