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[TheOthin]

That's very extreme. What about leaving it at +2 Cards and just having the option of discarding any one card upon gaining Town for it?

[LastFootnote]

That's very extreme. What about leaving it at +2 Cards and just having the option of discarding any one card upon gaining Town for it?

That's like not having an extra cost at all. Extreme can be fun.

[pacovf]

I like LFN's suggestion, although it is moving the card in a different direction altogether.

One problem with that version is that by the time you can discard a province, there might not be any town left to gain, if it's the only village in the kingdom...

[LastFootnote]

I like LFN's suggestion, although it is moving the card in a different direction altogether.

One problem with that version is that by the time you can discard a province, there might not be any town left to gain, if it's the only village in the kingdom...

Yes, I'd thought of that. Better get that Province quickly!

[TheOthin]

Don't we already have two cards that let you use Provinces to get cool shit?

[LastFootnote]

Don't we already have two cards that let you use Provinces to get cool shit?

And we have 204 cards that don't! This lets you use Provinces to get cool shit on-gain, which might be interesting.

[pacovf]

Yes, I'd thought of that. Better get that Province quickly!

Mmm... that's just not going to happen in multiplayer games. Are you happy with that?

[LastFootnote]

Yes, I'd thought of that. Better get that Province quickly!

Mmm... that's just not going to happen in multiplayer games. Are you happy with that?

Well, no. But I don't think we should necessarily assume that will happen. I mean it's quite possible that it will. But it's also possible that players will usually want to leave some in the pile so that they can try to snag a Road later. And if you're gunning for a fast Province, you don't necessarily want a lot of villages early.

[pacovf]

Definitely, but if another player just bought an early province, and there's one or two Towns left, you can bet that I am buying them. On the other hand, if you avoid buying Town specifically to avoid that happening, then there might not be that many left after you get your Road, which sort of defeats the point of forcing a village to be in the same kingdom as Road in the first place.

(I am talking about multiplayer games here)

[TheOthin]

It just strikes me as very strange to incorporate this kind of Tournament-like luck here.

[LastFootnote]

It just strikes me as very strange to incorporate this kind of Tournament-like luck here.

There's way less luck than Tournament because you only have to collide your Province with a $4 of cash. That's not tough.

[pacovf]

It's less luck-dependent than tournament because you only need to collide the Province with a $4 hand, and because all Roads are identical.

Another idea would be to make Town a 15-card pile or something. You know, just to make the whole Town-Road thing even more crazy.

PPE: ninja'd.

[TheOthin]

It's definitely not the same, but hitting $8 first still isn't that easy.

[LastFootnote]

Definitely, but if another player just bought an early province, and there's one or two Towns left, you can bet that I am buying them. On the other hand, if you avoid buying Town specifically to avoid that happening, then there might not be that many left after you get your Road, which sort of defeats the point of forcing a village to be in the same kingdom as Road in the first place.

(I am talking about multiplayer games here)

You are making good points. Here are my counterpoints. First, this concept is pretty unlike anything Dominion has, so it's very hard for us to predict how it would actually play out. I'm sure that, especially in e.g. a 4-player game, Towns would sometimes run out before anybody got a Road. But how often would that really be the case? If they run out first 90% of the time, obviously that's no good. But if it only happens 10% of the time, that's fine. Sometimes there will be other villages, and if you're not getting a Road, those other villages are probably better, so players will be less likely to buy Towns early. Sometimes multiple players will be gunning for that early Province, leaving enough Towns left over. I'm just saying that with something this exotic, it bears testing before we jump to conclusions.

One solution is to have the ability be on-trash or on-gain-or-trash.

[TheOthin]

If not for Diadem already having the "trade away all your excess Actions" property, I'd say an especially powerful Road available as a reward for getting Provinces and in need of a Village to be worthwhile may as well just be another Prize. It wouldn't be guaranteed to show up with Villages that way, but you could just pass it up for the other Prizes in that case.

[LastFootnote]

If not for Diadem already having the "trade away all your excess Actions" property, I'd say an especially powerful Road available as a reward for getting Provinces and in need of a Village to be worthwhile may as well just be another Prize. It wouldn't be guaranteed to show up with Villages that way, but you could just pass it up for the other Prizes in that case.

Yes, having it as a Prize is definitely a very plausible option.

[pacovf]

Note that Diadem transforms villages into peddlers, and that the +3 card Road transforms villages into triple labs.

You know. For power level comparison.

[LastFootnote]

Note that Diadem transforms villages into peddlers, and that the +3 card Road transforms villages into triple labs.

You know. For power level comparison.

True, although you can draw Diadem anytime during your turn, whereas Road gets way worse the later you draw it.

EDIT: Also, Diadem is usually weak.

[pacovf]

Haha, gotcha! You were defending Diadem before you realized what you were doing.

Talking about the devil, from the Secret History of Cornucopia:

Diadem started in the large version of Alchemy long ago, as an Action: "+$2. Return this to your hand." It was a cute combo with Villages, but useless without them. I then tried some "choose one" versions, which solved the problem of it sometimes being dead, but didn't make the actions-to-money part any better. I eventually gave up on it, and well here it is at last.

So, will we find another working version of this concept?


PPE:

Note that Diadem transforms villages into peddlers Bazaars, and that the +3 card Road transforms villages into triple labs.

You know. For power level comparison.

ftfy

Not really, though. If you use the extra action, you lose the coin.

EDIT: sorry, too late 

[LastFootnote]

Note that Diadem transforms villages into peddlers Bazaars, and that the +3 card Road transforms villages into triple labs.

You know. For power level comparison.

ftfy

That's not quite right. With Diadem, you either get the +$1 or the +1 Action from your villages, but not both.

But neither does Road make villages triple Labs. It's more double-Labs. You can't count the Road itself in the draw. The Road just gives you a Smithy after all the conversion is done. Similarly, the Diadem is a Silver after the conversion.

[pacovf]

I don't get what you are saying. As long as you are holding a Diadem in your hand, any village can be a peddler. As long as you are holding a +3 card Road in your hand, any village can be a triple-lab.

Once you've done the conversion, Road is a smithy and Diadem is a gold, or Road is dead and Diadem is a silver, depending on how you look at it.

[TheOthin]

Draw Village and Super-Road, play both, and you end up with an 8-card hand and one Action, just like if you played three Labs. Get another Village through that and play it and you end up with an 11-card hand.

Unlike other Actions, most relevantly Smithy, Road doesn't leave your hand when you play it. It does, however, ensure that whenever you're done playing Roads, you'll still have one left in your hand and likely dead, decreasing the total card gain by 1. But there are still ways of making use of that, such as cards with discarding or top-deck effects.

[LastFootnote]

Ah, yeah, I think I get it now. You're right. Perhaps +2 Cards is more reasonable. Although, again, you have to draw Road early.

I think the most important thing I learned from Donald while playtesting Adventures is to try the crazy-looking version first. That way, if it works, you get to have something that looks crazy. And it's better to have cool-looking cards than mediocre-looking cards.

[TheOthin]

It's more that you have to draw Road before you run out of non-Road draws. If you play five Villages and draw Road on the last one, you can burn all the Actions you racked up earlier from those Villages.

[XerxesPraelor]

What about making it duchy to steer things a different way from normal and to make it easier for Roads to be gotten?