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[Asper]

First half:

Logothete
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+2 Actions. Reveal your hand. +1 Card and +$1 per Victory card revealed. Reveal your hand again and put all the revealed Victory cards at the bottom of your deck in any order.

Too weak i think. Discarding them is fine to avoid using the same victory card several times, but putting them at the bottom is a harsh penalty.

Cold Iron
Types: Treasure – Attack – Victory – Reaction
Cost: $4
Worth $1. When you play this, each other player with 5 or more cards in hand draws a card then puts cards from his hand on top of his deck until he has 4 cards in hand.
Worth 1 VP. When another player plays an Attack card, you may discard this from your hand. If you do, gain a Silver, putting it into your hand, and you are not affected by the Attack.

I guess the treasure, attack and reaction parts kind of interact, but i can't shake the feeling that victory was just tacked on to make this more intrigue-y...
I like that whoever did this chose a treasure-attack that doesn't stack, but other than that the attack isn't really interesting.

Sphinx (A)
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $4
+1 Card. +1 Action. If this is the first time you played a Sphinx this turn, each other player guesses how many Action cards you will play this turn. At the end of your Action phase, each player who guessed incorrectly gains a Curse.

Clarification: The players guess in turn order.

Somebody said this can be political, and i think it is somehow. If there's only one curse left, say the same number as the guy to your right. Either he gets it, or noone.
Edit: Oh, sure... It's political for the attacker... Umm... Yeah... I got that on my own...

Sphinx (B)
Types: Action
Cost: $3
Choose one: +3 Cards and discard a card that is not a Victory cards (or reveal a hand of all Victory cards); or +$3 and cards cost $1 more this turn; or trash 3 cards from your hand and gain a card costing $0.

Stewart, of course. I don't see any reason to choose the +3$ option, though. The others seem okay. Not exactly bad.

Paladin
Types: Action – Attack – Victory
Cost: $4
+1 Action. Choose one: Each player (including you) with 4 or more cards in hand discards a card; or each player (including you) draws until he has 4 cards in hand.
Worth 1 VP for every 4 Attack cards in your deck (rounded down).

A bit weak, especially if there are no other attacks. I'd maybe try it as a Village instead of the victory points (but possibly that's just me being lazy at judging it's strength as a victory)... A Village had the benefit that you could play Paladin, then a +2$ attack, and then paladin again to draw, though.

Landlord
Types: Action – Victory
Cost: $5
+2 Cards. You may discard a Victory card. If you do, +1 Action.
Worth 1 VP per empty Supply pile.

Y u no science name? Kind of like it, but i feel it might be too weak. Maybe "+3 cards. Discard a card. If it is a Victory card: +1 Action"

Dance
Types: Action – Attack – Reaction
Cost: $4
Choose one: Each player (including you) puts a card from his hand on top of his deck; or each player puts his deck into his discard pile.
When another player shuffles, you may reveal and discard this from your hand. If you do, +2 Cards.

It's possible to pin somebody with this, and i don't like that of course. Assuming you give this a "with 4 or more cards in hand", the attack is interesting, but a bit... odd. Also i'd like to say there's no benefit to yourself, but then again the reaction synergizes very well with the attack. I'm not sure i like how much psychology is in the card, though. A non-beneficial Militia that gives others a Chancellor effect is... weak. A militia that tricks opponents into discarding a good card is... mean. I'd probably enable players to do the second option on top of the first. I really like the reaction-attack synergy about this one.

Quartermaster
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $3
+$2. Discard a card. Each other player with 4 or more cards in hand discards a card that shares a type with and costs more than the card you discarded (or reveal a hand with no such card).

This is either a terminal +2$, discard an Estate and maybe hit a Nobles. Well, that's weak. Or it's a Silver/Gold/etc.-Cutpurse that only gives +1$ (when you discard a Copper). For 3$? Hmm... I think that's too mean. So: You double-open this, use it to discard Coppers, and if you draw them both at the same time, discard one for the other to make your opponents discard a 4$, or maybe even 5$ action? I'm not a fan, mostly because it's swingy.

Concerto
Types: Action
Cost: $3
+1 Action. Look through your discard pile. You may reveal a card from it and put it on the bottom of your deck. If it is an… Action card, +1 Action; Treasure card, +$1; Victory card, +1 Card.

It seems this is best if you use it to store good Treasures at the bottom of your deck, but it's also pretty nice with Victory-hybrids. I guess it really likes Harem. I think 2$ is really enough for this, though. If you made this 2$ and called it "Sultan" or "Vizier" (going with Intrigue's aristocracy theme), it would definately get my voice

Architect (A)
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+1 Action. +$2.
While this is in play, when an Action Card (including this) would give you any amount of $, you may draw that many cards instead.

I guess it's not assumed to stack, at least if i interpret "instead" correctly. Would probably need a rewording for that, though. It's too weak, then. If it stacks, it's very, very strong.

Acropolis
Types: Action
Cost: $5
When you play this, +1 Card per unused action you have (Action, not Action card). +2 Actions.

Nice name. On it's own, the first one is a Necropolis, the second a Village, the third a level 2 city... Seems okay. Now assume you have cheaper Villages, like FV or maybe Crossroads... Amazing. It's funny how you have to become a Village idiot for this to be really good. I guess it's not half as good as it seems on first glance, but i like it.

Prefecture
Types: Action – Victory
Cost: $5
Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal a Victory card. If you do, put it and one other revealed card into your hand. Discard the rest.
Worth 2 VP.

So, the more of these you get, the worse they are. Hmm... At worst this means putting the top card of your deck in your hand. At best this can draw the best card in your deck. Probably it's usually the best of about 6, maybe. I don't really think i'd buy it.

Nabob
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $5
+2 Cards. Trash a card from your hand. Choose one: Gain a card costing up to $2 more than the trashed card; or each other player gains a card costing up to the cost of the trashed card.

Very strong. As a Remodel that also gives +2 Cards, the first option is worth 5$ on it's own, i think. The second is basically a Copper junking Witch that also trashes. I'm not sure whether i like it.

Courtier
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $4
You may gain a Duchy. If you didn't, gain a Silver. Each other player may gain an Estate. If he didn't, he gains a Copper.

Let's compare this to Marauder: Donald planned to let it gain Silvers, so i assume the Silver gain is fair. Choosing between a Copper (which is better than most of the Ruins) and a Victory card is a weaker attack than it. As you can also choose another nice option yourself, i guess it's balanced. I'm not sure it really interests me that much and plays differently enough from Marauder, though.

Monastery
Types: Action
Cost: $4
Gain a card costing up to $6. For each $1 over $4 it costs, each other player may choose one: he trashes a card from his hand; he gains up to 2 Coppers, putting them into his hand; he discards his hand and draws 5 cards.

Interesting. Don't like the name, though.

Lawyer
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+$2. Reveal the top card of your deck. If you reveal a Victory card, discard it and gain an Action card costing up to $5. Otherwise, put the card back and gain an Action card costing up to $3.

I guess you'd not buy this if there are only bad actions for 3$ or less. If there are, every card you gain still decreases the chance of hitting an action (unless there's Great Hall). I guess the +2$ kind of makes up for this, but i'm not sure i see the strategy that goes with it.

Lord
Types: Action – Victory
Cost: $4
Reveal your hand. If you revealed a Treasure card, a Victory card, and an Action card (each separate cards), then +$3. Otherwise, +$1.
Worth 1 VP.

I'm not sure why it have to be seperate cards. No Intrigue card does that, and Intrigue's where the hybrids come from. I guess it's necessary to nerf the card because it's a Victory itself, but i'm not convinced it needs to be one.

Bailey
Types: Action – Victory
Cost: $4
Do this three times: Choose one: +1 Action; or discard a Victory card, and +$2 if you did.
Worth 1 VP.

Yeah, self-synergy, i get it... I don't think this has to be a Victory card, though. As it's almost certainly a buyless Festival at the start of the game, it's allready pretty strong for 4$. Given it offers a choice and therefore is good with both actions and victories (though probably better in a victory slog than in an engine, other than Festival), i'd say it definitely has to lose the VP.

Wall
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $4
Choose two: Look at the top card of your deck and discard it or put it back; or gain a card costing up to $3; or trash a card from your hand. (The choices must be different.)
When another player plays an Attack card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, you may discard any number of cards from your hand. At the start of your next turn, draw that many cards.

I don't like how it needs you to remember the number of cards discarded. I recommend setting them aside and discarding them at the start of your next turn to avoid that. Other than that, this is a nice defense against discard attacks and a free Cellar that also helps against junkers (especially nice when a Witch helps you filtering after the Curses ran out). The action part is not exactly compelling as is to me, though, because the first option is so much worse than the last. Maybe limit what you can trash? Also is this the Wall a certain jack leans on? The options seem kind of familiar...

Overseer
Types: Action
Cost: $4
Put a marker on an empty District of the Overseer Mat. If you put it on the…
Residential District, +1 Card and +2 Actions
Craftsmen's District, +3 Cards
Commercial District, +1 Card, +1 Action, and +$1
Industrial District, gain a card costing up to $4
Logging District, +1 Buy and +$2
If four districts of the mat have a marker, remove all the markers.

Rules Clarification: There is one communal Overseer mat, split into the five districts.

This seems like it's a hommage to something i don't know... It's very complicated and i can allready imagine being the guy who has to start over putting the first marker (token?) on that damned mat after the unholy person to my right emptied it. And then have him do that again. And again. And after the fourth time i see myself standing up, shouting, throwing my cards on the table and screaming "DAMNED SH*T, SCREW YOU ALL! I SAID LET'S NOT PLAY WITH THAT GOD-DAMNED CARD!!!"

I misread. Actually this is quite interesting. I still think that there might be situations where one person has the worst position several times in a row, though.

Shrine
Types: Action – Victory
Cost: $5
+1 Action. Choose one: trash a card from your hand; or +1 Card.
Worth 2 VP.

Not bad. Not bad at all. I like the name and how this manages to be rather simple and still interesting. It's probably stronger than i get right now.

Committee
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+$2. The player to your left names a card. Reveal the top 4 cards of your deck and choose one that is not the named card. Trash it or gain a copy of it. Put the untrashed cards back in any order.

I think this compares too favourably with Explorer which is usually +2$, gain a Silver. This can gain better cards, and while it never gives +3$, it can trash unwanted cards. Explorer isn't a power card, so i guess it can be justified.

Taylor-Compton
Types: Action – Victory
Cost: $5
+1 Card. +1 Action. Discard any number of Victory cards. +$1 per card discarded.
Worth 1 VP.

So this is a Great Hall with a built-in Secret Chamber (for Victory cards exclusively)... I don't think it's good enough.


Will do the second half tomorrow.

Edit: Just saw the poll closes the day after tomorrow... I shall make haste, then.

[dghunter79]

I wouldn't worry too much about Black Market. That's one card out of over 200, and it's still not nearly as powerful a combo as Hermit/Market Square. And anyway, the other players can still put their own BM purchases onto their mat when you play this. So, it all comes down to the split, but at $3 it's far from inaccessible.

Personally, I like the whole thing about not knowing whose winning. The physical game of Dominion forbids point tracking, anyway.

Yes, they can put their own purchases onto their mats on your turn, though they wouldn't do that unless they had already bought into Secret Plots as well, which I assume both players would do when Black Market and Plot are both on the board. 

As you say, the game will come down to the Secret Plot-split, which, if you lose, you are done, the game is over, because all the Plots will be worth a bajillion points.  So, on 4-3, open two Plots, and then buy them on turn 3 and 4, and then Black Markets.  If you open 5-2 against 4-3, you will probably lose the split, and the game.  Wouldn't 5-2 against 4-3 on a board with Plot and Black Market be the new worst opening in the game?

If both players open Plot-Plot-Plot-Plot, and get the even split, the "game" of buying Black Markets, and then draining all 25, or 50, or 200 cards out of the Black Market begins.  This sounds like a long game, it doesn't seem fun, and it doesn't feel like Dominion.  My guess is, this combo turns the game into such an endless boring slog that it would be banned at most tables.

Yeah, Black Market is only one out of 200 cards, but it's SUCH a bad combo.

I'm not arguing that Secret Plot is bad because it's over-powered, exactly.  Obviously, it is a terrible card for any purpose other than buying all the other cards, and putting them on the mat.  Because of the huge benefit it gives opponents, it is unbuyable for any other purpose.  If you are buying it for VP, there are probably other combos that can outrace it.  And if not, it can be easily countered by another player playing the same strategy.  As I've been saying, a frequent outcome is that both players will put in a lot of work, and then the card will be worth zero points.

What I'm trying to explain is that the card doesn't work.  More importantly, I don't see what's so fun about it that you guys are willing to ignore its significant drawbacks.  The fun part of it is already done by Fairgrounds.  If I understood what there even was to like about the card, what a "Secret Plot game" felt like in your heads, I could maybe suggest how the card could be unbroken.

[SirPeebles]

Overseer
Types: Action
Cost: $4
Put a marker on an empty District of the Overseer Mat. If you put it on the…
Residential District, +1 Card and +2 Actions
Craftsmen's District, +3 Cards
Commercial District, +1 Card, +1 Action, and +$1
Industrial District, gain a card costing up to $4
Logging District, +1 Buy and +$2
If four districts of the mat have a marker, remove all the markers.

Rules Clarification: There is one communal Overseer mat, split into the five districts.

I haven't had time yet to carefully read through the cards, but this one stood out as being really long.  Since it has a mat, I think the text could be simplified a ton by putting the bulk of this text onto the mat itself.  Here's a simplified card:

Overseer
Types: Action
Cost: $4
Put a marker on an empty District of the Overseer Mat and receive that district's bonus. If four districts of the mat have a marker, remove all the markers.



Rules Clarification: There is one communal Overseer mat, split into the five districts with the following titles and bonuses:
Residential District, +1 Card and +2 Actions
Craftsmen's District, +3 Cards
Commercial District, +1 Card, +1 Action, and +$1
Industrial District, gain a card costing up to $4
Logging District, +1 Buy and +$2

[Asper]

Second half:

Usurer
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $5
Discard any number of cards. Choose one: +$1 per card discarded; or each other player discards until he has the same number of cards in hand as you.

Too easy to do a pin with, especially as it produces virtual money, too. Draw your deck with two actions remaining, discard 8 cards with your Usurer and then the rest with another, Ta-Dah... I guess you can set a minimum to which they discard, but i feel there hasn't been much thought for this card. Sorry.

Dungeon
Types: Action – Victory
Cost: $5
+1 Action. Trash up to 3 cards from your hand.
Worth 1 VP per $ in the cost of the cheapest card in your deck (in Coins).

Interesting idea. Finally a trashing Victory-Action. Its victory part interacts differently with the trashing than i would have made such a card do, but i like the idea nonetheless. The fact that it costs 5$ makes sure it doesn't become worth ridiculous amounts, too. I'm still not so sure whether it isn't too good, though, because in games without junkers, it can easily become a Duchy+ for 5$, and in such with junkers, it's almost a nonterminal Chapel. Hmm... I like the idea, though, and i'll definitely consider voting for it.

Majordomo
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Action. Discard a card. If it is a… Victory card, +1 Card; Treasure card, +2 Cards; Action card, +3 Cards.

I learn new words every day. So of course i expected a Tribute effect, and, surprise, i didn't get it. I see this is really nice with hybrids, other than that i guess it's pretty engine-friendly. It's not comparable to Stables because the Treasure option is much worse, but it's more flexible. Discarding one of colliding terminals for 3 cards seems nice. Really, this is one where i'll have to look what others think...

Wedding
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $5
+1 Action. You may trash up to 2 cards from your hand. If you trashed exactly 1 card, each other player discards down to 3 cards in hand. If you trashed exactly 2 cards, each other player gains a Curse.

Very strong and reminds me of Mercenary, Witch and Militia all at once. I think it compares too favourably to Witch, which is allready a very strong 5$. Also i think the "may" is unnecessary, but that's just wording.

Liege
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $5
+2 Cards. Each other player discards a Victory card (or reveals a hand with no Victory cards). If any player discards a card this way, play this again.

Who-ha. An anti-intrigue-attack in that it only really harms the enemy if he goes for hybrids (which you obviously wouldn't like to do on a Liege board...). In other words this gives you +2 Cards per Victory card in the hand of the player with the most victory cards in hand. I think the concept has something, but i really don't like that person who plays this directly after you will likely get "+2 cards" for a 5$ action card. The first player advantage makes it pretty unfair... Hm... I do guess it balances out if Lieges are constantly played... Still, being the second in a row to play this would just be frustrating. It really is an interesting idea - a one-card engine that relies on your opponents playing victory-strategies. Still the first player advantage bothers me much.

Traitor
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $4
+$1. Choose one: Name a card costing up to $3 and each other player with 5 or more cards in hand discards a copy of the named card (or reveals a hand without it); or, choose an Attack card from your hand and play it twice.

If you have good attacks, this is better than Throne Room. But that's okay. What i don't like is that the second copy of this you play will certainly hit at least one opponent, and that this hit will even be a political one. I like the name the most about this.

Homestead
Types: Action – Victory
Cost: $4
+2 Actions. Reveal cards from the top of your deck unti you reveal a Victory card. Put that card into your hand and discard the rest.
Worth 1 VP.

It's interesting how often i see cards here that seem to have a VP tacked on and then surprise me with something that actually synergizes (or at least seems to do without playtesting). So this is a Village which is worth a VP but draws a dead card - unless you have many of them, in which case they might just draw each other. A clever idea. I like it. And i don't easily like Villages. (Nice name, by the way).

Observatory
Types: Action
Cost: $3
+1 Action. Reveal the top 3 cards of your deck. If you revealed a Victory card, put all the revealed cards into your hand. Otherwise, discard them.

The missing fourth card is the only thing (besides some crude edge cases) that keeps this from being strictly better than Scout. Now Scout is horrible, we know, so the question is, is this interesting? I guess it's okay. Comparable to Menagerie to some extend.

Tiller
Types: Action
Cost: $4
Trash a card from your hand. The player to your left chooses a card in the Supply costing at least $2 more than the trashed card. Gain it.

I read somebody explaining how this is usually worse than Remodel until you trash a 5$, where your opponent most of the time won't be able to choose a 7$ and has to give you a Province. Clever. Can't say anything against it. I'm not so certain the name fits, especially as this is part of the remodel family and should rather be called "Refurbish" or whatever...

Architect (B)
Types: Action
Cost: $5
Trash a card from your hand. Choose one: gain a card costing up to $2 more than the trashed card, which you may put on top of your deck; or +2 Buys and +$ equal to the trashed card's cost in Coins.

So either topdecking Remodel (mediocre costed cards) or Salvager + 1 Buy (expensive cards). Still doesn't really work good for Copper or Curses. I'm not convinced this adds enough to the game...

Groundskeeper
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Card. +$1. Discard a card. Choose one: set aside up to 3 cards from your discard pile, discarding them after your next reshuffle; or shuffle your discard pile and put it at the bottom of your deck.

Setting aside cards untill your next reshuffle seems a bit to "nautic" for Intrigue, if you know what i mean. I get that the two choices synergize, because you are trying to set aside bad cards and then put your discard pile under your deck to prolong the time till your next reshuffle. As you put them under your deck, you also can't simply play the same few cards over and over (Pearl Diver doesn't count as "simple" here). It's a clever idea, though i feel the set-aside really belongs to Seaside more. With simplified Vanilla bonuses i'd vote for it there (if this card was in the first Seaside contest, forgive me. I couldn't vote nor really look at cards there and also didn't vote for my own card).

Heir
Types: Victory
Cost: $4
At the end of the game, choose one: Trash an Estate from your deck and this is worth 1 VP per Estate in your deck; or trash 2 Curses from your deck and this is worth 2 VP; or trash 3 Coppers from your deck and this is worth 3 VP if you have no Treasures in your deck.

Ah, Donalds idea of cards that do something at the end of the game. I guess this doesn't have problems, as long as you assume reactions don't work at the end of the game. I just think it's too many ideas in one card.

Mob
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $5
The player to your left reveals his hand. Choose one of the revealed cards costing up to $6. Either gain a copy of it or each other player gains a copy of it, your choice.

Works, i guess. Though i would be very worried every time i have a Province in hand during a game with this and Highway... :-/

Nouveau Riche
Types: Action
Cost: $4
You may discard an Estate. If you do, +3 Cards. You may discard a Duchy. If you do, +$2. You may discard a Victory card. If you do, +1 Action.

Clarification: It should be clear from the wording here, but you don't choose between these three options. You choose whether or not to do each in order.

Ah, i see where the name comes from. I can allready imagine Duke and Baron frowning at the upstage who interacts with their Estates and Duchies... It's not as complicated as i first thought, and it fits Intrigue. I like it.

Hidden Passage
Types: Action
Cost: $3
+1 Card. +1 Action. You may trash a card from your hand. Each other player may reveal the top 2 cards of his deck. If he does, he trashes one and discards the other.

EDIT: Added +1 Card and +1 Action.

Too good. My Artefact was like this and was too strong at 2$ as much as at 3$, and that card even waited for another reshuffle before it entered the discard pile. Of course this gives others a benefit on play, but the benefit is so risky i'm sure it won't do enough.

Legate
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Action. +$1. Each player (including you) reveals the top 3 cards of his deck and puts one of them (your choice) in his hand, then puts the rest back on top in an order he chooses.

Okay, this is a Peddler that draws the best card among the top three of your deck, but also gives each other player a card... I think it's too weak, especially as even if you always give them the worst of three, that will still mean they keep two good cards on top. It synergizes with Thief or Saboteur, but the additional card is still too much of a drawback.

Secret Plot
Types: Treasure – Victory
Cost: $3
Worth $1. When you play this, each player may set aside a card face down on his Secret Plot mat. You may look at the cards on your mat at any time; reveal them and return them to your deck at the end of the game.
Worth 1 VP for each differently-named card on your mat that no other player has a copy of on his mat.

Needs "from his hand", of course. I guess this card will have an interesting VP curve depending on how long the game takes. I'm pretty sure it will be worst if the game takes too long or too short. Other than that the concept seems a bit similar to Fairgrounds. And also one Victory point per card seems awfully much, to be honest. Then again, it's likely that cards like Copper or Estates will be put there by most players... Hm... It's interesting, but i'm not conviced i'd like playing with it.

Castellan
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $5
Do the following three things in any order; you get the version in parentheses: Each player draws until he has 5 (6) cards in hand; each player discards down to 3 (3) cards in hand; each player trashes up to 1 (2) cards from his hand.

I see the ordering of the steps makes sense, and i guess this card is often enough beneficial to others. I like that other than Governor this is terminal. I'm not sure what to say beyond that, maybe that i like the name.

Inquisitor
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $5
+$2. Each other player may discard any number of cards. Choose one: Each other player gains a Curse for each card in hand over 3; or each other player trashes a card from his hand and draws until he has 3 cards in hand.

I don't like the forced trashing from the hand, and how political the card is. I guess that whatever you choose to do, you just can't please an Inquisitor...

Narcissist
Types: Action
Cost: $4
You may reveal then discard any number of differently-named cards. For each card discarded this way, if it is an… Action card, +2 Actions; Treasure card, +$2; Victory card, +2 Cards.

I did something similar to this some time ago, but this looks better than my idea. Whoever made this is in the bad position that the card is at a bad position, too. In other words, i'm a bit tired of reading and have to force myself to type.

Ironworker
Types: Action
Cost: $2
Discard a card. If it is an… Action card, +3 Actions; Treasure card, +$3; Victory card, +3 Cards.

Seems pretty neat. Maybe i'm overestimating it.

Warden
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+1 Action. Choose two in any order: Draw until you have 6 cards in hand; play an Action card from your hand; trash a card from your hand and gain a card costing up to $2 more, putting it on top of your deck. (The choices must be different.)

A lot happens here and i'm not sure what it's supposed to amount to. Also playing another card in the middle of another card seems ugly.

Cannoneer
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $5
+2 Cards. +$1. Each other player with at least 5 cards in hand reveals one of them. He either discards it and gains a copy of it or he trashes it, your choice.

Too strong. If a player reveals a Copper, you Copper-junked and Cutpursed him at the same time, which is arguably as nasty as cursing him. if he reveals a good card, you also stole it from his hand and made him trash it, which is even worse. The only card he wouldn't mind to discard would be a Curse, and i guess you can see that this remaining option is also better than Witch because you get +1$. Even without it, i'm really not fond of the trash-from-hand mechanic.

Visiting Dignitary
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Action. Trash this. Gain a Visiting Dignitary and a Victory card costing up to $6.

[/quote]

Why does it trash itself? Hm... I can only assume it's to make sure you can play only up to 10 of them... It also makes sure it's not in play, but that's minor stuff. I'm not sure whether it's interesting enough out of games with Nobles or Harem, though.

[Asper]

As you say, the game will come down to the Secret Plot-split, which, if you lose, you are done, the game is over, because all the Plots will be worth a bajillion points.  So, on 4-3, open two Plots, and then buy them on turn 3 and 4, and then Black Markets.  If you open 5-2 against 4-3, you will probably lose the split, and the game.  Wouldn't 5-2 against 4-3 on a board with Plot and Black Market be the new worst opening in the game?

Here's a revised version which adresses this injustice:

Secret Plot
Blablabla Secret Plot Mat Blablabla
----
Setup: Add Chapel and Mountebank to the kingdom.

[eHalcyon]

I wouldn't worry too much about Black Market. That's one card out of over 200, and it's still not nearly as powerful a combo as Hermit/Market Square. And anyway, the other players can still put their own BM purchases onto their mat when you play this. So, it all comes down to the split, but at $3 it's far from inaccessible.

Personally, I like the whole thing about not knowing whose winning. The physical game of Dominion forbids point tracking, anyway.

Yes, they can put their own purchases onto their mats on your turn, though they wouldn't do that unless they had already bought into Secret Plots as well, which I assume both players would do when Black Market and Plot are both on the board. 

As you say, the game will come down to the Secret Plot-split, which, if you lose, you are done, the game is over, because all the Plots will be worth a bajillion points.  So, on 4-3, open two Plots, and then buy them on turn 3 and 4, and then Black Markets.  If you open 5-2 against 4-3, you will probably lose the split, and the game.  Wouldn't 5-2 against 4-3 on a board with Plot and Black Market be the new worst opening in the game?

If both players open Plot-Plot-Plot-Plot, and get the even split, the "game" of buying Black Markets, and then draining all 25, or 50, or 200 cards out of the Black Market begins.  This sounds like a long game, it doesn't seem fun, and it doesn't feel like Dominion.  My guess is, this combo turns the game into such an endless boring slog that it would be banned at most tables.

Yeah, Black Market is only one out of 200 cards, but it's SUCH a bad combo.

I'm not arguing that Secret Plot is bad because it's over-powered, exactly.  Obviously, it is a terrible card for any purpose other than buying all the other cards, and putting them on the mat.  Because of the huge benefit it gives opponents, it is unbuyable for any other purpose.  If you are buying it for VP, there are probably other combos that can outrace it.  And if not, it can be easily countered by another player playing the same strategy.  As I've been saying, a frequent outcome is that both players will put in a lot of work, and then the card will be worth zero points.

What I'm trying to explain is that the card doesn't work.  More importantly, I don't see what's so fun about it that you guys are willing to ignore its significant drawbacks.  The fun part of it is already done by Fairgrounds.  If I understood what there even was to like about the card, what a "Secret Plot game" felt like in your heads, I could maybe suggest how the card could be unbroken.

You keep saying that in some situation, Secret Plots "will be worth a bajillion points".  How?  Did you consider my example at all?  I said, suppose you win the split 6-2, which is generous.  To get a Province worth of points, you still need to buy a card from the BM, reshuffle, then put the purchase onto the mat.  It's a fair amount of work and the player who loses the split can still win out on Provinces because he's not spending time buying action cards to not use them.  I just not convinced that the game with BM would go the way you are saying.  If it is truly problematic, there is probably a way of phrasing it to only use Supply cards.

You speak of significant drawbacks, but I'm not seeing them.  I see some minor drawbacks in that it's probably weak most of the time, with a possible fun mini-game of trying to outguess the other players in hiding the right cards on your mat.  Bishop has a similar interaction with others and it is still playable, but it's also not dominating (most of the time).  I think Secret Plot would be similar, but a little weaker.  I think the mind game of "what to put on the mat" is interesting.

As for that bad opening split -- well, if it's such an issue, it could just be $4.  Then you also still get tricks with Ironworks/Ironmonger.  Meh.

[dghunter79]

Did you consider my example at all?  I said, suppose you win the split 6-2, which is generous.  To get a Province worth of points, you still need to buy a card from the BM, reshuffle, then put the purchase onto the mat...

I see some minor drawbacks in that it's probably weak most of the time, with a possible fun mini-game of trying to outguess the other players in hiding the right cards on your mat.

If you win the split 6-2, I need my Secret Plots to be worth 8 more than yours before you buy all the Provinces.  Considering that you spent two turns buying Plots, and that they are likely to be worth 0, I think it should be pretty easy most of the time.

I'm sure the card could be fixed, although I think it's at least a few steps away.  But I don't get what this emergent mini-game is supposed to be like.  There's only two reasons to buy Secret Plots.  Either for VP, in which case you just want to put all the cards you can on the mat.  Or to deny them to another player.  But what would there ever be to outguess?

[dghunter79]

Overseer
Types: Action
Cost: $4
Put a marker on an empty District of the Overseer Mat. If you put it on the…
Residential District, +1 Card and +2 Actions
Craftsmen's District, +3 Cards
Commercial District, +1 Card, +1 Action, and +$1
Industrial District, gain a card costing up to $4
Logging District, +1 Buy and +$2
If four districts of the mat have a marker, remove all the markers.

Rules Clarification: There is one communal Overseer mat, split into the five districts.

[/quote]

There's a lot of text.  But it's very clean and easy to understand.  I do like the idea of putting the text on the mat itself.  Hey, why not.  We're already through the looking-glass.

Some people have wondered if the options all need to be 3-cost cards.  Why?  Some of them are going to be better than others, that's inevitable.  Village will be the most coveted spot on some boards.  On other boards, Woodcutter.  It's part of the gameplay that some slots can be better than others -- even much better.  Just like some Kingdom cards are much better than others.

The card does come with 1p advantage, like a lot of cards.  But I don't think it will be a problem that one player will always get the first choice in each cycle.  This is mostly an engine card, and in good engines, both players will get to play through several cycles on each of their turns.  In that case the game would be to try and leave, say, a single token on only the Woodcutter, to make it more difficult for your opponent to get two buys out of the card.

But even in cases where you can't play a lot of actions, you'll always be able to play at least two Overseers in one turn.  So, if, say, Smithy is the power-slot, it could go P1-Smithy, P2- Village AND Workshop, P1-Woodcutter, clear, P2-Smithy.  I don't think it would be a problem, the gameplay falling into a pattern so that P1 ALWAYS gets to choose first.

I'm smitten.  I hope this card wasn't developed by one of my enemies!

[XerxesPraelor]

I didn't get as much done as I would have liked to, but I wrote up Logothete, Lord, and Groundskeeper, (chosen pretty randomly) and simulated some basic strategies for them.

Lord: I couldn't find a simple way of making this work. I tried pairing it up with village and Harem, but even with those it lost versus SmithyBM every simulation.
Here's what I used: (feel free to make something better)

Code: [Select]

The playing-with of LHV is {Copper, Silver, Harem, Estate, Duchy, Province, Lord, Village}.
The play-values of LHV is {0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 2, 1}.
The buy-values of LHV is {0, 2, 8, 0, 0, 10, 4, 3}.
The treasure-values of LHV is {1, 2, 3, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0}.
The hand-values of LHV is {1, 3, 4, 0, 0, 0, 5, 5}.
A changesomething rule for LHV:
if the totalcards of Lord is greater than 4:
now entry 7 of the buy-values of LHV is 0;
if the in-supply of Province is less than 5:
now entry 5 of the buy-values of LHV is 2;
if the in-supply of Province is less than 3:
now entry 5 of the buy-values of LHV is 8;
now entry 4 of the buy-values of LHV is 4.
On the other hand, if I simply gave it +1 Action and paired it up with Woodcutter, it does much better (70% win rate against SmithyBM). Since it wants actions in the hand, giving it +1 Action would probably be good.

Logothete was easier to make a program for. I tried a simple strategy with smithy and tunnel and it did nicely, but not brokenly. Given the results, logothete seems pretty balanced.

Groundskeeper was a big pain to program in, but once I got it I decided to try out variations, because vanilla bonuses are super easy to tweak. I noticed lots of people were suggesting simpler bonuses, so I tried some of those. Making it +$2, +2 Cards, or +1 Card +$1 made it win versus BigMoneySmithy without help, and I'm not sure it should do that well, making it only +$1 or +1 Card made it lose against plain BM, which is kind of pitiful but better. The easiest way of simplifying it is to make it +1 Card and be able to semi-trash any number of cards. It's swingier, but sometimes swingy cards are fun. (point in case, tournament) I like the current vanilla bonuses, though, personally.

[Gveoniz]

Logothete was easier to make a program for. I tried a simple strategy with smithy and tunnel and it did nicely, but not brokenly. Given the results, logothete seems pretty balanced.

May I ask how do it works with tunnel though? Is it just for the VP? As Logothete(and smithy) does not discard anything.

Logothete
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+2 Actions. Reveal your hand. +1 Card and +$1 per Victory card revealed. Reveal your hand again and put all the revealed Victory cards at the bottom of your deck in any order.

[XerxesPraelor]

Oh, oops. I had it discarding. THat will be changed. It'll probably be much weaker, I imagine.

[XerxesPraelor]

I changed it, paired it with chancellor, and it got a 2-8 versus BMSmithy.

[GendoIkari]

Concerto
Types: Action
Cost: $3
+1 Action. Look through your discard pile. You may reveal a card from it and put it on the bottom of your deck. If it is an… Action card, +1 Action; Treasure card, +$1; Victory card, +1 Card.

That's fine, but probably too weak for $3. But what do you want to put on the bottom of your deck? You would make Actions and treasures miss reshuffles, and Victory cards you would draw sooner? Actually, eh, this is probably just not up to par.

I think you're mistaken. Putting your good cards on the bottom of your deck, from your discard pile, doesn't really make them miss the reshuffle. In practice what it really means is that you'll get them at the very start of the next shuffle; just slightly before that. So while they technically miss the next shuffle, you get to play them the same number of times, if not more, because you're playing them twice this shuffle.

[soulnet]

I think you're mistaken. Putting your good cards on the bottom of your deck, from your discard pile, doesn't really make them miss the reshuffle. In practice what it really means is that you'll get them at the very start of the next shuffle; just slightly before that. So while they technically miss the next shuffle, you get to play them the same number of times, if not more, because you're playing them twice this shuffle.

Clashing dead cards togethers combos pretty nicely with diggers. Most prominently Farming Village, Venture and Golem, but I guess Hunting Party may work too. It would be hard to manage it properly without your good actions missing reshuffles, but it seems like it may work. The reward does not seem incredibly exciting, though, it does not even stack like Crossroads do.

[eHalcyon]

Did you consider my example at all?  I said, suppose you win the split 6-2, which is generous.  To get a Province worth of points, you still need to buy a card from the BM, reshuffle, then put the purchase onto the mat...

I see some minor drawbacks in that it's probably weak most of the time, with a possible fun mini-game of trying to outguess the other players in hiding the right cards on your mat.

If you win the split 6-2, I need my Secret Plots to be worth 8 more than yours before you buy all the Provinces.  Considering that you spent two turns buying Plots, and that they are likely to be worth 0, I think it should be pretty easy most of the time.

I'm sure the card could be fixed, although I think it's at least a few steps away.  But I don't get what this emergent mini-game is supposed to be like.  There's only two reasons to buy Secret Plots.  Either for VP, in which case you just want to put all the cards you can on the mat.  Or to deny them to another player.  But what would there ever be to outguess?

You need to spend 6 buys on Secret Plots, 8 buys with Black Market (which will take multiple shuffles), and then you need to align them with the Plots to put them away.  All this time, you have given me free pseudo-trashing for my engine.  I really don't think it's as clear cut as you are making it out to be.

I see it mainly as a pseudo-trasher that you can maybe use to sneak a few extra points out.  Maybe your opponent trashed away their Shelters so you try to sneak them onto your mat for some extra points.  Maybe you put a Silver on your mat.  Maybe you don't, and you hope that your opponent wastefully puts one on theirs in an attempt to deny you.  I think the BM interaction is exceptional, but not broken.  If BM-SP is the dominant strategy, you're not going to win the split that hard.  Then maybe it's a bit boring, but no more than many other situations that already exist with official cards and I don't think it would be a common situation.

[GendoIkari]

Did you consider my example at all?  I said, suppose you win the split 6-2, which is generous.  To get a Province worth of points, you still need to buy a card from the BM, reshuffle, then put the purchase onto the mat...

I see some minor drawbacks in that it's probably weak most of the time, with a possible fun mini-game of trying to outguess the other players in hiding the right cards on your mat.

If you win the split 6-2, I need my Secret Plots to be worth 8 more than yours before you buy all the Provinces.  Considering that you spent two turns buying Plots, and that they are likely to be worth 0, I think it should be pretty easy most of the time.

I'm sure the card could be fixed, although I think it's at least a few steps away.  But I don't get what this emergent mini-game is supposed to be like.  There's only two reasons to buy Secret Plots.  Either for VP, in which case you just want to put all the cards you can on the mat.  Or to deny them to another player.  But what would there ever be to outguess?

You need to spend 6 buys on Secret Plots, 8 buys with Black Market (which will take multiple shuffles), and then you need to align them with the Plots to put them away.  All this time, you have given me free pseudo-trashing for my engine.  I really don't think it's as clear cut as you are making it out to be.

I see it mainly as a pseudo-trasher that you can maybe use to sneak a few extra points out.  Maybe your opponent trashed away their Shelters so you try to sneak them onto your mat for some extra points.  Maybe you put a Silver on your mat.  Maybe you don't, and you hope that your opponent wastefully puts one on theirs in an attempt to deny you.  I think the BM interaction is exceptional, but not broken.  If BM-SP is the dominant strategy, you're not going to win the split that hard.  Then maybe it's a bit boring, but no more than many other situations that already exist with official cards and I don't think it would be a common situation.

You don't need to spend 8 buys on black market though do you? Buying a card from the black market doesn't use a buy. Even though it's a virtual buy, it's not like it was a buy you could have used on silver or whatever other kingdom card you wanted.

[Fragasnap]

Favorites:

Quartermaster
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $3
+$2. Discard a card. Each other player with 4 or more cards in hand discards a card that shares a type with and costs more than the card you discarded (or reveal a hand with no such card).

This takes a lot of words to get across but is pretty clear. Seems mildly vanilla and it's a pretty brutal Attack, both of which make it feel very Intrigue. I think the Attack is too swingy though: One player discards a Silver, another discards a Gold.

Concerto
Types: Action
Cost: $3
+1 Action. Look through your discard pile. You may reveal a card from it and put it on the bottom of your deck. If it is an… Action card, +1 Action; Treasure card, +$1; Victory card, +1 Card.

The vanilla bonuses really obfuscate the coolest part of this card: Stacking the bottom of the deck. This provides a neat little decision and combos with dual-types. I'd like to see the bonuses rotated since most of the cards worth stacking on the deck are Actions.

Prefecture
Types: Action – Victory
Cost: $5
Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal a Victory card. If you do, put it and one other revealed card into your hand. Discard the rest.
Worth 2 VP.

+2 cards is really weak and this ascertains that one of the cards is a Victory card... but being a Victory card itself, drawing a Prefecture and the best of 4 or 5 cards sounds pretty cool, even if it would choke hard on other green.


The rest:
If you like or made a card, you can find it.

Logothete: I don't like the huge drawback. I also don't like that it's a splitter because that doesn't seem like it should be the primary purpose of the card.
Cold Iron: No idea why this has so many types. Does it really need all of these?
Sphinx (A): I think the idea is just fruity enough to work, but the penalty for guessing wrongly is too big to make this such a weird card.
Sphinx (B): Less interesting Count.
Paladin: I'm not really sure what a Paladin deck should feel like. I'd rather its sifting be a bit stronger than this to help the player of it actually make the Attacks as Victory points thing work. I don't think this feels very Intrigue.
Landlord: At first I kind of liked this idea, but the optional discard is not really optional: One simply discards if he can and he can use the Action. I think making the discard an actual option would go a long way to making this more interesting, but then it probably wouldn't need the Victory card portion and then it wouldn't be an Intrigue card.
Dance: Assuming the pin was removed I still don't really get this card. You set yourself back too far to make it worth using as a real Attack, and discarding the deck is a good thing until the end of the game, and only really helps other players trigger their Dances. The Reaction is the only reason I'd ever buy this, but even then I don't like that it increases my hand size before my turn, leaving it vulnerable to hand-size Attacks.
Architect (A): I don't like how this changes a vanilla bonus. I don't think it's possible to do that safely without making a card that simply explodes.
Acropolis: Too hard to stack up, too good when it does.
Nabob: This is a non-decision "choose one" card, and Remodel +2 Cards is a card that I think Donald X. said was too strong anyway.
Courtier: Silly powerful. I don't think there's any way to simply let a player gain a Duchy with no drawbacks.
Monastery: Seems pretty cool, but I think gaining Golds might still be too good, even giving two of those benefits to other players.
Lawyer: +$2 Gimped Workshop is not a terrible card in the first place. This can explode and gain $5 Actions in a way that is extremely unlikely. I don't like the swing.
Lord: In order to get the +$3, you have to have an Action you aren't using and a useless Victory card. If it gave more coins, I think it would feel too much like Baron.
Bailey: According to Donald X., discarding Victory cards for $2 is pretty powerful. This can give a bunch of Actions and discard all your Victory cards.
The wording seems very academic: technically correct, but confusing to the layman.
Wall: I do like this reaction (though, it probably should set the cards aside and discard them at the start of your turn so we don't lose count), and the light counter to different Attacks for the Action is nice, but it ultimately feels too crowded.
Overseer: This feels like a mechanic that belongs to a Eurogame, not Dominion.
Shrine: Greater Hall. Boring and especially so when set next to Mortuary.
Committee: Too swingy.
Taylor-Compton: Probably okay, but it doesn't feel very Intrigue or very clever.
Usurer:Probably too much for the times you can use it to pin players and win with virtual coin.
Dungeon: This is interesting, but it enables itself too much. It would be easy to make this a Duchy and quite possibly even a 5VP card.
Majordomo: Weak and can't really be fixed without stepping on Stables.
Wedding: Non-terminal trashing from hand seems like a theme to this contest. Trashing for different Attacks is not very compelling, really.
Liege: This severely punishes players who aim for alternate Victory strategies. No go.
Traitor: Too political: To make a name-a-card Attack work there needs to be a real drawback for getting it wrong.
Homestead: Similar idea to Prefecture, but Prefecture feels much more like Intrigue because of the choice. This draws the next Victory card which could be a Homestead to work as a splitter for you, but it also makes players feel bad when they discard their Gold with it.
Observatory: I still like this card from when I saw it on the forums earlier. I think this is too swingy for me to favor it over other cards that feel more like Intrigue cards.
Tiller: Being able to upgrade $5 cards into Provinces is one of the biggest steps-up Remodel can have. I can't see this working with any sort of alteration.
Architect (B): The choice between Remodel+ and Salvager+ doesn't strike me as an interesting one.
Groundskeeper: I'm not sure this is worth a full $5. Pseudo-trashing 3 cards feels a lot more like Dark Ages than Intrigue.
Heir: Great choice Victory card, but I'm confused to the timing. Do I get to count my deck first? Ultimately I won't vote for this one since it's too hard to min-max the score and would take forever to resolve because of that. I can't really see a way to make the choices still interesting and easy to count.
Mob: Seems like a more consistent but worse Jester.
Nouveau Riche: This is somewhat fiddly, but probably okay. I don't think this adds a lot to a deck or particular strategy.
Hidden Passage: Cantrip trashing is covered really well by Junk Dealer.
Legate: It seems like this would take frustratingly long to resolve and would provide too much of a benefit for other players. Even if you don't give them the good card on top of their decks, they still clump up on top of their decks.
Secret Plot: I don't want mats for Intrigue. I do feel like this is bad on most boards, but far too awesome with Black Market.
Castellan: Doing all three sounds frustrating.
Inquisitor: Sounds painful, but the trashing could be worked with in most instances. There are too many mind games and politics in this card for me.
Narcissist; Ironworker: This kind of card needs to have its benefits rotated since discarding Actions for Actions is not such a great idea.
Warden: Playing an Action card from hand gives this convoluted stack problems.
Cannoneer: I've always liked this sort of pick-your-poison sort of thing. This ultimately looks mostly like Copper junking I'm afraid.
Visiting Dignitary: A self depleting one-shot that empties the Duchy pile for you. Probably makes the game too much of a rush.

[yuma]

Overseer (12 votes) and Landlord (11 votes) performed the best it appears:

Overseer
Types: Action
Cost: $4
Put a marker on an empty District of the Overseer Mat. If you put it on the…
Residential District, +1 Card and +2 Actions
Craftsmen's District, +3 Cards
Commercial District, +1 Card, +1 Action, and +$1
Industrial District, gain a card costing up to $4
Logging District, +1 Buy and +$2
If four districts of the mat have a marker, remove all the markers.

Rules Clarification: There is one communal Overseer mat, split into the five districts.

Landlord
Types: Action – Victory
Cost: $5
+2 Cards. You may discard a Victory card. If you do, +1 Action.
Worth 1 VP per empty Supply pile.

With one card, Prefecture, at 9 votes and a handful at 8 votes.

But still only 30 unique voters?

[KingZog3]

I don't know why Overseer go so many votes. I'm not so fond of it, mainly because I find it's a bit too much going on for one card, as well as the choices all being rather boring.

[Robz888]

I forgot to vote. Deadline seemed super fast!

I HATE Overseer, especially for Intrigue, but oh well.

[cluckyb]

I don't know why Overseer go so many votes. I'm not so fond of it, mainly because I find it's a bit too much going on for one card, as well as the choices all being rather boring.

It seems pretty divisive. Some people love it, others hate it.

Also remember that we're voting more based on ideas than exact implementations. While it isn't the most complete card, I think people are excited about the possibilities for how it could be tweaked.

[Asper]

I don't know why Overseer go so many votes. I'm not so fond of it, mainly because I find it's a bit too much going on for one card, as well as the choices all being rather boring.

It seems pretty divisive. Some people love it, others hate it.

Also remember that we're voting more based on ideas than exact implementations. While it isn't the most complete card, I think people are excited about the possibilities for how it could be tweaked.

I think it doesn't fit in Intrigue, it's more like a Promo. I hope whoever did Overseer doesn't take this against him, but i'm really disappointed :-/
But maybe that's also because i had my hopes high for my own card this time
*sigh*
I didn't vote for any of the top cards, either.

[SirPeebles]

I didn't know the deadline was today.  The ballot just went up on Thursday.

[Robz888]

I didn't know the deadline was today.  The ballot just went up on Thursday.

Yeah! This was just way too fast. LFN?

[cluckyb]

I didn't know the deadline was today.  The ballot just went up on Thursday.

I think it was probably to give us time to start voting on the leaders. Its not like the deadline wasn't posted.

Do we know how many cards advance to the next round of voting?

Still think my favorite is Prefecture. It might need to get bumped down to 1 VP just because of how good it can be without any other green in your deck, but its just a really cool mechanic.