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[Voltaire]

...another PR.

But shoot. This sucks hardcore. Both for us and him. I don't understand what 'force-claim' could entail, but he was still a Cop.

I assume it means he has to reveal his result in his first post tomorrow, or something.

[Eevee]

Are we allowed to analyze nkirbit's alignment based on this decision?

[Voltgloss]

Are we allowed to analyze nkirbit's alignment based on this decision?

You mean... the mods' decision to nightkill xeiron?  I don't see how their decision gives us anything on nkirbit's alignment.  xeiron broke the rules.  It sucks for us, but the rules need to be enforced. 

I'm confirmed Town, and I approve this mod ruling.

[nkirbit]

I don't see why you wouldn't be allowed to.  But keep in mind:

Xeiron was pressuring me by blatantly breaking the rules.  I didn't know that he would get modkilled.. I just wanted the unfair pressure to stop.  It is unfair for me to sit there and take arguments I can't possibly defend myself against without also breaking the rules. 

I don't think Xeiron deliberately broke the rules, but what he was doing was akin to flipping over a role card in Resistance (for those who know that game).  It isn't fair to any faction at all.  No resolution to this issue was going to be clean, but Xeiron knew the rules and should have been more careful.


I have one thing to say on the subject of the faction name that's been approved by Ash as fine for me to say:


We have had examples of players not reading that part of the role PM carefully.  When you get a role PM, the win condition is the last thing you look at, if you look at it at all, because you already know what it is!.  We had an example in Dr. Who about Yuma skimming that part of his PM, as he didn't know exactly what his win condition was in certain endgame states, and we found out he had made an incorrect assumption.

Skimming that part of the role PM is perfectly plausible because you already know what it's going to say.  I skimmed it, and picked up the information I thought was relevant... which is nothing new at all.  I didn't pick up the name of the town faction because it wasn't that important to me.

[nkirbit]

Are we allowed to analyze nkirbit's alignment based on this decision?

Also keep in mind:

Had my goal been simply to get Xeiron modkilled, I would have sent a message to Ash and Yuma, rather than identifying myself as the one who pointed out the violation.  My goal in posting Xeiron's quote was simply to get the mods to say that pressuring me in such a way was against the rules of the game.  I would have been perfectly happy with a cease and desist warning, as I stated previously.

The decision to have Xeiron modkilled was the mods, not mine.

[Voltgloss]

Are we allowed to analyze nkirbit's alignment based on this decision?

You mean... the mods' decision to nightkill xeiron?  I don't see how their decision gives us anything on nkirbit's alignment.  xeiron broke the rules.  It sucks for us, but the rules need to be enforced. 

I'm confirmed Town, and I approve this mod ruling.

Modkill xeiron, I mean.  I'm not accusing the mods of being scum.  Or Vigs.  Well.  Maybe Vigs. 

Meanwhile, Vote: Red Door.  They're the same bar.  Let's tie that "vote".

And finally:  my comprehensive analysis and thoughts will come either tonight or early tomorrow morning.  I think I mentioned that before, but in case I didn't, I'm doing so now.  I understand a modkill can take the wind out of a town's sails.  I think my analysis will help jumpstart things again, so now's the right time for me to do exactly that.

[Twistedarcher]

What the heck is a forced-claim cop? Wiki.mafiascum is down right now, so I can't figure it out, but man that sucks losing Xeiron like that.

[Dsell]

Glad we're getting Voltgloss' analysis soon.

I am not really sure that xeiron's modkill and flip really affects the wagon too much (if he had been scum it may have) but I still do not support it.

I really do not think that nkirbit was trying to get xeiron killed, I hope no one criticizes him for that.

[Voltgloss]

What the heck is a forced-claim cop? Wiki.mafiascum is down right now, so I can't figure it out, but man that sucks losing Xeiron like that.

I've never seen "forced-claim" anything on the wiki, so I think that's a yumersky original. 

[Twistedarcher]

What the heck is a forced-claim cop? Wiki.mafiascum is down right now, so I can't figure it out, but man that sucks losing Xeiron like that.

I've never seen "forced-claim" anything on the wiki, so I think that's a yumersky original.

Frustrating that we don't know someone's flip in a regular mafia game, but I guess it's irrelevant at this point.

[Eevee]

I wasn't implying it was nkirbit's fault at all! I was thinking if the mods would be likelier to take a harsh measure like that if the victim would be proven town or scum.

[Archetype]

What the heck is a forced-claim cop? Wiki.mafiascum is down right now, so I can't figure it out, but man that sucks losing Xeiron like that.

I've never seen "forced-claim" anything on the wiki, so I think that's a yumersky original.

Frustrating that we don't know someone's flip in a regular mafia game, but I guess it's irrelevant at this point.

My guess is that's its along the lines of what Voltaire said.

[Twistedarcher]

I wasn't implying it was nkirbit's fault at all! I was thinking if the mods would be likelier to take a harsh measure like that if the victim would be proven town or scum.

Completely the same, rules are rules.

[Voltgloss]

I wasn't implying it was nkirbit's fault at all! I was thinking if the mods would be likelier to take a harsh measure like that if the victim would be proven town or scum.

Completely the same, rules are rules.

I agree.

[nkirbit]

Vote: Galzria

I would still be happy to lynch Galz.  I don't believe his claim.

[Eevee]

I wasn't implying it was nkirbit's fault at all! I was thinking if the mods would be likelier to take a harsh measure like that if the victim would be proven town or scum.

Completely the same, rules are rules.

I don't think it's black and white. No violation would be punished with a modkill if there were no victims.

[Voltgloss]

I wasn't implying it was nkirbit's fault at all! I was thinking if the mods would be likelier to take a harsh measure like that if the victim would be proven town or scum.

Completely the same, rules are rules.

I don't think it's black and white. No violation would be punished with a modkill if there were no victims.

The victim of breaking the rules is the game.

[Archetype]

I wasn't implying it was nkirbit's fault at all! I was thinking if the mods would be likelier to take a harsh measure like that if the victim would be proven town or scum.

Completely the same, rules are rules.

I don't think it's black and white. No violation would be punished with a modkill if there were no victims.

The victim of breaking the rules is the game.

I'm personally wondering if ashersky would modkill xeiron if he were scum. I think not.

[Dsell]

I wasn't implying it was nkirbit's fault at all! I was thinking if the mods would be likelier to take a harsh measure like that if the victim would be proven town or scum.

Completely the same, rules are rules.

I don't think it's black and white. No violation would be punished with a modkill if there were no victims.

The victim of breaking the rules is the game.

I'm personally wondering if ashersky would modkill xeiron if he were scum. I think not.

Technically, he would not have been quoting his PM if that were the case. But I don't think speculation on this is remotely helpful.

[Archetype]

I wasn't implying it was nkirbit's fault at all! I was thinking if the mods would be likelier to take a harsh measure like that if the victim would be proven town or scum.

Completely the same, rules are rules.

I don't think it's black and white. No violation would be punished with a modkill if there were no victims.

The victim of breaking the rules is the game.

I'm personally wondering if ashersky would modkill xeiron if he were scum. I think not.

Technically, he would not have been quoting his PM if that were the case. But I don't think speculation on this is remotely helpful.

Well I don't know. I think it is.

For a hypothetical:

nkirbit asks ashersky if xeiron should be punished for quoting his role PM. ashersky doesn't punish him. nkirbit assums that either ashersky is a bad mod or xeiron is scum. Since ashersky rocks, he goes with the latter. He's not getting in trouble because he didn't quote his role pm because he's scum.

[Voltgloss]

I get what you're saying, but don't see how that's helpful in this case.  We know xeiron's alignment.

I don't think there's anything further to be gleaned from the unfortunate subject of xeiron's modkill.  I will do what I can tonight to move us past that.

[sudgy]

Regarding my vote for nkirbit:

I think we should look for an anti-town player to lynch, or a lurker.  It's hard to find the correct people with this many players.  Nkirbit said he doesn't care about winning, and that's definitely anti-town.

[nkirbit]

  Nkirbit said he doesn't care about winning, and that's definitely anti-town.

That is definitely not anti town.  You know who else wants to win?  Mafia!

Lynching anti-town is an excuse that's easy to hide behind, anyway.

[sudgy]

  Nkirbit said he doesn't care about winning, and that's definitely anti-town.

That is definitely not anti town.  You know who else wants to win?  Mafia!

Lynching anti-town is an excuse that's easy to hide behind, anyway.

You're original post was basically saying, "I don't care if town does something anti-town," saying you were okay with people claiming, meaning you were okay with town losing.

Also, I think lynching anti-town is the best lynch for today.  I don't care what you say.

[sudgy]

Also, I think lynching anti-town is the best lynch for today.  I don't care what you say.

Or more, what anybody says.