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[Emeric]

I read in another thread that Guilds is not avalaible in Germany. It is the same in France. I asked the French Language editor about this and he answerded me "not before 2014".
Is there someone who knows why for this extension, German and French Language are so delayed ?

[lespeutere]

In Germany, it's probably due to the breakup of RGG and the former publisher HiG. There is a rumour, Guilds will be available at Spiel in Essen in October.

[Awaclus]

The Finnish translation was supposed to be released in August originally, but hasn't been released yet and currently lautapelit.fi says it's going to be released this month.

[SCSN]

The Dutch version has been out for awhile now and it features some notable improvements over the English edition. A particular nice example is how the translator considered the English Stonemason to be a bit weak, and kindly tweaked the wording so that its Dutch brother enables you to double Province for $10, or get you two Platina for the price of one + a little tip.

[werothegreat]

The Dutch version has been out for awhile now and it features some notable improvements over the English edition. A particular nice example is how the translator considered the English Stonemason to be a bit weak, and kindly tweaked the wording so that its Dutch brother enables you to double Province for $10, or get you two Platina for the price of one + a little tip.

Um...  that translator should be fired.

[SirPeebles]

The Dutch version has been out for awhile now and it features some notable improvements over the English edition. A particular nice example is how the translator considered the English Stonemason to be a bit weak, and kindly tweaked the wording so that its Dutch brother enables you to double Province for $10, or get you two Platina for the price of one + a little tip.

Um...  that translator should be fired.

He or she will never translate another Dominion expansion!

[florrat]

The Dutch version has been out for awhile now and it features some notable improvements over the English edition. A particular nice example is how the translator considered the English Stonemason to be a bit weak, and kindly tweaked the wording so that its Dutch brother enables you to double Province for $10, or get you two Platina for the price of one + a little tip.

Ah, probably he did that to make up for the fact that he made Urchin terminal (giving +buy instead of +action).

[Davio]

Well, it's certainly less helpful than trashing your own Treasure cards with Pirate Ship!

[Warfreak2]

Is it the German Dark Ages which lets you gain any type of card with Procession?

[Watno]

Yes

[Kirian]

Maybe they need to hire translators who can distinguish between simple English words?  Seriously, how do you type "+1 Kaufe" instead of "+1 Aktion"?

[lespeutere]

Well, we've been amazed by this for 4 years now..

[kn1tt3r]

Some, more subtle, mistakes in the German translations were due to the creative approach to explain the rules in a more understandable way. For example, about the difference between 'gain" and 'buy' the base set rulebook says something like "GAIN happens during your action phase, BUY happens during your buy phase". Hey, that easy!

They kept holding on to that until Hinterlands (ignoring rules issues with some Prosperity cards for example), when they teeth-gnashingly submitted a rules revision (or something like that) explaining the "new" meanings of 'gain' and 'buy'. They must have felt like being betrayed by their own wits.

[Kirian]

I now begin to wonder about books translated into other languages.  Do the translators get "creative" for those as well?  Does the Dutch version of Harry Potter have an invincibility cloak instead of an invisibility cloak?  Is the French version of a Dan Brown book actually readable?  Is the Russian version of Twilight three times as long and contain two hundred pages of commentary on economic systems?

And going the other direction, is the original Italian version of Foucault's Pendulum actually as crazily messed-up as the English version was?  Because that was pretty trippy.

[GendoIkari]

Well, it's certainly less helpful than trashing your own Treasure cards with Pirate Ship!

Hmm, I have to wonder how this version of PS would play. Seems like it would actually be really strong... trash your own Coppers, thus play your Pirate Ship more. Of course it doesn't slow down your opponent, but I bet it would be pretty fast.

[Voltaire]

Wait...this thread isn't a joke? 

[Awaclus]

Wait...this thread isn't a joke? 

Nope, it's not a joke, but do you want me to explain it anyway?

[Kirian]

Wait...this thread isn't a joke? 

Nope, it's not a joke, but do you want me to explain it anyway?

Kirian has punched you in the nuts.

[Watno]

I'm also puzzled how someone translating games can not know that it might not be a good idea to ignore the "may" in a card's text.

This happens in other games as well. In Ghost stories, the English rules tell you to reduce a monster's strength "to 1" instead of "by one".

[ConMan]

I now begin to wonder about books translated into other languages.  Do the translators get "creative" for those as well?  Does the Dutch version of Harry Potter have an invincibility cloak instead of an invisibility cloak?  Is the French version of a Dan Brown book actually readable?  Is the Russian version of Twilight three times as long and contain two hundred pages of commentary on economic systems?

And going the other direction, is the original Italian version of Foucault's Pendulum actually as crazily messed-up as the English version was?  Because that was pretty trippy.

Terry Pratchett wrote a bit about some of the translations of the Discworld novels (I think it was an appendix to one version of the Discworld Companion), and apparently they were generally quite faithful to the plot and characters, but also very creative regarding the wordplay, of which there is a lot. The example he gave was, IIRC, in a joke about the Great A'Tuin (the turtle on which the Discworld rests) and a theory in which it would find another world turtle and mate, often referred to as the "Big Bang" Theory. The Dutch translator took the Dutch term for the real Big Bang Theory, and modified it to something that roughly translates as the "making love outwards model".

Anime journalist / translator / voice actor Jonathan Clements also gave an address to student translators about actually working as a translator, and part of it was talking about the changes you have to make when translating to make something that sounds right in the new language, as opposed to being a slavish literal translation of the original. I'm not sure if it's online, but it's in his book "Schoolgirl Milky Crisis".

However, both of these are examples of creativity coming from necessity, and neither is particularly appropriate when talking about board games that need very exact translations to make sure the rules play the same in all languages.

[werothegreat]

I now begin to wonder about books translated into other languages.  Do the translators get "creative" for those as well?  Does the Dutch version of Harry Potter have an invincibility cloak instead of an invisibility cloak?  Is the French version of a Dan Brown book actually readable?  Is the Russian version of Twilight three times as long and contain two hundred pages of commentary on economic systems?

And going the other direction, is the original Italian version of Foucault's Pendulum actually as crazily messed-up as the English version was?  Because that was pretty trippy.

Terry Pratchett wrote a bit about some of the translations of the Discworld novels (I think it was an appendix to one version of the Discworld Companion), and apparently they were generally quite faithful to the plot and characters, but also very creative regarding the wordplay, of which there is a lot. The example he gave was, IIRC, in a joke about the Great A'Tuin (the turtle on which the Discworld rests) and a theory in which it would find another world turtle and mate, often referred to as the "Big Bang" Theory. The Dutch translator took the Dutch term for the real Big Bang Theory, and modified it to something that roughly translates as the "making love outwards model".

Anime journalist / translator / voice actor Jonathan Clements also gave an address to student translators about actually working as a translator, and part of it was talking about the changes you have to make when translating to make something that sounds right in the new language, as opposed to being a slavish literal translation of the original. I'm not sure if it's online, but it's in his book "Schoolgirl Milky Crisis".

However, both of these are examples of creativity coming from necessity, and neither is particularly appropriate when talking about board games that need very exact translations to make sure the rules play the same in all languages.

In the French version of Harry Potter, the Sorting Hat is "choipeau" a portmanteau of "choix" (choice) and "chapeau" (hat), which I think works quite well.  There are similar such things throughout the translation.

[Davio]

Well, it's certainly less helpful than trashing your own Treasure cards with Pirate Ship!

Hmm, I have to wonder how this version of PS would play. Seems like it would actually be really strong... trash your own Coppers, thus play your Pirate Ship more. Of course it doesn't slow down your opponent, but I bet it would be pretty fast.

Well, you trash both your own and other people's Treasure, so it's even stronger than that.

[qmech]

Is the French version of a Dan Brown book actually readable? 

Seems unlikely, no?

[Beyond Awesome]

I now begin to wonder about books translated into other languages.  Do the translators get "creative" for those as well?  Does the Dutch version of Harry Potter have an invincibility cloak instead of an invisibility cloak?  Is the French version of a Dan Brown book actually readable?  Is the Russian version of Twilight three times as long and contain two hundred pages of commentary on economic systems?

And going the other direction, is the original Italian version of Foucault's Pendulum actually as crazily messed-up as the English version was?  Because that was pretty trippy.

For what's it worth, Harry Potter is translated from British English into American English. And, the Philosopher's Stone was renamed the Sorcerer's Stone. That was probably the biggest translation difference between the 7 books.

[Awaclus]

I now begin to wonder about books translated into other languages.  Do the translators get "creative" for those as well?  Does the Dutch version of Harry Potter have an invincibility cloak instead of an invisibility cloak?  Is the French version of a Dan Brown book actually readable?  Is the Russian version of Twilight three times as long and contain two hundred pages of commentary on economic systems?

And going the other direction, is the original Italian version of Foucault's Pendulum actually as crazily messed-up as the English version was?  Because that was pretty trippy.

For what's it worth, Harry Potter is translated from British English into American English.

Does British English usually get translated into American English, or the other way around?

[LastFootnote]

I now begin to wonder about books translated into other languages.  Do the translators get "creative" for those as well?  Does the Dutch version of Harry Potter have an invincibility cloak instead of an invisibility cloak?  Is the French version of a Dan Brown book actually readable?  Is the Russian version of Twilight three times as long and contain two hundred pages of commentary on economic systems?

And going the other direction, is the original Italian version of Foucault's Pendulum actually as crazily messed-up as the English version was?  Because that was pretty trippy.

For what's it worth, Harry Potter is translated from British English into American English. And, the Philosopher's Stone was renamed the Sorcerer's Stone. That was probably the biggest translation difference between the 7 books.

Why the hell did they change that, anyway? It wasn't a translation, just a nonsensical, arbitrary change. We've heard of the philosopher's stone here in the US. The "sorceror's stone" is just made-up BS.

[GeoLib]

Why the hell did they change that, anyway? It wasn't a translation, just a nonsensical, arbitrary change. We've heard of the philosopher's stone here in the US. The "sorceror's stone" is just made-up BS.

I think publishers thought "sorcerer" would appeal to kids more than "philosopher"
It's kind of sad...

[ConMan]

Does British English usually get translated into American English, or the other way around?

I've only ever heard of books written in British English getting modified for the American market, and never the reverse. Apparently all British (and Australian, and New Zealander, and ...) people are fluent in both dialects, whereas Americans get confused when words have too many "u"s or "s"s instead of "z"s.

[WalrusMcFishSr]

And we don't like you calling them "zeds" either

[ipofanes]

I now begin to wonder about books translated into other languages.  Do the translators get "creative" for those as well?  Does the Dutch version of Harry Potter have an invincibility cloak instead of an invisibility cloak?  Is the French version of a Dan Brown book actually readable?  Is the Russian version of Twilight three times as long and contain two hundred pages of commentary on economic systems?

And going the other direction, is the original Italian version of Foucault's Pendulum actually as crazily messed-up as the English version was?  Because that was pretty trippy.

There are incredible mistakes translators make, for instance the German translator of Extremely Loud and Incredibly Close had no idea what a Googolplex is. He could simply have googoled for it, für laut auszuschreien!

Recently I read a book where I admired the translator for their natural flow of words, but I never remember the positive examples. I think it was 1Q84 by Murakami.

[ipofanes]

Guilds is the expansion that works least well in other cultures no matter the availability of translations. The Butcher, Baker, Candlestick Maker thing is totally lost on me as a German. I bet 80 percent of German Dominion players will think "wieso Kerzenhalterfertiger"?

[Watno]

There are incredible mistakes translators make, for instance the German translator of Extremely Loud and Incredibly Close had no idea what a Googolplex is. He could simply have googoled for it, für laut auszuschreien!

What did it become?

Another fun translation: In German Harry Potter, "twelve uses of dragonblood" became "sechs Anwendungen von Drachenmilch" ("6 uses of drogon milk"). Even worse, in a later volume, it was correctly translated. Why would one do such a thing?

[ipofanes]

There are incredible mistakes translators make, for instance the German translator of Extremely Loud and Incredibly Close had no idea what a Googolplex is. He could simply have googoled for it, für laut auszuschreien!

What did it become?

Something hideous like "ein Googol für die Macht eines Googols". Ruined the reading experience of the whole novel for me, along with multiplying the elevator speed, or was it acceleration, by a factor of 1000. That said, translators are paid shit, and you can only afford to put as much work into it as it should take if you are the heir of a publishing house.

[Watno]

The German edition has been confirmed for Essen, along with a base game with the new design of the base cards:
http://www.dominion-welt.de/index.html

[Dsell]

The German edition has been confirmed for Essen, along with a base game with the new design of the base cards:
http://www.dominion-welt.de/index.html

I love the way the German boxes look. None of those silly banners.

[Awaclus]

The Finnish edition has been delayed until November.

[Kirian]

The Finnish edition has been delayed until November.

I guess they couldn't finnish it in time.

[SirPeebles]

The Finnish edition has been delayed until November.

I guess they couldn't finnish it in time.

Better trans-late than never.

[Emeric]

For the french version, Gabriel from the Ystari.com staff, just answered me that the version will be avalaible in the end of november.

[werothegreat]

Jeebus, how long can it seriously take to translate 13 words and a little card text?

$2 Fabricant de chandeliers
$2+ Tailleur de pierre
$3+ Médecin, Chef-d'œuvre
$4 Conseiller, Place, Percepteur
$4+ Héraut
$5 Boulanger, Boucher, Compagnon, Guilde Marchande, Devineresse

See?  Not that hard.

[Mr Anderson]

How long did it take you to write this post?

Also, the German rules for Guilds are already online, and according to the translation we have to play kingdom cards and therefore also Masterpiece in the action phase 

[Awaclus]

How long did it take you to write this post?

Around 7 minutes for the translations, the translated names weren't there when he posted it so they were added during the 7 minutes between posting and editing.

[Emeric]

Jeebus, how long can it seriously take to translate 13 words and a little card text?

$2 Fabricant de chandeliers
$2+ Tailleur de pierre
$3+ Médecin, Chef-d'œuvre
$4 Conseiller, Place, Percepteur
$4+ Héraut
$5 Boulanger, Boucher, Compagnon, Guilde Marchande, Devineresse

See?  Not that hard.

and finally we have the cards in French since last Saturday.

And the cards names are :
$2 Cirier
$2+ Tailleur de pierre
$3+ Médecin, Chef-d'œuvre
$4 Conseiller, Place du village, Percepteur
$4+ Héraut
$5 Boulanger, Boucher, Compagnon, Guilde des Marchands, Devin

[werothegreat]

Jeebus, how long can it seriously take to translate 13 words and a little card text?

$2 Fabricant de chandeliers
$2+ Tailleur de pierre
$3+ Médecin, Chef-d'œuvre
$4 Conseiller, Place, Percepteur
$4+ Héraut
$5 Boulanger, Boucher, Compagnon, Guilde Marchande, Devineresse

See?  Not that hard.

and finally we have the cards in French since last Saturday.

And the cards names are :
$2 Cirier
$2+ Tailleur de pierre
$3+ Médecin, Chef-d'œuvre
$4 Conseiller, Place du village, Percepteur
$4+ Héraut
$5 Boulanger, Boucher, Compagnon, Guilde des Marchands, Devin

So I was mostly right.  I wonder why they went with Cirier - he's obviously making candleSTICKS and not candles.  Source?

[GendoIkari]

The Finnish edition has been delayed until November.

I guess they couldn't finnish it in time.

Better trans-late than never.

As long as they aren't rushin' the translations.

[Ozle]

The Finnish edition has been delayed until November.

I guess they couldn't finnish it in time.

Better trans-late than never.

I dunno, its all Greek to me!

[Witherweaver]

Weren't there some cases with overpowered foreign-language version of Magic cards?  Back towards the early years in the time of 3rd ed/Legends/Arabian Nights.

[Awaclus]

Weren't there some cases with overpowered foreign-language version of Magic cards?  Back towards the early years in the time of 3rd ed/Legends/Arabian Nights.

At least a Spanish Meloku the Clouded Mirror puts 2/2 tokens onto the battlefield instead of 1/1s.

[KingZog3]

I now begin to wonder about books translated into other languages.  Do the translators get "creative" for those as well?  Does the Dutch version of Harry Potter have an invincibility cloak instead of an invisibility cloak?  Is the French version of a Dan Brown book actually readable?  Is the Russian version of Twilight three times as long and contain two hundred pages of commentary on economic systems?

And going the other direction, is the original Italian version of Foucault's Pendulum actually as crazily messed-up as the English version was?  Because that was pretty trippy.

For what's it worth, Harry Potter is translated from British English into American English.

Does British English usually get translated into American English, or the other way around?

I think usually British English gets translated in to American English. Like Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy has things like "lorry" and "torch" changed to truck and flashlight. Personally I don't get it, because it then loses a certain feel that the original had, and it's not like it's not understandable either. It's still English!

[pedroluchini]

I now begin to wonder about books translated into other languages.  Do the translators get "creative" for those as well?  Does the Dutch version of Harry Potter have an invincibility cloak instead of an invisibility cloak?  Is the French version of a Dan Brown book actually readable?  Is the Russian version of Twilight three times as long and contain two hundred pages of commentary on economic systems?

And going the other direction, is the original Italian version of Foucault's Pendulum actually as crazily messed-up as the English version was?  Because that was pretty trippy.

The Brazilian version of Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets has a sentence missing in the Aragog chapter. It's a fairly important sentence, and a later chapter feels like it has a plot hole in it due to lack of context. (Aragog never tells Harry and Ron that the dead girl was found in the bathroom, so Harry's conclusion that the secret passage is in Moaning Myrtle's bathroom comes out of nowhere.) Y'know, besides the various untranslatable puns, tonal shifts, and myriad other things that get lost in translation.

Nowadays, I always read/watch/play things in their original language if I can. It really makes a huge difference.

[theory]

If you're interested in this subject, I can highly recommend Le Ton Beau de Marot by Douglas Hofstadter.

[SCSN]

And Nabokov's essay The Art of Translation

[qmech]

I think usually British English gets translated in to American English. Like Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy has things like "lorry" and "torch" changed to truck and flashlight. Personally I don't get it, because it then loses a certain feel that the original had, and it's not like it's not understandable either. It's still English!

It's more English. 

[Kirian]

If you're interested in this subject, I can highly recommend Le Ton Beau de Marot by Douglas Hofstadter.

Hofstadter, the Mark Danielewski of nonfiction.

[SirPeebles]

I now begin to wonder about books translated into other languages.  Do the translators get "creative" for those as well?  Does the Dutch version of Harry Potter have an invincibility cloak instead of an invisibility cloak?  Is the French version of a Dan Brown book actually readable?  Is the Russian version of Twilight three times as long and contain two hundred pages of commentary on economic systems?

And going the other direction, is the original Italian version of Foucault's Pendulum actually as crazily messed-up as the English version was?  Because that was pretty trippy.

For what's it worth, Harry Potter is translated from British English into American English.

Does British English usually get translated into American English, or the other way around?

I think usually British English gets translated in to American English. Like Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy has things like "lorry" and "torch" changed to truck and flashlight. Personally I don't get it, because it then loses a certain feel that the original had, and it's not like it's not understandable either. It's still English!

Lorry?  Americans have enough trouble with truck.

[Kirian]

That would have been so much better if it were five slides long... the joke wore really thin after that.

[Awaclus]

That would have been so much better if it were five slides long... the joke wore really thin after that.

Well, I was tired enough to not notice I was reading The Onion until the 7th slide.

[Burning Skull]

And Nabokov's essay The Art of Translation

Very interesting reading!

As an offtopic, I've read one of his books both in Russian and in English, and the latter was the most complicated English text I ever dealt with (hmm, barring some Edgar Allan Poe prose, probably).

[SCSN]

And Nabokov's essay The Art of Translation

Very interesting reading!

As an offtopic, I've read one of his books both in Russian and in English, and the latter was the most complicated English text I ever dealt with (hmm, barring some Edgar Allan Poe prose, probably).

Cool, which one? I've read every English word the man has written (save for some of his poems and plays) and he's my favorite writer by far. His linguistic precision is at times exhausting but always rewarding. It wouldn't surprise me if Ada alone doubled my English vocabulary.

I'm insanely jealous of your ability to read Russian. Learning that language is still one of my goals, but I never seem to be able to find the time. I'm particularly interested in reading Bely, Gogol and Pushkin in their native tongue. Are you familiar with their work?

[Burning Skull]

Cool, which one?

I was talking about his most famous book, Lolita.
My personal favorite of his works is Laughter in the Dark.
It's so strong emotionally and so dark and full of misanthropy you just want to lay down and die after reading it.

I'm particularly interested in reading Bely, Gogol and Pushkin in their native tongue. Are you familiar with their work?

           
Gogol is one of my favorite writers indeed!
And yes, it's really hard to image his books in some other language than Russian (some of them are with a lot of Ukrainian words in 'em actually).
I think he must be one of the most difficult Russian writers to translate to some other language (not talking about poets here).

When I run out of something new to read, I always take Gogol's "Evenings on a Farm Near Dikanka" and happily reread it.
It is considered by some as a book for children, but it's so awesome on so many levels! Think I've read it like five times or so haha

[Awaclus]

My personal favorite of his works is Laughter in the Dark.
It's so strong emotionally and so dark and full of misanthropy you just want to lay down and die after reading it.

I've got to check that out later. I just happened to read Lolita last week and it while I did enjoy it a lot, it was quite challenging on many levels — I had trouble understanding the language, then I had trouble getting the references (and probably missed most of them too), and then I had trouble dealing with the emotional impact. Definitely want to read more of Nabokov's books, but not right now.

[ipofanes]

My only encounter with Nabokov was reading Pnin in a German translation, and I stopped halfway through because the book didn't grip me at all.

A question to the boardgamers among you: Is The Luzhin Defense worth a read?

[SCSN]

Absolutely, and I can fully understand not liking Pnin��—I did not like it myself after a first read, and only began to appreciate it (though it's still far from my favorite) upon returning to it after reading most of his other works.

To people new to Nabokov I generally recommend Laughter in the Dark first, as it's one of his easiest books in terms of vocabulary and there's something about it that makes it a really smooth read, and The Defense second.

Unless your English is really poor I'd take the English translations over the German ones. Not because the latter are necessarily bad (I have no clue), but because Nabokov was personally involved with the English translations of all his Russian works: he made copious corrections to and rewrites of early drafts so that every word appearing in print bears his stamp of approval.

My personal favorite of his works is Laughter in the Dark.
It's so strong emotionally and so dark and full of misanthropy you just want to lay down and die after reading it.

I've got to check that out later. I just happened to read Lolita last week and it while I did enjoy it a lot, it was quite challenging on many levels — I had trouble understanding the language, then I had trouble getting the references (and probably missed most of them too), and then I had trouble dealing with the emotional impact. Definitely want to read more of Nabokov's books, but not right now.

If you ever feel like rereading Lolita, I can recommend "The Annotated Lolita" by Alfred Appel, it's just the book with a whole bunch of notes at the end explaining various references, and the Foreword is nice too.

I'm particularly interested in reading Bely, Gogol and Pushkin in their native tongue. Are you familiar with their work?

           
Gogol is one of my favorite writers indeed!
And yes, it's really hard to image his books in some other language than Russian (some of them are with a lot of Ukrainian words in 'em actually).
I think he must be one of the most difficult Russian writers to translate to some other language (not talking about poets here).

Yeah, I have Bely's "Gogol's Artistry" in English translation and it really stresses how much I'm missing. It's a study of Gogol's style and most of what he discusses pertains to particular patterns in Gogol's use of the Russian language, a significant part of which loses its meaning in translation. I still love it, but expect to love it a whole lot more when I finally learn Russian.

Nabokov has written a little book on Gogol too, and that's in fact how I first heard about him. I especially love his discussion of the short story The Overcoat.