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[Galzria]

Assume our setup is:

M-DD-xxxx, as you're claiming it is.

Now assume scum rolled 3T/4T.

Scum know, after your claim (gee, thanks), that there's only one possible unaccounted for 'x' (M-DD-TTT-x).

Mafia can now safely claim Mason. Why not? By doing so, they're suggesting a setup of MMM-DD-xx. Since a SK in that setup only requires a single T (MMM-DD-T-x), if one exists he wouldn't be particularly suspicious as there's still one unclaimed letter.

Now, because there are multiple Doctors in the setup, scum can play around with when and whom to kill. Based on any additional claims they can determine if they're really 3T or 4T (and thus if there's a SK). Further, they don't even draw THAT much suspicion by not dying right away because there's at LEAST two other targets they could choose to shoot first. Add in any other claims, and they possibly have 3/4 other people to shoot.

And lastly they can argue that scum is choosing not to kill them to frame them.

So "Masons", should not claim at this point. I haven't even considered if you're lying scum who wants his scum buddies to claim Mason yet.

Regardless, no claims. They DON'T narrow the lynch pool and they DO give scum more information.

[Twistedarcher]

No I agree with Ash. That's 2 doctors and 3 ICs, if Masons claim.

No way scum counterclaim Masons D1. That's 3 ICs.

That's a lot of PoE, and with 1 doc + a 1-shot, that's a tough situation for mafia. They have no choice to shoot the ICs, and hope they outguess town.

Lots of ICs + lots of ways to protect ICs is great. It would also mean we likely don't have any cops. PoE and keeping ICs alive would be the best course of measure.

[Twistedarcher]

Granted, my analysis isn't based on an in-depth look at the setup. Doing that now.

[Twistedarcher]

Okay, I get what you're saying Galz, but your analysis assumes that there aren't masons. If there ARE masons, they know it's invalid, and your analysis is moot.

Saying what masons shouldn't do based off of analysis that assumes no masons doesn't make sense.

[Galzria]

Okay, I get what you're saying Galz, but your analysis assumes that there aren't masons. If there ARE masons, they know it's invalid, and your analysis is moot.

Saying what masons shouldn't do based off of analysis that assumes no masons doesn't make sense.

That's wrong. Decisions need to be made based on what we can verify as true. "Masons" claiming don't put me ortownany closer to knowing if they are actually Masons or scum fake claiming. But it does let scum know who the Masons are.

[sudgy]

And I am going to policy vote anybody who votes me for being like I usually am.

Pre-emptive OMGUS? Interesting...

I am fine with people voting me for actual reasons, and will accept those votes.  But stupid reasons need to be punished.

Who would you characterize as having actual reasons for voting you as opposed to stupid reasons for voting you?

Chairs is the main one I think of that has a stupid reason for voting, others I would have to look back at.

[yuma]

And I am going to policy vote anybody who votes me for being like I usually am.

Pre-emptive OMGUS? Interesting...

I am fine with people voting me for actual reasons, and will accept those votes.  But stupid reasons need to be punished.

Who would you characterize as having actual reasons for voting you as opposed to stupid reasons for voting you?

Chairs is the main one I think of that has a stupid reason for voting, others I would have to look back at.

then you aren't getting lynched for stupid reasons... are you...? one vote does not a lynch make. So is your frustration more that you are getting lynched because you are mafia than it is that you are getting lynched for stupid reasons? Obviously I don't expect you to answer this last question, but this is what I am wondering after your rather dramatic (although dramatic isn't the right word... I can't think of the one I am looking for... it is late) reactions to being voted.

[sudgy]

And I am going to policy vote anybody who votes me for being like I usually am.

Pre-emptive OMGUS? Interesting...

I am fine with people voting me for actual reasons, and will accept those votes.  But stupid reasons need to be punished.

Who would you characterize as having actual reasons for voting you as opposed to stupid reasons for voting you?

Chairs is the main one I think of that has a stupid reason for voting, others I would have to look back at.

then you aren't getting lynched for stupid reasons... are you...? one vote does not a lynch make. So is your frustration more that you are getting lynched because you are mafia than it is that you are getting lynched for stupid reasons? Obviously I don't expect you to answer this last question, but this is what I am wondering after your rather dramatic (although dramatic isn't the right word... I can't think of the one I am looking for... it is late) reactions to being voted.

I'm sure others have, but I would need to look at them.

[sudgy]

Okay, wow, I just looked at everybody's votes they had on me, and they either had no explanation, or was before I explained my votes.  All people voting me, can you please say why you are?

[ashersky]

Assume our setup is:

M-DD-xxxx, as you're claiming it is.

Now assume scum rolled 3T/4T.

Scum know, after your claim (gee, thanks), that there's only one possible unaccounted for 'x' (M-DD-TTT-x).

Mafia can now safely claim Mason. Why not? By doing so, they're suggesting a setup of MMM-DD-xx. Since a SK in that setup only requires a single T (MMM-DD-T-x), if one exists he wouldn't be particularly suspicious as there's still one unclaimed letter.

Now, because there are multiple Doctors in the setup, scum can play around with when and whom to kill. Based on any additional claims they can determine if they're really 3T or 4T (and thus if there's a SK). Further, they don't even draw THAT much suspicion by not dying right away because there's at LEAST two other targets they could choose to shoot first. Add in any other claims, and they possibly have 3/4 other people to shoot.

And lastly they can argue that scum is choosing not to kill them to frame them.

So "Masons", should not claim at this point. I haven't even considered if you're lying scum who wants his scum buddies to claim Mason yet.

Regardless, no claims. They DON'T narrow the lynch pool and they DO give scum more information.

You know I took into account the chance that scum fake claimed masons, right?  That was even my hope.  Pretty easy to confirm by D3 if the masons were lying, and then we have TWO scum caught in fake claims.  If 3 ICs live through 3 nights, pretty good chance they aren't ICs.

That was my point.  I mean, my POE lynch pool narrowing thing was also valid, but was in fact secondary to baiting scum to fake claim, or at least consider it.

[Galzria]

Except you obviously didn't take it into account because scum don't easily get caught at all. D3, or any other day.

[ashersky]

Except you obviously didn't take it into account because scum don't easily get caught at all. D3, or any other day.

Right, we never catch scum ever.  If fact, we didn't catch any scum at all with a crazy out of nowhere PR claim from town on D1 in Harry Potter, did we?  Town never wins because they never catch scum, so I don't even know why we try.

If you weren't the IC, you would be in terrible shape right now.

[Galzria]

Except you obviously didn't take it into account because scum don't easily get caught at all. D3, or any other day.

Right, we never catch scum ever.  If fact, we didn't catch any scum at all with a crazy out of nowhere PR claim from town on D1 in Harry Potter, did we?  Town never wins because they never catch scum, so I don't even know why we try.

If you weren't the IC, you would be in terrible shape right now.

Hardly. I'm not the one suggesting unsupported and terrible ideas that are verifiably anti-town.

[ashersky]

Except you obviously didn't take it into account because scum don't easily get caught at all. D3, or any other day.

Right, we never catch scum ever.  If fact, we didn't catch any scum at all with a crazy out of nowhere PR claim from town on D1 in Harry Potter, did we?  Town never wins because they never catch scum, so I don't even know why we try.

If you weren't the IC, you would be in terrible shape right now.

Hardly. I'm not the one suggesting unsupported and terrible ideas that are verifiably anti-town.

Then lynch me.  You are adding zero to this game.  All you are doing is shitting on people who are actually generating content and trying to find ways to catch the bad guys.  Literally all of your "content" posts are just rebuttals of me or others on theory.

You want to be in charge because you are mod-confirmed town?  Then lead.  Bullying doesn't help anyone, whether you think it is pro-town or not.

[Galzria]

Except you obviously didn't take it into account because scum don't easily get caught at all. D3, or any other day.

Right, we never catch scum ever.  If fact, we didn't catch any scum at all with a crazy out of nowhere PR claim from town on D1 in Harry Potter, did we?  Town never wins because they never catch scum, so I don't even know why we try.

If you weren't the IC, you would be in terrible shape right now.

Hardly. I'm not the one suggesting unsupported and terrible ideas that are verifiably anti-town.

Then lynch me.  You are adding zero to this game.  All you are doing is shitting on people who are actually generating content and trying to find ways to catch the bad guys.  Literally all of your "content" posts are just rebuttals of me or others on theory.

You want to be in charge because you are mod-confirmed town?  Then lead.  Bullying doesn't help anyone, whether you think it is pro-town or not.

Will do. Happily.

vote: Ashersky

The case on him is simple: He's continuously pushed bad ideas without bothering to support them, and when called on them being bad and actually shown why, he throws a hissy fit. It's the same as when Ash /out'ed of every game he was signed up for because he wanted to play the "screw all you guys" card in his only current game (don't recall which one that was at the time). He was scum in that game, and people dropped the case against him because he threatened to leave the community.

When he's town, he screams just as loudly, but he actually backs his points up. When he's scum, he doesn't bother. He just tries to scream loudest and use whatever he can to get people not to lynch him.

Here I absolutely wouldn't put it past scum!Ash to try and draw out all of our PR's by claiming OSD. It's not that big a stretch, as I've already laid out. Further, he hasn't bothered to actually think things through, and when called on it... Well, if he's town, he's only brought this on himself. "Then lynch me" is as good as a self vote in my book.

If he is what he claims, then we learn that there's a full Doctor in the setup, know for a fact that we're MDD, and we don't out any other PR's for scum to kill tonight. Win, Win, and win.

[sudgy]

So, what does everybody else think of Robz?  He hasn't been doing much, and needs to.

PPE: Galz, even if we think ash is scum, I think it's a bad idea to lynch him.  If he is what he claims, we've lost our doc.  After he claims to use his doc, we can lynch him.  We could even set a limit to when he can use it.  And if he's scum, we'll lynch him later.

[ashersky]

vote: ashersky

Have fun.  I'm not.

[ashersky]

So, what does everybody else think of Robz?  He hasn't been doing much, and needs to.

PPE: Galz, even if we think ash is scum, I think it's a bad idea to lynch him.  If he is what he claims, we've lost our doc.  After he claims to use his doc, we can lynch him.  We could even set a limit to when he can use it.  And if he's scum, we'll lynch him later.

Robz is scum, Galz is his partner.

Oh wait, Galz is IC.  Just sounds that way.

[ashersky]

Also, not only am I not having fun, I will do everything I can from now until I'm lynched to help scum win.  Because screw this, and it isn't against any rules, nor it is a personal attack, so it isn't against the Civility Pledge.

Galz, word to the wise, treating other members of town in a terrible way doesn't help you.  If you were scum, I'd say go for it.  But as IC, it is the wrong tact to take.  Demeaning people as town does set you up for a good place for your next scum game, so I understand why you do it.  But you are hurting this game by doing it.

[Robz888]

Hey, jeez, settle down please.

Ashersky, I don't think Galz is demeaning you. He is allowed to call your ideas "terrible" and "verifiable anti-town." I'm inclined to actually agree with you on the Masons thing--well, at least that if they fake claimed, we would probably catch them--but I don't think Galz's position is unreasonable, and more to the point, he didn't demean you.

[Robz888]

Also, not only am I not having fun, I will do everything I can from now until I'm lynched to help scum win.  Because screw this, and it isn't against any rules, nor it is a personal attack, so it isn't against the Civility Pledge.

Okay, but even if Galz DID demean you--and he didn't--why do your teammates deserve to suffer for it?

[Robz888]

Ash, you're not thinking straight. Please take a step back, re-read what Galz said, and explain why you think he's wrong, without holding the entire town hostage.

[Galzria]

Also, not only am I not having fun, I will do everything I can from now until I'm lynched to help scum win.  Because screw this, and it isn't against any rules, nor it is a personal attack, so it isn't against the Civility Pledge.

Galz, word to the wise, treating other members of town in a terrible way doesn't help you.  If you were scum, I'd say go for it.  But as IC, it is the wrong tact to take.  Demeaning people as town does set you up for a good place for your next scum game, so I understand why you do it.  But you are hurting this game by doing it.

I've presented reasonable arguments based on the known information. You've responded with smart ass responses, and I've called you on it. It's as simple as that. If you had actually bothered to rebut anything, or support your claims that thusfar remain baseless, this would be different. But you haven't. So, sorry, nope, don't feel bad.

[ashersky]

Gala, you need to learn that being town does not equal being right.  You can't see past your own brilliance sometimes.  And it will hurt us all.

[Galzria]

Gala, you need to learn that being town does not equal being right.  You can't see past your own brilliance sometimes.  And it will hurt us all.

Never said I was absolutely right. I have repeatedly challenged you to support your own stated beliefs that say that I'm wrong. Something you've yet to do.