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Author Topic: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #2: Hinterlands  (Read 106617 times)

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LastFootnote

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #2: Hinterlands
« Reply #150 on: September 09, 2013, 06:32:33 pm »
+1

About Hinterland:

Without +1 Action, it's boring card. Even if buying a bunch of them and then using them to trade out for a Province hand were a good idea (unlikely), the fact is you'd be playing a boring, monolithic strategy. With +1 Action, you can afford to buy other interesting terminal Actions and Hinterland becomes a support card. In short, Hinterland seems like a supporting card to me, and it needs +1 Action to fill that role. With +1 Action, you aren't afraid to put Action cards on your mat, because you know you'll be able to take them off and play them (or at least one of them).

It should also do something when you don't want to swap so that it's not just a dead card in your hand when you don't swap. The author was thinking of adding an option to gain another Silver to your Hinterland mat, and I think that sounds great.

So I'm going to operate under the assumption that Hinterland actually looks like this:

Quote
Hinterland
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Action. Choose one: Gain a Silver, putting in on your Hinterland mat; or swap the cards in your hand with the cards on your Hinterland mat.

When you gain this, gain a Silver, putting it on your Hinterland mat.

This version seems potentially very interesting to me. You can buy a couple of them (or buy one and play it) and get two Silvers on your mat. At that point, swapping starts to be an interesting decision. Although you could just leave crap on your Hinterland mat, using like a pseudo-Chapel, that's probably not optimal. For one thing, eventually you'll have enough Silver built up that you're willing to take the crap back with it. For another, you can start using the mat for more interesting things, like storing terminals until you have a village to go with them.

Example: On one turn, you have a hand of [Silver, Copper, Copper, Hinterland, Smithy] and you have three Silvers on your mat. You might want to store your Torturer because before long you'll get a hand that contains a Village and a Hinterland, at which point you can play the Village, then play the Hinterland to swap the Smithy (and other cards) into your hand.

It's such an exotic card that I think I'll have to playtest it before deciding whether or not to vote for it. But I think it has a lot of potential.

Soon I'll type up something on my other favorite submission, Mill.
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Tables

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #2: Hinterlands
« Reply #151 on: September 09, 2013, 06:37:52 pm »
+1

Video!



Note: One of my cards is in there, and this was made before a few edits were added.
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...spin-offs are still better for all of the previously cited reasons.
But not strictly better, because the spinoff can have a different cost than the expansion.

Schneau

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #2: Hinterlands
« Reply #152 on: September 09, 2013, 06:52:02 pm »
0

Quote
Palanquin
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Action. You may discard an Action card. If you do, +1 Card per $ it costs.

Didn't even get past the first one yet, OMG this is so ridiculously unbalanced. You just buy this and only this. Play Palanquin, discard Palanquin, get +1 Action +5 Cards??? You will be drawing your whole deck with like 3 of these. It's not even terribroken, it's just broken.


I was going to say "Strictly better than Apprentice" but then I would have to qualify it with "when there are no Potion cards in the kingdom" and also be prepared for all those edge cases where you actually want to trash a card instead of discarding it (Rats, etc.). So I'll just almost say it, instead.

Edit: misread. I agree with Robz, though.


To defend Palanquin a bit here... I don't see how it is broken, maybe a little overpowered.  Play Palanquin, discard Palanquin is like trying to line up Treasure Maps, not to mention the opportunity cost of not buying other $5-costers.  It's not as easy to use (early-game anyways) as Stables, for example, since you don't start with any actions in your deck.  It's a strong card for sure, but I think with a small nerf it would be an interesting drawing card.

Totally disagree. This will be a must-buy, and strategically uninteresting. Just keep buying this, and other actions if you can't afford this, and you will be drawing your deck in no time at all. It's much easier to line up then TMap, because the card itself draws cards even when they don't connect (presuming you have other actions). And the thing with TMap is, extra copies make it more likely that you connect once, but then you get rid of the primaries and probably won't connect again. Here, you will keep connecting over and over again.

Sure, Palanquin is probably a little broken as-is, but I don't think as much as you make it out to be, as others have commented. Also, this is one card that could maybe be more balanced (and weaker) if it cost less instead of more. If this costed $3, it wouldn't be near as OP to stack your deck with them - you couldn't discard them to themselves for as good of an effect. If that's not enough, you could take away the +Action, but that might be overkill.

I'm not saying the card is good or even that I like the card, but I don't think it's more broken than a lot of the other submissions.
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AJD

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #2: Hinterlands
« Reply #153 on: September 09, 2013, 06:52:31 pm »
+1

Quote
Fence
Types: Action
Cost: $5
While this is in play, when you gainbuy a card, gain a card costing exactly $1 more than it.

I think mended Fence is almost strictly worse than Haggler? With mended Fence, you can buy an X and gain an X+1. With Haggler, you can afford to buy an X+1, and gain an X—or gain an X–1, or buy an X+2, or.... The only cases where Haggler's not strictly better are if X is a Victory card, and edge cases where it matters whether you're buying something or gaining it (e.g., X is Noble Brigand).

Fence might be more interesting with +1 Buy.

Quote
Construct
Types: Action
Cost: $3
Trash a card from your hand. Gain two cards each costing exactly $1 more than it.

When you gain this during your Action phase, +1 Card and +1 Action.

This is strictly better* than Develop.

(*I mean, not technically, but you know what I mean.)

Quote
Courier (B)
Types: Action
Cost: $2
+1 Action. +1 Buy.

When you discard this from play, if you bought no more than one card this turn, you may put this on top of your deck.

Walled Village, but for +Buy.  I wonder if it needs something more.  Simple but OK.

I think the something more that it needs is +1 Card, and to cost $3? (I mean, Walled Village and Treasury also have +1 Card.)
« Last Edit: September 09, 2013, 06:54:51 pm by AJD »
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Robz888

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #2: Hinterlands
« Reply #154 on: September 09, 2013, 06:56:55 pm »
+1

Quote
Palanquin
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Action. You may discard an Action card. If you do, +1 Card per $ it costs.

Didn't even get past the first one yet, OMG this is so ridiculously unbalanced. You just buy this and only this. Play Palanquin, discard Palanquin, get +1 Action +5 Cards??? You will be drawing your whole deck with like 3 of these. It's not even terribroken, it's just broken.


I was going to say "Strictly better than Apprentice" but then I would have to qualify it with "when there are no Potion cards in the kingdom" and also be prepared for all those edge cases where you actually want to trash a card instead of discarding it (Rats, etc.). So I'll just almost say it, instead.

Edit: misread. I agree with Robz, though.


To defend Palanquin a bit here... I don't see how it is broken, maybe a little overpowered.  Play Palanquin, discard Palanquin is like trying to line up Treasure Maps, not to mention the opportunity cost of not buying other $5-costers.  It's not as easy to use (early-game anyways) as Stables, for example, since you don't start with any actions in your deck.  It's a strong card for sure, but I think with a small nerf it would be an interesting drawing card.

Totally disagree. This will be a must-buy, and strategically uninteresting. Just keep buying this, and other actions if you can't afford this, and you will be drawing your deck in no time at all. It's much easier to line up then TMap, because the card itself draws cards even when they don't connect (presuming you have other actions). And the thing with TMap is, extra copies make it more likely that you connect once, but then you get rid of the primaries and probably won't connect again. Here, you will keep connecting over and over again.

Sure, Palanquin is probably a little broken as-is, but I don't think as much as you make it out to be, as others have commented. Also, this is one card that could maybe be more balanced (and weaker) if it cost less instead of more. If this costed $3, it wouldn't be near as OP to stack your deck with them - you couldn't discard them to themselves for as good of an effect. If that's not enough, you could take away the +Action, but that might be overkill.

I'm not saying the card is good or even that I like the card, but I don't think it's more broken than a lot of the other submissions.

I may have overstated how "broken" it is in terms of "warped." I still think it is quite "broken" in that you are really just going to want to buy this, this, and more of this, and it will be really strategically uninteresting.

Of course there ARE other $5 cards where you do want to generally buy as many as possible--your Governors and Hunting Parties and Minions--but I think all those are at least a little (or in Governor and Minion's case, a lot) more complicated than Palanquin.

I mean, this card is just an Apprentice where you don't eat through your deck. And you get to use each Palanquin as both a discarded-card-for-+5-cards, and as a card that activates that.

Actually, I think I have the answer for this guy. It can't discard other Palanquins. That probably fixes it, right?

You're welcome.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #2: Hinterlands
« Reply #155 on: September 09, 2013, 06:57:03 pm »
0

Quote
Stranger
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Card. +1 Action. +1 Buy. Each other player discards the top card of his deck. Copies of cards revealed this way cost $2 less this turn, but not less than $0.
Should be an attack. And too swingy, too, because you have to get cards that make you interested.

Quote
Courier (B)
Types: Action
Cost: $2
+1 Action. +1 Buy.

When you discard this from play, if you bought no more than one card this turn, you may put this on top of your deck.
So you keep this nearly-dead card in hand until you want to use your 2nd buy ? Is it a joke ?
Should belong to Seaside.

Why should Stranger be an attack?  It does not harm the other players at all.  It's like Tribute.

Courier fits fine in Hinterlands.  It helps you deal with a big deck, like Scheme.  It has an effect related to gaining other cards, but it's a different take on it.  Rather than doing something when you buy another card, it does something UNLESS you buy another card -- that is, it can top-deck itself unless you've used an extra Buy.  It's subtle, but it fits just fine.

Quote
Sultan
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+2 Cards. +1 Action. Discard a card.

When you gain this, look at the top 3 cards of your deck. Discard any number of them and put the rest back in any order.

Lab with a slight nerf, but an on-gain effect. It is probably fine, but doesn't excite me all that much. It would be a good buy most of the time, like Lab.
"Discard a card" is more than a slight nerf to Laboratory, whose only function is to increase your handsize.

It's a slight nerf because you can discard junk pretty often.  Usually discarding an Estate and keeping an Estate in hand amount to the same thing.
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Robz888

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #2: Hinterlands
« Reply #156 on: September 09, 2013, 06:58:15 pm »
0

Incidentally, I think I know who made Palanquin, based on the name. We shall see if I am right.  ;D
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eHalcyon

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #2: Hinterlands
« Reply #157 on: September 09, 2013, 07:01:07 pm »
+1

Quote
Pilgrimage
Types: Action
Cost: $3
+1 Action. +2 Buys.

While this is in play, when you gain a Victory card, Victory cards cost $1 less, but not less than $0.

This card confuses me. I understand the purpose of the "when you gain a victory card" clause, but it seems a clunky solution. Also, I think this card might be too good in multiples, or in combination with other cost reducers. The +1 action makes it easily playable, and the +2 buys is really good, especially at $3. Now that I think about it though, the card itself is fairly weak, and is almost useless except late in the game, when the low price won't matter to you as much. Overall, I think I like this card, but it will need some playtesting to see if it creates broken combos.

I think it does create a possibly broken combo with Highway (see my post), but it should be easy to fix by tweaking the vanilla bonuses.

You don't even need Highway.  Play four Pilgrimages.  You have 9 buys.  Buy an Estate, reducing Victory cards by $4.  Buy another Estate (for free this time).  Now Provinces are free.  Buy 7 of them.

Well, you still need $2 to start it off. :P

But I absolutely think it's fixable with simple tweaks, either making it terminal or limiting it to +1 Buy.

Incidentally, I think I know who made Palanquin, based on the name. We shall see if I am right.  ;D

I don't think the name gives any clue.  I posted Palanquin (along with several others) as a name suggestion in this thread. :P
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Robz888

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #2: Hinterlands
« Reply #158 on: September 09, 2013, 07:02:54 pm »
0

Ah, ok.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #2: Hinterlands
« Reply #159 on: September 09, 2013, 07:03:12 pm »
0

"It's so hard to find good palanquin bearers these days."
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Schneau

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #2: Hinterlands
« Reply #160 on: September 09, 2013, 07:06:42 pm »
+3

Quote
Hinterland
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Action. Choose one: Gain a Silver, putting in on your Hinterland mat; or swap the cards in your hand with the cards on your Hinterland mat.

When you gain this, gain a Silver, putting it on your Hinterland mat.

Those changes make it an entirely different card. In fact, the Silver gaining is probably now the most important part of the card. In its original form, it was probably worse than Scout, and even the +1 Action only gets it into the Scout territory. Sure, I'm all for voting for cards with interesting concepts, but this seems like too big of a change to assume to vote for, and would feel entirely different than the submitted card.
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Asper

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #2: Hinterlands
« Reply #161 on: September 09, 2013, 07:09:43 pm »
0

Quote
Palanquin
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Action. You may discard an Action card. If you do, +1 Card per $ it costs.

Sadly too much of a monolithic strategy. If you have it say "an action card other than Palanquin" i think it's too expensive.


Quote
Tribe
Types: Action
Cost: $3
+2 Actions. +$1. Look at the top 2 cards of your deck. Discard one and put the other anywhere in your deck.

When you buy this, you may discard a card. If you do, +1 Buy and +$2.

Classic on-buy-new-buy card. Too good with cost reducers, obviously. Would have to say "if you payed 3$ for this" or something along those lines.


Quote
Quagmire
Types: Victory
Cost: $3
Worth 1 VP.

When you gain this, trash 3 cards from a Supply pile.

Interesting idea, but i would have wished for something different on top.


Quote
Hinterland
Types: Action
Cost: $4
Swap the cards in your hand with the cards on your Hinterland mat.

When you gain this, gain a Silver, putting it on your Hinterland mat.

Interesting, but strange. And weak, i'm pretty sure. It resembles Native Village a bit, and if i'm not mistaken cards with Mats weren't allowed...?


Quote
Pilgrimage
Types: Action
Cost: $3
+1 Action. +2 Buys.

While this is in play, when you gain a Victory card, Victory cards cost $1 less, but not less than $0.

So this is essentially a worse, but nonterminal Bridge. It's okay for megaturns, i guess, and if you were planning to flood your deck with Victories.


Quote
Consulate
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+3 Cards. +1 Action. Discard 2 cards.

When you gain this, each other player gains a Copper, putting it into his hand.

Aha, the other Embassy :)
I kind of like it, though it's obvious where the inspiration came from.


Quote
Trade Agreement
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+3 Cards.

While this is in play, when you gain a Trade Agreement, gain a card costing up to $5.

So, this works like Border Village, just that you have to pay 1$ less for it and get a card worth 4$, instead of one worth 3$... I'm not sure whether this should be considered unbalanced or whether enough 5$s are terminal to make this seem about as bad. Hm... I think it's too good.


Quote
Mountain Dwellers
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Card. +1 Action. Reveal your hand. If you revealed 3 or more Treasure cards, +$1.

When you buy this, you may trash a Treasure card you have in play. Gain a Treasure card costing exactly $3 more than it.

Interesting. A Smithy on buy and a Cantrip/Peddler depending on your treasure-ratio. It seems to encourage big money a bit, but as it itself is an action i guess it's okay. The fact that the treasure can be in play makes it nice. I kinda like it.


Quote
Emerald Vein
Types: Action – Victory
Cost: $5
+1 Action. Reveal your hand. +$1 per Victory card revealed.

Worth 1 VP.

Self-synergy is a nice thing, but i feel this should be a Treasure. I also think i have seen a few cards with that idea before, and i'm still not perfectly convinced it works... Meh, i guess i should give it a chance and maybe playtest it.


Quote
Troglodyte Caves
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Card. +1 Action. Discard any number of cards. +1 Card per card discarded.

When you gain this, you may reveal a card from your hand costing less than this. Gain a copy of it.

Whoever came up with that name? :D
So, this is a better Celler, i see the thematic cave reference. Like stuff like that. It's also a bit like a worse Border Village effect on gain. Oh, and it's also a sifter, very Hinterlandish. So it fits nicely, i just don't know how this would play. Interesting.


Quote
Vendor
Types: Action
Cost: $1
+1 Action

When you buy this, +2 Buys.

Ah, reminds me of one of my cards. Buy this for an additional buy. Hmm... I think it can easily cost 0$ and will still be a tad too weak, though. After all, you give yourself junk for that buy - it could at least be less horrible than Ruined Village (as that is a Ruins i don't count if for "strictly better" consideration).


Quote
Artefact
Types: Action
Cost: $2
+1 Card. +1 Action. Choose a card from your hand. Trash it, discard it, or put it on top of your deck.

When you buy this, set it aside instead of gaining it. Discard it after you next shuffle your discard pile (or when the game ends).

Hmm... So if i buy this, i have to wait an additional reshuffle to claim it. I guess as a nonterminal, nonmandatory trasher, it is really too good for a regular 2$. A bit like Inn or Border Village, where price and on-play also don't match up - just the opposite way. Also, you want to gain this without buying it, which i think is pretty "hinterlandish".


Quote
Ring Leader
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $3
When you buy or play this, each player (including you) reveals the top 4 card of his deck, discards one that you choose, and puts the rest back in an order he chooses.

So this is to Spy what Noble Brigand is to Thief. Quite different than Spy, though. Hm... I think it's probably too weak.


Quote
River
Types: Victory
Cost: $3
Worth 2 VP.

When you gain this during your turn, all cards except Victory cards cost $2 less this turn, but not less than $0.

Funny, this is the counterpart to that other card that reduced costs when you gained it... I think i like the other a little bit better.


Quote
Factory
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $4
+1 Action. You may discard a card that is not a Victory card. If you do, gain a copy of it.

When you gain a card, you may reveal this from your hand and put it onto your deck. If you do, put the gained card into your hand.

A bit like Mint, just for Actions too, without discarding and nonterminal. I guess it's okay... The self-synergy is nice.


Quote
Sanctuary
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+2 Cards. Discard 2 cards.

When you gain this, set aside a card from your hand. Return that card to your deck at the end of the game.

An instant island, i see. I think the on-play is a bit too weak, though. Also it kind of resembles Inn, which is funny considering the card's name :)
I'm just kidding, i think it's okay. Doesn't introduce new things, but still nice.


Quote
Workers' Co-operative
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Buy. +$3.

While this is in play, when you buy a card, each other player may gain a card costing less than it.

I feel this is a bit too weak. Considering Mandarin offers +3$ with something that can be a strategic option and an on-gain that can work as one, too, this doesn't compare too good. it also kind of reminds me of one Prosperity card. Maybe for 4$?


Quote
Smelter
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Buy. +$1.

While this is in play, when you buy a card, gain a Silver, putting it on top of your deck.

Simple. No concerns. Maybe could even do as a 3$, considering it's not "strictly" better than Woodcutter. Ah, probably better not.


Quote
Witch Doctor
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+$1. Look through your deck; reveal and discard any number of Victory and Curse cards from it. Shuffle your deck.

When you gain this, put your deck into your discard pile.

Nice name. Interestingly, the on-gain counters the on-play. It's probably not worse than Navigator, but i'm not exactly sure how big your deck has to be for this to pay off more...


Quote
Diviner
Types: Action
Cost: $3
+2 Cards. +1 Buy.

While this is in play, when you buy a card, reveal the top 2 cards of your deck, discard any number, and put the rest back on top in any order.

Up to now i didn't notice any card where the on-gain felt tacked on, personally. Here i'm not absolutely sure, but as it draws and also gives a buy, i think it's okay. Not thrilling, but not bad.


Quote
Shoreline
Types: Victory
Cost: $6
Worth 4 VP.

When you gain this, +1 Buy.

Even another on-buy-buy? Has the same issues with cost reducers, i'm afraid, and the top is... standard.


Quote
Mill
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Action. Each other player draws a card. Gain a card costing up to $5.

When you gain this, each other player discards down to 3 cards in hand.

I think Donald said something about the horrors of on-gain discard attacks... I've come to acknowledge it's probably not the best idea...


Quote
Travelling Salesman
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $5
Discard any number of Treasure cards from your hand. +2 Cards per card discarded.

When another player gains a Victory card, you may discard this. If you do, gain a card costing less than the gained Victory card.

This definately has to be more complex ;)
I'm not so sure the halves synergize, actually.


Quote
Courier (A)
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $4
+1 Card. +1 Action. Discard any number of cards. Gain a card costing exactly $1 per card discarded.

When you would gain a card other than during your Buy phase, you may discard this from your hand. If you do, gain a card costing up to $2 more instead.

Too good, and also probably makes for a monolithic strategy. Play this, discard all, gain this. Repeat, then use it to gain Duchies. Repeat for third pile (preferably Labs or sifters).


Quote
Oicho-Kabu
Types: Action – Victory
Cost: $5
+1 Buy. +$2.

Worth 1 VP. While this is in play, when you buy a card, +$2 and discard the top card of your deck. If it's a Victory card, trash this.

What is this wickedness? A foreign game? Seriously though, i have no clue how this works out. If you buy two cards, it's +4$, if not, it's a Woodcutter. The danger of it trashing itself is not very nice to play with, i think.


Quote
Wayfarer
Types: Action
Cost: $2
+1 Card. +1 Action. +1 Buy.

When you buy this, you may trash a card from your hand. If you do, +$ equal to its cost in coins.

What's up with all this money and buy during the buy phase? I think the name needs something economic to fit. Other than that, probably balanced... I guess...


Quote
Sultan
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+2 Cards. +1 Action. Discard a card.

When you gain this, look at the top 3 cards of your deck. Discard any number of them and put the rest back in any order.

Another top-decker on gain... I don't even know what Sultan and Laboratory have in common. If it was Vezir, okay... Don't get me wrong, i guess it's fine, it's just not... the card i have been eagerly awaiting, you know... It's not the only one here that feels like that.


Quote
Safe House
Types: Victory – Reaction
Cost: $3
Worth 2 VP.

When you gain a card costing $0, you may discard this. If you do, gain a Gold.

Another Tunnel, just for junkers instead of discarding... What i don't like is that, regardless of my money, i can always just buy a Copper and discard this. Provided good trashing, this leads to a game where money doesn't matter until it's time to get the Provinces, i'm afraid...


Quote
Commander
Types: Victory
Cost: $5
Worth 2 VP

When you gain this, gain a Reinforcement card, putting it on top of your deck.
Setup: Add an extra Action Kingdom card pile costing $5 to the Supply. Cards from that pile are Reinforcement cards and cannot be bought.

Clarification: Unlike most Victory cards, there are always 10 copies of Commander in the Supply regardless of the number of players.

I know this, i'm pretty sure. Basically this is "when you buy a randomly chosen 5$, gain a little Duchy for free"... I think it feels less confusing with this approach, but i guess it doesn't become more interesting, either...


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Midnight Gathering
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Action. You may put your deck into your discard pile. Look through your discard pile. You may reveal an Action card from it; put it into your hand.

So like a Band of Misfits that can impersonate 5$+ cards but in order to do that, you have to own them... I wanted to say no to this, but i guess it's not so bad after all. :)


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Pasture
Types: Victory – Reaction
Cost: $4
Worth 2 VP.

When another player gains a Victory card, you may reveal and discard this along with any number of cards from your hand. If you do, +2 Cards per Pasture and +1 Card per other card discarded.

Meh. Another 2VP-Reaction... I guess it's okay, but again, it doesn't feel like something we have been missing up to now.


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Trailblazer
Types: Action
Cost: $4
Gain a card costing up to $4.

When you gain this, reveal the top 4 cards of your deck. Put any number of the revealed Victory cards and Curses into your hand. Put the other cards back in any order.

Hmm, a Workshop with a Scout effect. Balanced, i guess. Again, not thrilling, but it would be unfair to say anything's wrong with this entry. Other than it being not really needed, that is.


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Bargain
Types: Action
Cost: $4
You may trash a card from your hand. Gain a card costing exactly $1 more than it, a card costing exactly $2 more than it, and a card costing exactly $3 more than it. Discard down to 2 cards in hand.

When you gain this, each player (including you) may trash a card from his hand.

It's interesting, but i think it might be too weak. Then again, i've been wrong about things like this before.


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Clairvoyant
Types: Action
Cost: $3
+1 Action. Look at the top card of your deck. You may put it into your hand. Otherwise, +$1 and either discard it or put it back. Look through your discard pile and put a card from it or your hand at the bottom of your deck.

I don't really get what this does. Also i'd like to know whether the last part is still under the condition of not putting the card in your hand... If it is not, i think it's probably a bit too strong (compared to Chancellor or even Scheme), if it is, i guess it's okay.


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Fence
Types: Action
Cost: $5
While this is in play, when you gain a card, gain a card costing exactly $1 more than it.

Endless circle. All i have to say. I gain a Silver, and because of that, a Jack of all Trades, and because of that, a Duchy... and a Gold, and a Forge, and a Province, and a Platinum...
Make it on-buy and maybe give it a +1$ or even an additional +1 Buy, and it's probably allright.


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Shaman
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Action. Name a card. Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal an Action card with that name. Put it into your hand and discard the rest.

When you gain this, each other player discards any number of cards from his hand then draws a card per card discarded.

Hmm, so it allows playing a better card that you have every time you play it. Considering the on-gain is an advantage for other players, i think it's fine. I guess i kind of like it...


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Tinker's Wagon
Types: Action
Cost: $4
Gain a card costing up to $4.

When you gain this, move a card costing between $3 and $6 from the top of one Supply pile to the top of another.

Why would i want to do that? To force somebody to buy that Scout before getting his City...? I think it's a pretty unfair thing to do, and if it's intended to synergize with the top - it doesn't (unless you count the card can gain itself). I'm all for wacky things, don't get me wrong, this just is a bit too unfair. It causes a player who really wants that City to think whether he actually wants to buy that Scout - leaving the possibly last City for somebody else or maybe have it covered by another Scout again - or just not go for it anymore. For that matter, it's much worse than Embargo, where you still get what you want, just wih a penalty. Sorry.


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Thrift Shop
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+1 Action. +$2. If this is not the first time you played Thrift Shop this turn, you may gain a card from the Thrift Shop mat.

When you gain or play this, place a card costing up to $5 from the Supply onto the Thrift Shop mat.

Clarification: There is only one community Thrift Shop mat. Each player does not have his own.

I don't think its going to be better than Woodcutter often enough. Of course, in a perfectly greased engine you can play loads of these, but then again, somebody who has a perfectly greased engine even though some of it's parts are weak, terminal 6$ cards, doesn't really need any more support, does he?


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Grandee
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Buy. Gain a card costing up to $4.

When you gain this, gain a Gold; each other player gains a Silver.

Another gainer... I somehow feel some of the themes here appear a bit to often... Here, the halves don't synergize. It's also not that interesting.


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Construct
Types: Action
Cost: $3
Trash a card from your hand. Gain two cards each costing exactly $1 more than it.

When you gain this during your Action phase, +1 Card and +1 Action.

Hmm... It trashes less cards than Remake, but still gains two... When you trash a Copper with this, it's better than Remodel. When you trash an Estate with it, it's about as good... For cards costing more than 2$, it's not actually striclty worse. I kind of like the idea, even though it's another gainer. I'm just not convinced it's balanced, yet.


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Missionary
Types: Action
Cost: $4
Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal a Victory card. Gain an Action or Treasure card costing up to the Victory card's cost, putting it onto your deck. Discard the revealed cards.

When you buy this, reveal a card from your hand. If that card costs $6 or less, gain a copy of it.

Whenever i see a card with a religious motive, i think it has to be a trasher, because Bishop and Chapel (and somehow Altar) are. On the card: I think it's too weak. Reveal an Estate, and it basically junks yourself. Reveal a Duchy and this is a Workshop that doesn't give you a choice. So in order for this to somehow work, you need to either get many Provinces, Nobles, Harems and whatnot, or trash your starting Estates and at least get some of them. I think getting expensive Victory cards is usually the goal anyway, so what this card does is not helping you get there, but further rewarding you for being successful. I kind of like the on-gain, though.


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Chapterhouse
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Action. +$1. Draw until you have 6 cards in hand. Discard 2 cards.

When you buy this, each other player draws a card. When you gain this, each other player with at least 4 cards in hand discards a card.

Is this meant to be Charterhouse?
It somehow resembles Margrave on-buy, and i guess having many of this is a nice way to sift through your cards. I guess it could do with a few words less, though. For example, i'd combine on-buy and on-gain, and if only to save a dividing line.


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Barn
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Card. +1 Action. Discard a card. If you discarded a Victory or Curse card, gain a Treasure costing up to $4. Otherwise, +$1 and gain a Victory card costing up to $4. Put the gained card into your hand.

When you gain this, gain an Action card costing up to $4, putting it onto your deck.

So, if i discard a Victory or Curse card, this is a better Oasis. If i don't, this is a weaker Oasis, as long as you consider "gain an Estate" (which this card is usually going to be) a penalty. Ah, i just saw this makes the next Barn better than Oasis again... I'm still not convinced it needs to cost 5$. it's probably fine without the on gain-which feels a bit tacked on, anyhow. As a sifter (and gainer), i think it's hinterlandish enough.


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Huntsmen
Type: Action
Cost: $0*
+1 Action. +1 Buy.

When you gain this, +2 Buys. During your Buy phase, this costs $2 more for each card you've gained this turn.

Ah, a on-gain-buy that does not ignore the problems of cost-reducers. I think it's still a bit problematic with cost reducers, especially Highway and Princess which are not event-triggered like Bridge, but condition-triggered. So even if i play princess and then gain a Huntsmen, she's still in play. I guess rules could just adress those things directly and say the order of play matters, but it's definately a drawback... I still think it's the best try to solve the on-buy-buy concept here.


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Painful Journey
Types: Action – Curse – Reaction
Cost: $4
Discard any number of Curses. +2 Cards for each Curse discarded.

Worth –1 VP. When you would buy a Victory card, you may trash this from your hand. If you do, gain a Victory card costin less than the bought card and gain 2 Curses.

Clarification: You cannot gain this card when another card instructs you to gain a Curse.

First of all, can a Painful Journey make you gain a Painful Journey? It's "another card", just not "a differently named card". Also, the clarification would have to be on the card, because unlike "there is one Chromosome Mat for each player" it's not something you could know from having the actual card and material in hand. Also, it's weak, like almost all curse-supporting cards i have seen yet. Even when constantly junked with Curses, i wouldn't want to buy this. Sorry.


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Wagon Raider
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $4
Each other player may put a card costing more than $2 from their hand into your discard pile. If he doesn't, he gains a Curse.

While this is in play, when you buy a Gold, you may gain a Province.

First i thought they just discarded it and wondered whether the wording was to not trigger Tunnel... Then i saw it actually steals cards... I guess the top part would arguably be okay, because after all it's weaker than Sea Hag, which is a (very powerful) 4$. The bottom part is absurd, though. Going from 6$ to 8$ is immensely much to do, and just giving that to you just for having a 4$ in play... Then again, if it gave +2$, you could buy it yourself, but then it would have to be a 5$... Considering this card not only curses opponents (or steals their cards), but also is even better than +2$ on several occasions, i'd make it a 5$ at least.


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Nomadic Village
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $4
+1 Card. +2 Actions.

When you gain this, put it into your hand.
When an opponent gains an Action card, you may discard this. If you do, search your discard pile for an Action card and put it into your hand.

I think the reaction alone would have done it. It wouldn't be hinterlandish, but a better card. Like this it has two dividing lines and feels like... Too much. The on-gain feels too much like it will be useless most of the time.


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Stranger
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Card. +1 Action. +1 Buy. Each other player discards the top card of his deck. Copies of cards revealed this way cost $2 less this turn, but not less than $0.

Scales very much with increasing number of players. A very interesting concept, but i really don't like that it's swingy and the mentioned scaling. I guess it can be changed in a way that preserves the spirit and works, though. Maybe make the player to your left reveal 2, like with Tribute?


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Courier (B)
Types: Action
Cost: $2
+1 Action. +1 Buy.

When you discard this from play, if you bought no more than one card this turn, you may put this on top of your deck.

I think this would work nicely as a cantrip for 3$. A lot like walled Village, but nice. Just not very hinterlandish, i'm afraid.


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Sawmill
Types: Action
Cost: $3
+1 Action. +1 Buy.

When you gain this, set it aside onto your Sawmill mat. At the start of each of your turns, you may put any number of cards from your mat into your hand.

Another one with a mat... I was so sure they weren't allowed for this contest... Ah well...
This is yet another on-buy-buy, just so that you can keep it for later turns. Hm... I think the fact that you have to spend 3$ on it makes it a bit too weak, though. For 1$ or maybe 2$, i'd definately buy it sometimes. welp, probably even 3$ will be okay sometimes... I'd still rather price it at 2$, though.


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Pyramid
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Action. +$1. +1 Card per Pyramid you have in play. Discard one card per Pyramid you have in play.

When you buy this, gain an extra copy of it.

Okay, a Copper that lets you sift if you have more of them... The first is basically an Oasis... Ah, now i see the theme :)
Fancy that. Yeah, i think i really like it.


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Lucky Coin
Type: Treasure
Cost: $4
Worth $1.

When you gain this, each other player with at least 5 cards in hand reveals his hand and discards a card that you choose.

Argh, Pillage meats Ill-Gotten-Gains... Another one of Donalds-rejected on-gain discard-attacks, only worse than the other... I know i'd hate playing with this card, even though it's probably correctly priced. Just so anti-fun...


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Used Land Salesman
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+4 Cards.

While this is in play, when you buy a card, gain a Victory cards costing less than it.

Not "strictly" better than Council Room, but very, very close to it. I guess all those Victories can be a liability, but i still think it's too good... Also the name should reflect the similarity.
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Asper

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #2: Hinterlands
« Reply #162 on: September 09, 2013, 07:10:37 pm »
0

At the request of the author, I have changed Artefact's wording back such that when you buy it, it will eventually make its way into your discard pile without you actually ever gaining it.

Weird... I can't think of an interaction where that even matters.  I guess you can't Trader it away.  You can't Watchtower it.  Anything else?

Possession?

Edit: Oh, and Haggler. But definitely Possession, where the possessor may steal all your Artefacts.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2013, 07:32:45 pm by Asper »
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Aidan Millow

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #2: Hinterlands
« Reply #163 on: September 09, 2013, 07:17:50 pm »
+2

My thoughts (prior to reading everyone elses):
Disclaimer: None of these cards is mine, what happened to my submission will be explained later.

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Palanquin
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Action. You may discard an Action card. If you do, +1 Card per $ it costs.
Much too strong.

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Tribe
Types: Action
Cost: $3
+2 Actions. +$1. Look at the top 2 cards of your deck. Discard one and put the other anywhere in your deck.
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When you buy this, you may discard a card. If you do, +1 Buy and +$2.
As a village you want to be playing this a lot, it would be very annoying to put one of the cards anywhere in your deck again and again. Also the on buy is probably too strong.


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Quagmire
Types: Victory
Cost: $3
Worth 1 VP.
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When you gain this, trash 3 cards from a Supply pile.
I love this.


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Hinterland
Types: Action
Cost: $4
Swap the cards in your hand with the cards on your Hinterland mat.
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When you gain this, gain a Silver, putting it on your Hinterland mat.
Weird and probably marginal.

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Pilgrimage
Types: Action
Cost: $3
+1 Action. +2 Buys.
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While this is in play, when you gain a Victory card, Victory cards cost $1 less, but not less than $0.
I don't like on-gain cost changing

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Consulate
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+3 Cards. +1 Action. Discard 2 cards.
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When you gain this, each other player gains a Copper, putting it into his hand.
I submitted: "$4, +2 cards, +1 action, discard a card" but asked LFN to pull it after he pointed out that DXV had already tested it and found it too strong. This is quite a lot stronger.

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Trade Agreement
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+3 Cards.
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While this is in play, when you gain a Trade Agreement, gain a card costing up to $5.
First person to play this and hit $5 gets the entire pile if they want it. Probably needs to be “less than this” but then it’s just border smithy.

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Mountain Dwellers
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Card. +1 Action. Reveal your hand. If you revealed 3 or more Treasure cards, +$1.
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When you buy this, you may trash a Treasure card you have in play. Gain a Treasure card costing exactly $3 more than it.
I like the idea but it could be too strong.

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Emerald Vein
Types: Action – Victory
Cost: $5
+1 Action. Reveal your hand. +$1 per Victory card revealed.
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Worth 1 VP.
I want a hand of 5 of these to give me enough for Colony. It’s interesting enough though, if maybe somewhat weak at $5.

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Troglodyte Caves
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Card. +1 Action. Discard any number of cards. +1 Card per card discarded.
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When you gain this, you may reveal a card from your hand costing less than this. Gain a copy of it.
I like the idea of a non-terminal sifter that retains hand size and this looks like a good way for it to work. The on gain seems a little tacked on though.

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Vendor
Types: Action
Cost: $1
+1 Action
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When you buy this, +2 Buys.
I find this cute and I want to like it but it’s still too easy to empty the pile with cost reduction.

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Artefact
Types: Action
Cost: $2
+1 Card. +1 Action. Choose a card from your hand. Trash it, discard it, or put it on top of your deck.
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When you buy this, set it aside instead of gaining it. Discard it after you next shuffle your discard pile (or when the game ends).
Should be “gain” rather than “discard,” otherwise I like it.
Edit: Oh, right, Possession. That makes sense.

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Ring Leader
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $3
When you buy or play this, each player (including you) reveals the top 4 card of his deck, discards one that you choose, and puts the rest back in an order he chooses.
Marginal effect and slow to resolve, I don’t like this one.

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River
Types: Victory
Cost: $3
Worth 2 VP.
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When you gain this during your turn, all cards except Victory cards cost $2 less this turn, but not less than $0.
I still don’t like on gain cost reduction, nor do I like 2 Vp cards for $3.

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Factory
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $4
+1 Action. You may discard a card that is not a Victory card. If you do, gain a copy of it.
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When you gain a card, you may reveal this from your hand and put it onto your deck. If you do, put the gained card into your hand.
It’s interesting but it’s a lot of hoops to jump through for gaining copies of cards.

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Sanctuary
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+2 Cards. Discard 2 cards.
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When you gain this, set aside a card from your hand. Return that card to your deck at the end of the game.
You want to use this to replace a victory card with a card with a marginal effect. Seems like a $3 cost to me.

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Workers' Co-operative
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Buy. +$3.
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While this is in play, when you buy a card, each other player may gain a card costing less than it.
It’s Charity [A] (after the fix that most of us wanted) with a lesser effect on a (cheaper) terminal action. Seems too weak to me.

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Smelter
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Buy. +$1.
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While this is in play, when you buy a card, gain a Silver, putting it on top of your deck.
I don’t see anything wrong with it but I’m just not enthused.

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Witch Doctor
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+$1. Look through your deck; reveal and discard any number of Victory and Curse cards from it. Shuffle your deck.
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When you gain this, put your deck into your discard pile.
Probably shouldn’t exist (or should at least be reworded in an awkward manner) because Tunnel. Also seems a bit weak when compared to Scavenger.

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Diviner
Types: Action
Cost: $3
+2 Cards. +1 Buy.
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While this is in play, when you buy a card, reveal the top 2 cards of your deck, discard any number, and put the rest back on top in any order.
Pretty sure choosing how many to discard with an effect like this hasn’t been done at less than 5. I’d personally prefer this if it was the Survivors effect.

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Shoreline
Types: Victory
Cost: $6
Worth 4 VP.
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When you gain this, +1 Buy.
I don’t like having a large chunk of unconditional Vp at $6 like this.

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Mill
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Action. Each other player draws a card. Gain a card costing up to $5.
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When you gain this, each other player discards down to 3 cards in hand.
Should this really be nonterminal? Otherwise I quite like it.

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Travelling Salesman
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $5
Discard any number of Treasure cards from your hand. +2 Cards per card discarded.
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When another player gains a Victory card, you may discard this. If you do, gain a card costing less than the gained Victory card.
I feel like a couple of these could draw your deck too easily.

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Courier (A)
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $4
+1 Card. +1 Action. Discard any number of cards. Gain a card costing exactly $1 per card discarded.
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When you would gain a card other than during your Buy phase, you may discard this from your hand. If you do, gain a card costing up to $2 more instead.
This has even less reason to be non-terminal than Mill. I like the effect less overall as well.

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Oicho-Kabu
Types: Action – Victory
Cost: $5
+1 Buy. +$2.
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Worth 1 VP. While this is in play, when you buy a card, +$2 and discard the top card of your deck. If it's a Victory card, trash this.
Interesting but possibly too swingy.

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Wayfarer
Types: Action
Cost: $2
+1 Card. +1 Action. +1 Buy.
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When you buy this, you may trash a card from your hand. If you do, +$ equal to its cost in coins.
I don’t like having cantrip +buy at $2. Possibly at $3.

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Sultan
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+2 Cards. +1 Action. Discard a card.
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When you gain this, look at the top 3 cards of your deck. Discard any number of them and put the rest back in any order.
At $5 this effect is probably a tad weak but the on gain makes it reasonable.

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Safe House
Types: Victory – Reaction
Cost: $3
Worth 2 VP.
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When you gain a card costing $0, you may discard this. If you do, gain a Gold.
Is this the third $3, 2vp card in this contest?  That aside: Tunnel and Market square need help from at least another card to trigger. This doesn’t and when you get multiples the drawback of having to buy a copper quickly becomes negligible.

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Commander
Types: Victory
Cost: $5
Worth 2 VP
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When you gain this, gain a Reinforcement card, putting it on top of your deck.
Setup: Add an extra Action Kingdom card pile costing $5 to the Supply. Cards from that pile are Reinforcement cards and cannot be bought.

Clarification: Unlike most Victory cards, there are always 10 copies of Commander in the Supply regardless of the number of players.
This is pretty cool. I feel like the reinforcement pile shouldn’t be part of the supply though.

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Midnight Gathering
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Action. You may put your deck into your discard pile. Look through your discard pile. You may reveal an Action card from it; put it into your hand.
I like this a lot at $6. I think it’s too strong at $5.

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Pasture
Types: Victory – Reaction
Cost: $4
Worth 2 VP.
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When another player gains a Victory card, you may reveal and discard this along with any number of cards from your hand. If you do, +2 Cards per Pasture and +1 Card per other card discarded.
I like this.

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Trailblazer
Types: Action
Cost: $4
Gain a card costing up to $4.
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When you gain this, reveal the top 4 cards of your deck. Put any number of the revealed Victory cards and Curses into your hand. Put the other cards back in any order.
I’m not sure workshop is the right on play effect for this card. I like the scouting on gain though… Oh wait, Gardens/Silk Road rush, that works.

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Bargain
Types: Action
Cost: $4
You may trash a card from your hand. Gain a card costing exactly $1 more than it, a card costing exactly $2 more than it, and a card costing exactly $3 more than it. Discard down to 2 cards in hand.
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When you gain this, each player (including you) may trash a card from his hand.
Given that playing a card and trashing one already leaves you with 3 cards in hand (unless you’ve already drawn, which is feasible), I don’t feel that the drawback is enough to cost this at $4 (and I’m sceptical at $5 too).

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Clairvoyant
Types: Action
Cost: $3
+1 Action. Look at the top card of your deck. You may put it into your hand. Otherwise, +$1 and either discard it or put it back. Look through your discard pile and put a card from it or your hand at the bottom of your deck.
As written this is much stronger than vanilla peddler and should probably cost $6. The writing should definitely change though: as it stands there’s no reason to initially put the card you reveal into your hand as opposed to discarding it and picking it up after getting the money; 3 options here, remove the +$ outright, move it to after the + action or set the card aside then discard it after getting a card from your discard pile (and forbid getting copies of it from the discard pile too). Whichever way this is turning into something very similar to Midnight Gathering and I like it less.

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Fence
Types: Action
Cost: $5
While this is in play, when you buy a card, gain a card costing exactly $1 more than it.
I’m conflicted here: On the one hand, the action without an on-play effect is horrifying. On the other, it’s kind of awesome. What I’m not conflicted about is that this is much worse than Haggler; it’s probably okay at $4.

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Shaman
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Action. Name a card. Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal an Action card with that name. Put it into your hand and discard the rest.
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When you gain this, each other player discards any number of cards from his hand then draws a card per card discarded.
This is like Midnight Gathering (including needing to cost more) but less interesting to me (whoever designed Midnight Gathering is pretty lucky that it turned up first of these things in the Ballot).

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Tinker's Wagon
Types: Action
Cost: $4
Gain a card costing up to $4.
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When you gain this, move a card costing between $3 and $6 from the top of one Supply pile to the top of another.
An effect like this seems like it should be on a promo card to me. I think this might be something that would be fun the first time you played with it and just get annoying afterwards.

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Thrift Shop
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+1 Action. +$2. If this is not the first time you played Thrift Shop this turn, you may gain a card from the Thrift Shop mat.
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When you gain or play this, place a card costing up to $5 from the Supply onto the Thrift Shop mat.

Clarification: There is only one community Thrift Shop mat. Each player does not have his own.
I like this but I’m unsure about the balance.

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Grandee
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Buy. Gain a card costing up to $4.
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When you gain this, gain a Gold; each other player gains a Silver.
Feels bland and disjointed to me.

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Construct
Types: Action
Cost: $3
Trash a card from your hand. Gain two cards each costing exactly $1 more than it.
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When you gain this during your Action phase, +1 Card and +1 Action.
Interesting, possibly a bit too strong but you can’t really change it without wrecking it.

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Missionary
Types: Action
Cost: $4
Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal a Victory card. Gain an Action or Treasure card costing up to the Victory card's cost, putting it onto your deck. Discard the revealed cards.
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When you buy this, reveal a card from your hand. If that card costs $6 or less, gain a copy of it.
Probably too strong if you can trash your estates.

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Chapterhouse
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Action. +$1. Draw until you have 6 cards in hand. Discard 2 cards.
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When you buy this, each other player draws a card. When you gain this, each other player with at least 4 cards in hand discards a card.
Might be a little too strong, more importantly it’s convoluted and the potential to actually reduce your opponents’ hand sizes won’t come up often.

Quote
Barn
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Card. +1 Action. Discard a card. If you discarded a Victory or Curse card, gain a Treasure costing up to $4. Otherwise, +$1 and gain a Victory card costing up to $4. Put the gained card into your hand.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When you gain this, gain an Action card costing up to $4, putting it onto your deck.
This just has too much going on for the sake of going on.

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Huntsmen
Type: Action
Cost: $0*
+1 Action. +1 Buy.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When you gain this, +2 Buys. During your Buy phase, this costs $2 more for each card you've gained this turn.
Insert cost increaser argument here.
I’d rather this was only ruined village on play (see vendor) but the increasing cost fixes the “buy them all” problem quite nicely. Finally I don’t really like the flavour here: I imagine the designer got to Huntsmen from woodcutter via snow white but then, woodcutter doesn’t fit the +buy flavour very well either.

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Painful Journey
Types: Action – Curse – Reaction
Cost: $4
Discard any number of Curses. +2 Cards for each Curse discarded.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Worth –1 VP. When you would buy a Victory card, you may trash this from your hand. If you do, gain a Victory card costin less than the bought card and gain 2 Curses.

Clarification: You cannot gain this card when another card instructs you to gain a Curse.
Do we really need a card that gives us power for having curses?

Quote
Wagon Raider
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $4
Each other player may put a card costing more than $2 from their hand into your discard pile. If he doesn't, he gains a Curse.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
While this is in play, when you buy a Gold, you may gain a Province.
Over the line: I’d rather it say “costing three or more” but this is an interesting attack (if maybe a little too strong).
Under the line: What?! What?! No!

Quote
Nomadic Village
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $4
+1 Card. +2 Actions.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When you gain this, put it into your hand.
When an opponent gains an Action card, you may discard this. If you do, search your discard pile for an Action card and put it into your hand.
I don’t like the name or the on gain effect (the latter is only relevant with a non-terminal gainer (or a village followed by a gainer I suppose) and the former is a bit oxymoronic and too much like nomad camp)). With a different name and the on gain effect gone, it might be a bit too powerful at $4 but it’s worth looking at.

Quote
Stranger
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Card. +1 Action. +1 Buy. Each other player discards the top card of his deck. Copies of cards revealed this way cost $2 less this turn, but not less than $0.
Swingy but pretty cool.

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Courier (B)
Types: Action
Cost: $2
+1 Action. +1 Buy.
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When you discard this from play, if you bought no more than one card this turn, you may put this on top of your deck.
Using the walled village mechanic for +buy is a good idea but the card needs to be something that you actually want in your hand. This isn’t.

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Sawmill
Types: Action
Cost: $3
+1 Action. +1 Buy.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When you gain this, set it aside onto your Sawmill mat. At the start of each of your turns, you may put any number of cards from your mat into your hand.
This is a novel idea for a +buy card. It could probably cost 2 though.

Quote
Pyramid
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Action. +$1. +1 Card per Pyramid you have in play. Discard one card per Pyramid you have in play.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When you buy this, gain an extra copy of it.
It’s a hand size reducer that get better (buy sifting more) in multiples; that isn’t going to work out well.

Quote
Lucky Coin
Type: Treasure
Cost: $4
Worth $1.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When you gain this, each other player with at least 5 cards in hand reveals his hand and discards a card that you choose.
You junk yourself with what is effectively a copper to do the pillage attack. This seems really weak for $4. The problem is, if it cost less I think it would let whoever got an engine running first run everyone else out of the game by buying 1 each turn.

Quote
Used Land Salesman
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+4 Cards.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
While this is in play, when you buy a card, gain a Victory cards costing less than it.
This is interesting. It’s a powerful effect that sabotages you while you build but turns into an advantage when you start greening. I’m a bit concerned about the balance.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2013, 07:19:23 pm by Aidan Millow »
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LastFootnote

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #2: Hinterlands
« Reply #164 on: September 09, 2013, 07:23:04 pm »
0

At the author's bequest, I'm adding a clarification to Pilgrimage. It reduces costs each time you gain a Victory card, even within the same turn.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #2: Hinterlands
« Reply #165 on: September 09, 2013, 07:25:27 pm »
+1

Quote
Hinterland
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Action. Choose one: Gain a Silver, putting in on your Hinterland mat; or swap the cards in your hand with the cards on your Hinterland mat.

When you gain this, gain a Silver, putting it on your Hinterland mat.

Those changes make it an entirely different card. In fact, the Silver gaining is probably now the most important part of the card. In its original form, it was probably worse than Scout, and even the +1 Action only gets it into the Scout territory. Sure, I'm all for voting for cards with interesting concepts, but this seems like too big of a change to assume to vote for, and would feel entirely different than the submitted card.

That's fair. I'm guessing it won't win, but I hope the author resubmits an updated version for the second Hinterlands contest.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #2: Hinterlands
« Reply #166 on: September 09, 2013, 07:31:24 pm »
+2

Quote
Fence
Types: Action
Cost: $5
While this is in play, when you gain a card, gain a card costing exactly $1 more than it.

This is broken, as it will allow you to gain a whole pile of $5s and the Border Village pile. It is also odd because it has no "Action effect".

Whoa, totally missed this bug with Border Village.  Easy fix is "when you BUY a card".

It doesn't even need Border Village for that. You gain a card, react to that gaining - by what? By gaining. What stops you to react to that, too?

Quote
Pyramid
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Action. +$1. +1 Card per Pyramid you have in play. Discard one card per Pyramid you have in play.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When you buy this, gain an extra copy of it.
It’s a hand size reducer that get better (buy sifting more) in multiples; that isn’t going to work out well.

Not a handsize reducer, but an Oasis.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #2: Hinterlands
« Reply #167 on: September 09, 2013, 07:34:13 pm »
0

Quote
Fence
Types: Action
Cost: $5
While this is in play, when you gain a card, gain a card costing exactly $1 more than it.

This is broken, as it will allow you to gain a whole pile of $5s and the Border Village pile. It is also odd because it has no "Action effect".

Whoa, totally missed this bug with Border Village.  Easy fix is "when you BUY a card".

It doesn't even need Border Village for that. You gain a card, react to that gaining - by what? By gaining. What stops you to react to that, too?

The lack of cards for $7, or failing that $10.  ;D
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #2: Hinterlands
« Reply #168 on: September 09, 2013, 07:46:14 pm »
0

OK, yeah, Consulate is way too powerful for $4.  Wonder if it works at $5.

Possession for Artefact -- good call.

River
Types: Victory
Cost: $3
Worth 2 VP.
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When you gain this during your turn, all cards except Victory cards cost $2 less this turn, but not less than $0.
I still don’t like on gain cost reduction, nor do I like 2 Vp cards for $3.
[/quote]

What's wrong with 2VP for $3?  There's Tunnel.  Or do you mean that you don't like there being two different VP cards costing $3 in the same [Hinterlands] set?

Quote
Fence
Types: Action
Cost: $5
While this is in play, when you gain a card, gain a card costing exactly $1 more than it.

This is broken, as it will allow you to gain a whole pile of $5s and the Border Village pile. It is also odd because it has no "Action effect".

Whoa, totally missed this bug with Border Village.  Easy fix is "when you BUY a card".

It doesn't even need Border Village for that. You gain a card, react to that gaining - by what? By gaining. What stops you to react to that, too?

Yeah.  Yeah.  "When you Buy a card" fixes that too though.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #2: Hinterlands
« Reply #169 on: September 09, 2013, 08:06:31 pm »
+4

The real issue with the old Fence is if you had multiple in play.  Play x Fences.  Buy 1 Estate.  Gain x $3 cards.  Gain x^2 $4 cards.  Gain x^3 $5 cards...
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #2: Hinterlands
« Reply #170 on: September 09, 2013, 08:13:15 pm »
0

The real issue with the old Fence is if you had multiple in play.  Play x Fences.  Buy 1 Estate.  Gain x $3 cards.  Gain x^2 $4 cards.  Gain x^3 $5 cards...

And, with Border Village...
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

SirPeebles

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #2: Hinterlands
« Reply #171 on: September 09, 2013, 08:19:35 pm »
+5

The real issue with the old Fence is if you had multiple in play.  Play x Fences.  Buy 1 Estate.  Gain x $3 cards.  Gain x^2 $4 cards.  Gain x^3 $5 cards...

And, with Border Village...

Along with Death Cart, Cache, and Poor House.

Also, Quagmire is ridiculous with on-trash bonuses. 
Quote
Quagmire
Types: Victory
Cost: $3
Worth 1 VP.

When you gain this, trash 3 cards from a Supply pile.
Tear through Fortresses, adding them to your hand.  Cultists, drawing 9 cards.  Or Catacombs, gaining more Quagmires.

If I'm player 1 and open with at least $3, I'll buy a Quagmire.  Trash 3 Catacombs.  Gain 3 Quagmires.  Trash 6 Catacombs and 3 Provinces.  Gain 2 Quagmires and 4 Estates.  Trash the remaining 5 Provinces.  I win 7 to 3.

Edit:  Oh, Quagmires are worth Victory points themselves?  I don't even need to bother with the Estates.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2013, 08:25:49 pm by SirPeebles »
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Polk5440

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #2: Hinterlands
« Reply #172 on: September 09, 2013, 08:38:36 pm »
0

I am not going to comment on all of the cards, but I do have some things to say about my favorites and some others.

General comments: First, I just don’t like most of the workshop-like cards this time. Not sure if it’s the cards aren’t interesting or it’s just my preferences this time. Second, I don’t like the cards that give cost reduction or extra buys upon gaining or buying the card. I’ve playtested a few cards in this category in the past and decided I don’t like the idea anymore. It doesn’t work as well as you think it should. This goes doubly for the cards where the ability only matters when you already have extra buys. Third, several of the cards or the below the line abilities are just way out of whack power-wise even if you try to pick an appropriate cost. I just don’t want to comment on them all. I am sure others will.

Quote
Hinterland
Types: Action
Cost: $4
Swap the cards in your hand with the cards on your Hinterland mat.

When you gain this, gain a Silver, putting it on your Hinterland mat.

This is almost a favorite for me. I really, really like the “swap hand with mat” mechanic. It reminds me of Native Village, and you know what? I want the Native Village set-aside option and rules above the line, as well: “Choose one: Set aside the top card of your deck face down on your Hinterland mat; or swap the cards in your hand with the cards on your Hinterland mat.” And you have to add the bit about being able to look at your cards on your mat and adding them back to your deck (or not? -- not sure what the intent is) at the end of the game. And boy that’s a whole block of text, with a (necessary?) below the line ability to boot which is not a good thing.

This will be very tricky to make work, but I like the idea.

Other than having a below the line ability, I am not sure if it feels Hinterland-y enough, either. Whether I vote for this will depend on how much I decide to weigh “interesting experiment” versus “represents Hinterlands.” Also, this is uses a new mat for each person -- another negative.

Quote
Consulate
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+3 Cards. +1 Action. Discard 2 cards.

When you gain this, each other player gains a Copper, putting it into his hand.

I like several of the sifting cards this time around. I think sifting represents Hinterlands well. This one is Embassy x Warehouse with an interesting on gain externality. It’s like giving your opponents +$1, but more interestingly since there is clog potential as well. It’s sometimes good for your opponents and sometimes bad.

The potential concerns noted above about power are easy fixes in playtesting: if it’s too strong, either make it $5 or kill the +1 Action. This is not obviously overpowered to me, though. (Based on comments below, this is probably overpowered at $4 and one of the tweaks will be needed.)

Quote
Mountain Dwellers
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Card. +1 Action. Reveal your hand. If you revealed 3 or more Treasure cards, +$1.

When you buy this, you may trash a Treasure card you have in play. Gain a Treasure card costing exactly $3 more than it.

The wording is awkward and I shy away from cards that make you reveal your hand every time. This would be better if it read “You may reveal 3 Treasures from your hand, if you do, +$1.” Even so, I don’t know if the one time Mine is interesting enough to add to this sometimes-Peddler. And really, who wants a Peddler in a treasure deck, anyway? I don’t think adding this to any kingdom really adds much of anything.

Quote
Emerald Vein
Types: Action – Victory
Cost: $5
+1 Action. Reveal your hand. +$1 per Victory card revealed.

Worth 1 VP.

Ok. So this is very similar to many ideas that were submitted to last year’s contest at various points in time, and very similar to cards I either created, or really liked. I think the consensus was that it worked best as a Treasure, but I do personally like it as an Action, too.

The problem is that as an Action that gives +1 Action every time, this is crazy strong with cards like Crossroads. I playtested a variant of this last year that only gave the action the first time you played the card (granted, at a much lower cost), and still, it was just broken with Crossroads. Crossroads-that card was always the backbone of the best strategy on the board. So while I really like the idea, I am concerned that even at $5, Emerald Vein is just not ever going to be balanced. In practice, making a balanced non-terminal secret chamber/vault is harder than it looks.

But, as this is one of the few fan card concepts I have enjoyed playtesting and the situations in which it’s just too strong (Crossroads on the board) is sufficiently small, as a fan card, it will probably get my vote, anyway.

Maybe make it 0 VP to weaken it some? I do like the Victory card dual flavor.

Quote
Troglodyte Caves
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Card. +1 Action. Discard any number of cards. +1 Card per card discarded.

When you gain this, you may reveal a card from your hand costing less than this. Gain a copy of it.

This is another sifter I really like. I am not so sure about the on-gain ability, though. I am not sure it’s enough to make this card worth $5. But cost adjustments are an easy fix. Definitely feels like Hinterlands.

Quote
Witch Doctor
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+$1. Look through your deck; reveal and discard any number of Victory and Curse cards from it. Shuffle your deck.

When you gain this, put your deck into your discard pile.

The main ability seems really, really good. Like better than Inn’s on-gain ability good in too many cases. Maybe I don’t get it.

Also, I thought this was going to be a joke submission.

Quote
Sultan
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+2 Cards. +1 Action. Discard a card.

When you gain this, look at the top 3 cards of your deck. Discard any number of them and put the rest back in any order.

Another interesting great sifter. I like this, too. Might be too similar to Cartographer, though. 

Quote
Commander
Types: Victory
Cost: $5
Worth 2 VP

When you gain this, gain a Reinforcement card, putting it on top of your deck.
Setup: Add an extra Action Kingdom card pile costing $5 to the Supply. Cards from that pile are Reinforcement cards and cannot be bought.

Clarification: Unlike most Victory cards, there are always 10 copies of Commander in the Supply regardless of the number of players.

This reminds me too much in a negative way of IGG. Either this is going to be really good, and you go for the rush (emptying two $5 piles) or uninteresting because the $5 card is Explorer and you will buy Duchy on $5. Actually allowing you to buy Reinforcements would fix that problem, but in any case, I think we can do better for Victory cards.

Quote
Midnight Gathering
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Action. You may put your deck into your discard pile. Look through your discard pile. You may reveal an Action card from it; put it into your hand.

So this is in the Chancellor/Scavenger category? I like this card, but I don’t know that it feels like Hinterlands enough for me.

Quote
Clairvoyant
Types: Action
Cost: $3
+1 Action. Look at the top card of your deck. You may put it into your hand. Otherwise, +$1 and either discard it or put it back. Look through your discard pile and put a card from it or your hand at the bottom of your deck.

I REALLY like the idea of putting a card on the bottom of your deck. But I have a better idea on how to implement that mechanic and am planning on submitting it to a future week. So I won’t be voting for this, sorry. :P

Quote
Fence
Types: Action
Cost: $5
While this is in play, when you buy a card, gain a card costing exactly $1 more than it.

EDIT: Changed from "when you gain a card" to "when you buy a card".

Is this instead? So it’s an automatic Upgrade? Or in addition? Either way there’s problems, I think.


Quote
Chapterhouse
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Action. +$1. Draw until you have 6 cards in hand. Discard 2 cards.

When you buy this, each other player draws a card. When you gain this, each other player with at least 4 cards in hand discards a card.

The above the line ability is clever. I don’t so much care for the on-buy/on-gain abilities.

Quote
Barn
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Card. +1 Action. Discard a card. If you discarded a Victory or Curse card, gain a Treasure costing up to $4. Otherwise, +$1 and gain a Victory card costing up to $4. Put the gained card into your hand.

When you gainbuy this, gain an Action card costing up to $4, putting it onto your deck.

This is very nice! Definitely the best of the workshop variants.

As people have noted, there is an autopiling problem, but that is because of incorrect wording. If this used the Border Village language of “gain a Victory card costing less than this” and “when you gain this, gain an action costing less than this”, etc. that fixes that problem. Easy, peasy. Gain->buy fixes it, too.

Quote
Stranger
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Card. +1 Action. +1 Buy. Each other player discards the top card of his deck. Copies of cards revealed this way cost $2 less this turn, but not less than $0.

I think this is the best of the cost reducers, but I don’t know if it’s interesting enough to get my vote.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2013, 12:44:26 pm by Polk5440 »
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Tables

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #2: Hinterlands
« Reply #173 on: September 09, 2013, 08:47:09 pm »
+1

The real issue with the old Fence is if you had multiple in play.  Play x Fences.  Buy 1 Estate.  Gain x $3 cards.  Gain x^2 $4 cards.  Gain x^3 $5 cards...

This is pretty much the first thing I say in my video about it:P. Play 2 Fences. Buy an Estate, gain 16 Golds. I don't see the problem with this  ::)
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...spin-offs are still better for all of the previously cited reasons.
But not strictly better, because the spinoff can have a different cost than the expansion.

SirPeebles

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #2: Hinterlands
« Reply #174 on: September 09, 2013, 08:54:06 pm »
+2

Perhaps happens Artefact is discarded rather than gained to avoid triggering on-gain effects after the game ends?
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