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[Showdown35]

Well, I'm very happy with all the discussion in the first 2 posts, and I find it all very helpful.  I am very gracious to all who are offering feedback on my Fan Set work in progress.  I hope you all find it interesting and fun to check out what I'm coming up with, and are not annoyed with all my posts, please let me know if you feel I'm gumming up this board with stuff you are not interested in.

Anyway, a couple more cards for you to check out and hopefully offer comments and criticisms (I'm a big boy, I can take it).

Seer
$3 - Action-Attack
+1 Card, +1 Action
Each other player reveals their hand.

A pretty basic cantrip with a small benefit that will sometimes not matter at all, but (especially with some of the attacks I plan for this set) will sometimes help make informed decisions on what actions to play on your turn.


Forgery Artist
$4 - Action
You may discard an Action card from your hand. If you do, gain a copy of it.

Like a mint for actions.  The drawback being that you have to discard the action instead of just revealing it. Not sure if I should price this at $5 to match Mint, but for some reason copying actions doesn't seem as strong as copying treasure. Thoughts?

[eHalcyon]

Seer probably works fine at $2.  It's so very niche.

"Minting" actions has a pretty wide range of usefulness.  In some cases it's terrible, in order cases it could be pretty crazy good.  Having to discard the action is a good check on potential craziness.  I don't really know how it would play.  Note that Mint is most useful not for copying Treasures (though that can be handy) but for Copper trashing.

[Showdown35]

Seer probably works fine at $2.  It's so very niche.

"Minting" actions has a pretty wide range of usefulness.  In some cases it's terrible, in order cases it could be pretty crazy good.  Having to discard the action is a good check on potential craziness.  I don't really know how it would play.  Note that Mint is most useful not for copying Treasures (though that can be handy) but for Copper trashing.

I priced Seer at $3 to keep it on par with cantrips with situational bonuses like Wishing Well, widely considered a very solid and useful card if I'm not mistaken (which I am), but perhaps it would be best to align the cost with another cantrip+bonus in Pearl Diver, another card widely considered solid and useful!

[GendoIkari]

Seer probably works fine at $2.  It's so very niche.

"Minting" actions has a pretty wide range of usefulness.  In some cases it's terrible, in order cases it could be pretty crazy good.  Having to discard the action is a good check on potential craziness.  I don't really know how it would play.  Note that Mint is most useful not for copying Treasures (though that can be handy) but for Copper trashing.

I priced Seer at $3 to keep it on par with cantrips with situational bonuses like Wishing Well, widely considered a very solid and useful card if I'm not mistaken (which I am), but perhaps it would be best to align the cost with another cantrip+bonus in Pearl Diver, another card widely considered solid and useful!

Seer is probably a little weaker than Pearl Diver. (Not sure if you were being sarcastic, but Pearl Diver is NOT considered solid and useful. Wishing Well, on the other hand, is). So yeah, it's probably ok at $2, but still quite weak. It's nice to have near the end of the game, for things like breaking PPR, but otherwise it just won't help much.

I think Minting actions is generally stronger than Minting Treasures. However, the fact that you have to discard it as opposed to Mint's reveal probably means it works at $4.

[Showdown35]

Seer probably works fine at $2.  It's so very niche.

"Minting" actions has a pretty wide range of usefulness.  In some cases it's terrible, in order cases it could be pretty crazy good.  Having to discard the action is a good check on potential craziness.  I don't really know how it would play.  Note that Mint is most useful not for copying Treasures (though that can be handy) but for Copper trashing.

I priced Seer at $3 to keep it on par with cantrips with situational bonuses like Wishing Well, widely considered a very solid and useful card if I'm not mistaken (which I am), but perhaps it would be best to align the cost with another cantrip+bonus in Pearl Diver, another card widely considered solid and useful!

Seer is probably a little weaker than Pearl Diver. (Not sure if you were being sarcastic, but Pearl Diver is NOT considered solid and useful. Wishing Well, on the other hand, is). So yeah, it's probably ok at $2, but still quite weak. It's nice to have near the end of the game, for things like breaking PPR, but otherwise it just won't help much.

I think Minting actions is generally stronger than Minting Treasures. However, the fact that you have to discard it as opposed to Mint's reveal probably means it works at $4.

Yes, I was being very sarcastic, as I've read arguments on these forums about the effectiveness of both Wishing Well and Pearl Diver (which is way I sarcastically used the word "widely" on both counts).

Seer's usefulness would be evident in situations where you have 2 terminal actions in hand (after just playing Seer) one of which would benefit you less, but has a chance to delay or stunt opponent's progress... An example would be, you just played Seer, you have a Chancellor and a Militia in hand.  Which do you play? They both get you +$2.  You want to cycle your deck, but you also want to Militia your opponents so they can't buy a gold this turn... Seer just showed you that one opponent has a Moat, and the other has two Estates in hand. Chancellor it is!

And if you read my previous posts, Seer would combo well with Nomadic Tribe, as knowing your opponents hands would greatly affect your decision to play it or not. I also plan on having other cards in this set that would want to know your opponents hands to control the risk of playing it.

[eHalcyon]

Seer probably works fine at $2.  It's so very niche.

"Minting" actions has a pretty wide range of usefulness.  In some cases it's terrible, in order cases it could be pretty crazy good.  Having to discard the action is a good check on potential craziness.  I don't really know how it would play.  Note that Mint is most useful not for copying Treasures (though that can be handy) but for Copper trashing.

I priced Seer at $3 to keep it on par with cantrips with situational bonuses like Wishing Well, widely considered a very solid and useful card if I'm not mistaken (which I am), but perhaps it would be best to align the cost with another cantrip+bonus in Pearl Diver, another card widely considered solid and useful!

Seer is probably a little weaker than Pearl Diver. (Not sure if you were being sarcastic, but Pearl Diver is NOT considered solid and useful. Wishing Well, on the other hand, is). So yeah, it's probably ok at $2, but still quite weak. It's nice to have near the end of the game, for things like breaking PPR, but otherwise it just won't help much.

I think Minting actions is generally stronger than Minting Treasures. However, the fact that you have to discard it as opposed to Mint's reveal probably means it works at $4.

Yes, I was being very sarcastic, as I've read arguments on these forums about the effectiveness of both Wishing Well and Pearl Diver (which is way I sarcastically used the word "widely" on both counts).

Seer's usefulness would be evident in situations where you have 2 terminal actions in hand (after just playing Seer) one of which would benefit you less, but has a chance to delay or stunt opponent's progress... An example would be, you just played Seer, you have a Chancellor and a Militia in hand.  Which do you play? They both get you +$2.  You want to cycle your deck, but you also want to Militia your opponents so they can't buy a gold this turn... Seer just showed you that one opponent has a Moat, and the other has two Estates in hand. Chancellor it is!

Yes... but that's an extremely niche use case.  You might not even have Seer in your hand on a turn where it might matter, or maybe you only have Militia anyway, or maybe it reveals something that doesn't really change your strategy at all.  It's just not going to make a difference enough of a time to warrant buying it over Silver.  At $2, maybe it's an OK pickup in certain special circumstances.

[Showdown35]

Seer probably works fine at $2.  It's so very niche.

"Minting" actions has a pretty wide range of usefulness.  In some cases it's terrible, in order cases it could be pretty crazy good.  Having to discard the action is a good check on potential craziness.  I don't really know how it would play.  Note that Mint is most useful not for copying Treasures (though that can be handy) but for Copper trashing.

I priced Seer at $3 to keep it on par with cantrips with situational bonuses like Wishing Well, widely considered a very solid and useful card if I'm not mistaken (which I am), but perhaps it would be best to align the cost with another cantrip+bonus in Pearl Diver, another card widely considered solid and useful!

Seer is probably a little weaker than Pearl Diver. (Not sure if you were being sarcastic, but Pearl Diver is NOT considered solid and useful. Wishing Well, on the other hand, is). So yeah, it's probably ok at $2, but still quite weak. It's nice to have near the end of the game, for things like breaking PPR, but otherwise it just won't help much.

I think Minting actions is generally stronger than Minting Treasures. However, the fact that you have to discard it as opposed to Mint's reveal probably means it works at $4.

Yes, I was being very sarcastic, as I've read arguments on these forums about the effectiveness of both Wishing Well and Pearl Diver (which is way I sarcastically used the word "widely" on both counts).

Seer's usefulness would be evident in situations where you have 2 terminal actions in hand (after just playing Seer) one of which would benefit you less, but has a chance to delay or stunt opponent's progress... An example would be, you just played Seer, you have a Chancellor and a Militia in hand.  Which do you play? They both get you +$2.  You want to cycle your deck, but you also want to Militia your opponents so they can't buy a gold this turn... Seer just showed you that one opponent has a Moat, and the other has two Estates in hand. Chancellor it is!

Yes... but that's an extremely niche use case.  You might not even have Seer in your hand on a turn where it might matter, or maybe you only have Militia anyway, or maybe it reveals something that doesn't really change your strategy at all.  It's just not going to make a difference enough of a time to warrant buying it over Silver.  At $2, maybe it's an OK pickup in certain special circumstances.

Yes, I completely agree with you, and I actually changed the cost to $2 shortly after your first post. I was just stating the cases where it would be useful, much like Wishing Well and Pearl Diver, which are also Niche type cards. It also makes perfect sense within the set I'm designing it for, so those Niche situations shouldn't be so... Niche!... hmmm, Niche, fun word.

[Awaclus]

I think that Seer is powerful (not too powerful, but powerful enough) at $2. Also, I personally prefer the card without the Attack subtype (Possession also lets you take a look at an opponent's hand and isn't an Attack, and I think it's more interesting if it can't be blocked with Moat/Lighthouse - though, I can see why you would want to make this trigger Horse Traders' reaction), but that's a matter of opinion.

I actually have been wishing that this card existed in official Dominion, and I think that the uses for this card aren't as niche as they might seem. First of all, it's always useful in end game tactics, and with Possession, deck manipulation attacks, Council Room, Soothsayer and Governor, Masquerade, Bishop, against Envoy and Advisor, against an incoming Cultist chain when you have $3 and a Watchtower in hand, etc it's even more useful.

[Showdown35]

I suppose the Attack could be removed. Thats interesting. Technically the card isn't attacking anyone, just looking. Flavorwise and mechanics wise. Its not like a moat would stop a Seer from seeing stuff in his own crystal ball.

[LastFootnote]

I'm not a huge fan of a card that just looks at other players' hands. For one thing, it makes the game a bit more political because you're more likely to play the terminals that will work best against the player you think is in the lead. But that's just my opinion, and I'm probably overreacting.

I agree that it should probably not be an Attack and that you could change it to $2. However, I also have another suggested change.

Seer
Types: Action
Cost: $?
+1 Card. +1 Action.
While this is in play, each other player reveals his hand.

So while you have a Seer on the table, each other player plays open-handed. The reason I think this way is better is a logistical one. Otherwise there's the question of, "How long do I have to reveal my hand?" Also, with your version you're incentivized to make them reveal their hands for a long time until you've memorized them all. Slows the game down.

I'll comment Forgery Artist later.

[LastFootnote]

OK, it's later. Let's talk about Forgery Artist.

In the early days of Dominion, Donald tested this exact card, only it cost $3 instead of $4. It was a dud. So chances are good that you're going to want to change it.

In my expansion, I have/had a card called Surveyor that looks like this:

Surveyor
Types: Action
Cost: $2
+2 Cards. You may discard a card that is not a Victory card. If you do, gain a copy of that card and trash this.

A lot of people online seem to like it, but playtesting tells me that it's also a dud. People just didn't ever buy it. At one point I changed it to a non-one-shot version.

Surveyor
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+2 Cards. You may discard a card that is not a Victory card. Gain a copy of it.

I didn't get to playtest that one as much, but it didn't seem obviously overpowered. It looks strong, right? But it's not that powerful since you're usually giving up playing the card this shuffle in order to gain another copy of it.

I think the ultimate problem with this kind of card is that people would rather play their Action cards than discard them, even if discarding them nets them another copy. That's probably a fixable problem. If you reveal or even play the Action card rather than discarding it, that could work. You'd just have to rebalance the card around that.

Hopefully this info helps. Good luck!

[Showdown35]

Certainly does! Thanks again for all the comments!  I'm going to post the next 2 cards... later (which will be a couple minutes!)

[Showdown35]

What do you think of this?:

Forgery Artist
$4 - Action
Choose an Action card in your discard pile. If you do, gain a copy of it.