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[sudgy]

I am totally okay with a sudgy lynch, but I don't prefer it. The ATE is a bit scummy, but I'mgetting more townie vibes from him than scummy.

"I have a town read on sudgy, so I would be fine with lynching him."

?!?  (not so that Robz won't get mad at me  )

This is making me want to vote mail-mi more.

PPE: Ash, why the change of heart?  You've gotten mad at people before for it, now you're saying it's fine.

[ashersky]

I am totally okay with a sudgy lynch, but I don't prefer it. The ATE is a bit scummy, but I'mgetting more townie vibes from him than scummy.

"I have a town read on sudgy, so I would be fine with lynching him."

?!?  (not so that Robz won't get mad at me  )

This is making me want to vote mail-mi more.

PPE: Ash, why the change of heart?  You've gotten mad at people before for it, now you're saying it's fine.

When did I actually get mad for it?  Voltaire's quote, which he remembered because it was about him, was me trying to get Voltaire lynched.

[sudgy]

I am totally okay with a sudgy lynch, but I don't prefer it. The ATE is a bit scummy, but I'mgetting more townie vibes from him than scummy.

"I have a town read on sudgy, so I would be fine with lynching him."

?!?  (not so that Robz won't get mad at me  )

This is making me want to vote mail-mi more.

PPE: Ash, why the change of heart?  You've gotten mad at people before for it, now you're saying it's fine.

When did I actually get mad for it?  Voltaire's quote, which he remembered because it was about him, was me trying to get Voltaire lynched.

That's what I was talking about.

[yuma]

voltaire: ash doing this doesn't change much for me. I think that scum derphammer (or in this case vote to L-1 w/o intent) just as much, if not less than town does. It can be something to add to a case, but right now I don't see a very good case on ash, so it isn't anything worth voting over.

NK: contradictions between games aren't scummy. See my argument about this with TA in LoR2. People change how they view things

And PS the derphammer is a fine and useful tool... for town and scum. I have had my fair share on both sides of the coin. Derphammering SK-Galz... derphammering mcmc in Mean Girls, derphammering Grujah in Blitz1... that sort of stuff is pretty meaningless w/o content.

[mail-mi]

I am totally okay with a sudgy lynch, but I don't prefer it. The ATE is a bit scummy, but I'mgetting more townie vibes from him than scummy.

"I have a town read on sudgy, so I would be fine with lynching him."

?!?  (not so that Robz won't get mad at me  )

This is making me want to vote mail-mi more.

PPE: Ash, why the change of heart?  You've gotten mad at people before for it, now you're saying it's fine.

That's not what I said. Your ATE is scummy, but I'm getting more townie vibes from you. So I'm okay with it, but don't particularly want it.

[sudgy]

I am totally okay with a sudgy lynch, but I don't prefer it. The ATE is a bit scummy, but I'mgetting more townie vibes from him than scummy.

"I have a town read on sudgy, so I would be fine with lynching him."

?!?  (not so that Robz won't get mad at me  )

This is making me want to vote mail-mi more.

PPE: Ash, why the change of heart?  You've gotten mad at people before for it, now you're saying it's fine.

That's not what I said. Your ATE is scummy, but I'm getting more townie vibes from you. So I'm okay with it, but don't particularly want it.

Saying that you are "totally okay with it" doesn't sound like you don't particularly want it.

[Voltaire]

I was tunneling you hardcore and pointed out something that wasn't really scummy to make you seem scummier.  Wasn't I scum then, too?

If you thought you were scum in that game it would explain so much! Like I said in the post you just quoted, you were town.

[yuma]

I was tunneling you hardcore and pointed out something that wasn't really scummy to make you seem scummier.  Wasn't I scum then, too?

If you thought you were scum in that game it would explain so much! Like I said in the post you just quoted, you were town.

You do have to admit that wasn't ash's finest moment as town though... I mean he wasn't exactly on the correct page there was he? Not even close come to think of it. So using something that he said incorrectly as town to show that he is scum in this game doesn't really work.

Like I said, cross game contradictions don't tend to hold water. People do change their ideas about how the game plays out. Sometimes for the worse, sometimes for the better.

[Voltaire]

So what conclusion should I draw? That ash doesn't play to his wincon as town? I get that people change their opinions, but ash defending his actions by reading what he did and thinking it was him as scum is just...just...it leaves me speechless. How does anyone else not see this.

[yuma]

So what conclusion should I draw? That ash doesn't play to his wincon as town? I get that people change their opinions, but ash defending his actions by reading what he did and thinking it was him as scum is just...just...it leaves me speechless. How does anyone else not see this.

I am saying you have a point... but I think in the grand scheme of things it is a very, very minor one. One that I would tack onto the end of a case. But as I see the "larger" case on ash invalid (at least at this stage of the game), this tiny little point isn't doing it for me as it has a very ambiguous meaning when it comes to actually trying to figure out alignment.

[ashersky]

So what conclusion should I draw? That ash doesn't play to his wincon as town? I get that people change their opinions, but ash defending his actions by reading what he did and thinking it was him as scum is just...just...it leaves me speechless. How does anyone else not see this.

It means pushing the "L1 vote without a claim is scummy" move is a scummy move.  Which is what you are doing now.  Which is why you are scummy and I'm voting you.

See?

[yuma]

Well I take it we are doing a Friday softdeadline as Thursday's has past....


Mods: Can we get a prod on eevee? He hasn't posted in 48+ hours. And a prod on Xerxes. He hasn't posted in 24+

Their total combined posts is 22... (counting pre-game).

[sudgy]

I just reread chairs, and he hasn't had too much other than some theory discussion and voting me.  And he still hasn't said why, after I explained myself.  He's been pretty lurky, and is avoiding certain things.  I would say this is enough to lynch D1, especially this one.

[theorel]

Okay, I'm sorry I posted in the rules thread.  I haven't caught up here, but I want to address my rules post somewhere, and I guess this is the only place to do it.  I will clarify as many times as necessary that I don't want ashersky banned from fds games.  But I have more to say.

[yuma]

Okay, I'm sorry I posted in the rules thread.  I haven't caught up here, but I want to address my rules post somewhere, and I guess this is the only place to do it.  I will clarify as many times as necessary that I don't want ashersky banned from fds games.  But I have more to say.

If it specifically pertains to this game and finding someone to lynch post it. if it doesn't please save it until after the game would be my suggestion... we don't need to be derailed again...

[yuma]

Well I take it we are doing a Friday softdeadline as Thursday's has past....


Mods: Can we get a prod on eevee? He hasn't posted in 48+ hours. And a prod on Xerxes. He hasn't posted in 24+

Their total combined posts is 22... (counting pre-game).

Eevee... you are here... you are looking at the "edge cases" thread... If you leave and don't post in this thread I will vote for you....

[theorel]

Sorry, I think this needs to be said regardless...it's not long, and I don't want anyone to respond to it. 
Even if the rules were changed according to my proposal AND ashersky had actually broken rules in this game I would still fight against him being banned.  The WHOLE point was how to handle issues in the FUTURE not currently.  I'm sorry it came across as a personal attack.

@ashersky: your post pointed out that there is a possible discrepancy in how these games are approached (I don't even know if there is one, but there might be one).  A discrepancy as large as "what constitutes cheating" is kind of a big deal.  I think it should be clear what's "cheating" and what isn't.  I don't think anyone has cheated, nor has anyone threatened to do so.  I don't know if it's even possible to cheat in the current system because Rules Violations are penalized in game.  Anyways, I hope you'll understand that I do NOT thing you're a cheater on any level...you like to push boundaries, you think outside the box.  Those are good things, they help you win games.  That's fine by me.

When I argued with you in the masons and monks pre-game thread, I decided never to play another game with you.  I changed my mind by the end of MXIX.  I honestly and totally don't feel that way any more at all.  There are aspects of your play that frustrate me, true.  But I actually overall enjoy playing with you.  Really truly sorry you thought I wanted you banned.  I hope you accept my apology.  If you don't want to play with me anymore, I totally understand, and I'll respect your wishes.

[theorel]

Please let's not discuss what actually is cheating and how I'm wrong about there not being any cheating.  The whole point is that there's ambiguity, I think should be cleared up so that there is no more ambiguity.  That can be handled outside the game, that's why I posted it in the rules thread...unfortunately, it touches too close to this game to actually be discussed apparently.

Sorry to everyone for bringing it up there.

[Eevee]

Sorry guys, not sure if I've ever had more pages to catch up.

I understand why people are frustrated by Ash's play, and I appreciate the fact he could be scum.. but occam's razor and stuff, no way he is the most likely to be scum given his claim. Also, in the scenario where he is town, we want him to use his ability. So, after Galzria ash is the lynch I like the least.

Other than ash, I for once find multiple people scummy. sudgy' "grand reveal" of how to catch him was really a whole bunch of nothing, generally I find profound statements like that very towny.. that just didn't feel very profound. Again, like he is saying things just to get the town cred.

Robz seems to have a bias, thinking Voltaire is scummy in every game. I disagree with his "I just voted for sudgy to bait because he is so town", you just can't know that sudgy is town, so drawing any conclusions from that is silly. Also, sudgy just is scummy, I don't think joining a reasonable wagon in a situation where we need a lynch is punishable.

I find Xerxes scummy for his contributions. It's not like I see him as much more likely to be mafia than anyone else, so I guess giving him a pass for day 1 is fine. Yuma suggesting that somehow felt off to me, probably because he said he has a town read on xerxes in the same post, and that's a position I don't agree with. yuma has been less of a presence, but with the baby that's hardly a surprise.

chairs's style is somehow very unmemorable for me, I never seem to have any reads on him (sorry dude!). mail-mi I'm also very very null on, which is scummy in itself. theorel has been less of a presence after dominating the discussion a bit at first, which I also find suspect.

I'm not hammering sudgy right now, but if it was deadline time,I sure would.

[sudgy]

Eevee, I one time remember you saying that when I stick out I'm town and when I blend in I'm scum.  Do you still believe that?

[Eevee]

Eevee, I one time remember you saying that when I stick out I'm town and when I blend in I'm scum.  Do you still believe that?

I generally believe that of everyone. However, as the main lynch candidate, it's not in your control if you stick out or not here. I was there to build the initial wagon on you and the reasons for it actually were quite well in like with "trying to blend in".

[ashersky]

We're okay.  Explanation understood.  Let's play this game!

[ashersky]

I was tunneling you hardcore and pointed out something that wasn't really scummy to make you seem scummier.  Wasn't I scum then, too?

If you thought you were scum in that game it would explain so much! Like I said in the post you just quoted, you were town.

Pushing a vote to L-1 with no announcement as scummy is, in itself, a scummy thing.  I agree with Yuma that CLUE is a terrible example of town!ash.  If you want to find a good version, HP is probably better.

My pressing of you, and our argument in general, was pretty terrible town play overall.  Pointing out what I did there "as town" as a counterpoint to how my post in this game "is scummy" isn't a great example, in my opinion.  Because when I was pushing you in CLUE, I was way wrong.

[ashersky]

Well I take it we are doing a Friday softdeadline as Thursday's has past....


Mods: Can we get a prod on eevee? He hasn't posted in 48+ hours. And a prod on Xerxes. He hasn't posted in 24+

Their total combined posts is 22... (counting pre-game).

Deadline with no lynch is bad.

[ashersky]

I just reread chairs, and he hasn't had too much other than some theory discussion and voting me.  And he still hasn't said why, after I explained myself.  He's been pretty lurky, and is avoiding certain things.  I would say this is enough to lynch D1, especially this one.

Nothing sticks out, I guess.  But is he viable at this late stage?  Is anyone but sudgy?

This isn't the worst D1 case, though.