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Author Topic: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?  (Read 613457 times)

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blueblimp

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #2475 on: February 02, 2016, 10:50:00 pm »
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I mostly just play brawl so this doesn't do much to me. Making adventures unplayable for newer players seems stupid, but I've already bought them so again it doesn't do much to me.

I'm skeptical that the Standard meta will be much more enjoyable than the current meta. On the plus side, good riddance to some auto-include midrange cards (Piloted Shredder, Dr. Boom). On the negative side, can slow decks survive the loss of tools like Zombie Chow, Sludge Belcher, Antique Healbot? I'd be surprised if any Reno deck found viability in Standard, too.
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KingZog3

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #2476 on: February 02, 2016, 11:53:45 pm »
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I mostly just play brawl so this doesn't do much to me. Making adventures unplayable for newer players seems stupid, but I've already bought them so again it doesn't do much to me.

I'm skeptical that the Standard meta will be much more enjoyable than the current meta. On the plus side, good riddance to some auto-include midrange cards (Piloted Shredder, Dr. Boom). On the negative side, can slow decks survive the loss of tools like Zombie Chow, Sludge Belcher, Antique Healbot? I'd be surprised if any Reno deck found viability in Standard, too.

At the same time, all the TGT cards were slow, and it was most of the fast GVG and BRB cards that were taking over. No more Muster, no Shredders, no Boom. No Avenge, no scientists for hunters

EDIT: No minibot, no coghammer, no quartermaster. As long as they also introduce some new taunts or heals, slow decks can survive. I mean, Priest never really ran many taunts anyway, despite always being slow.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2016, 11:58:58 pm by KingZog3 »
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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #2477 on: February 03, 2016, 01:26:48 am »
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By switching to this format, they're probably going to do what MTG does - release the same cards over and over again with different names.  Before this, there were certain unique cards.  Some will stay unique, since they're basic/classic - Knife Juggler, Defender of Argus, Malygos - but others in Naxx or GvG that add something interesting to decks - Loatheb, Floating Watcher, Kezan Mystic, Enhance-o Mechano, Hobgoblin, Tree of Life, Steamwheedle Sniper, Echo of Medivh - it's not just "oh, that's a cool card, I'll miss it", they do things no other card does.  Which means in future expansions, there will probably be "Ice Floating Watcher" that does the same fucking thing, just with a different expansion symbol.
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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #2478 on: February 03, 2016, 02:33:41 am »
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If they do what MtG does, they will actually release the same card with the same name. MtG reprints with the same name because they care about the older formats and are careful not to let players play 8 copies of a card unless they think it's okay. Name changes are only for flavor reasons or rules quirk reasons.
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Grujah

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #2479 on: February 03, 2016, 05:17:14 am »
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Yeah, since Ben announced HS formats, I've seen this argument multiple times, and its simply not true. They reprint old card under the old name, maybe a new art, so you can still play with your old stuff and it doesn't screw up old formats by allowing extra copies. They reprint under a new name occasionally,  mostly for flavor reasons, but even then:

-Usually commons, or uncommons. Never rares / Mythics
-Almost always some cards that completely do not matter as are just not relevant in old formats
-In rare cases it's a relevant common/uncommon (like LLanowar Elves -> Elvish Mystic) but even than it's quite rare and I believe with a lot of caution.
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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #2480 on: February 03, 2016, 11:22:10 am »
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It's interesting (to me) that Blizzard is willing to release cards that are strictly better than others.  Evil Heckler costs one less than Booty Bay Bodyguard.
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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #2481 on: February 03, 2016, 11:32:52 am »
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It's interesting (to me) that Blizzard is willing to release cards that are strictly better than others.  Evil Heckler costs one less than Booty Bay Bodyguard.

This came up a lot when TGT was coming out, but the best argument I heard was from Trump, saying that this is not power creep that matters. It doesn't affect the game, and really it's just blizzard making filler cards. Power creep that matter is Piloted Shredder, because it out classes almost every single 4 drop. Evil Heckler is just a correction on Booty Bay while at the same time padding an expansion. So it's annoying that they didn't make more new cards, but the strictly better thing doesn't matter because no one was playing Booty Bay and no one is playing Evil Heckler.
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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #2482 on: February 03, 2016, 01:55:37 pm »
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It's interesting (to me) that Blizzard is willing to release cards that are strictly better than others.  Evil Heckler costs one less than Booty Bay Bodyguard.

This came up a lot when TGT was coming out, but the best argument I heard was from Trump, saying that this is not power creep that matters. It doesn't affect the game, and really it's just blizzard making filler cards. Power creep that matter is Piloted Shredder, because it out classes almost every single 4 drop. Evil Heckler is just a correction on Booty Bay while at the same time padding an expansion. So it's annoying that they didn't make more new cards, but the strictly better thing doesn't matter because no one was playing Booty Bay and no one is playing Evil Heckler.

And those strictly better cards will eventually get phased out in standard anyway. Once that happens, Booty Bay Bodyguard will get its chance to shine once again.

As an aside, I found the title "Wild Mode" to be kind of fitting. It's wild as in "here there be Wild Growth". I'm curious if the Ramp Druid archetype will manage to survive in Standard.
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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #2483 on: February 03, 2016, 02:03:57 pm »
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It's interesting (to me) that Blizzard is willing to release cards that are strictly better than others.  Evil Heckler costs one less than Booty Bay Bodyguard.

This came up a lot when TGT was coming out, but the best argument I heard was from Trump, saying that this is not power creep that matters. It doesn't affect the game, and really it's just blizzard making filler cards. Power creep that matter is Piloted Shredder, because it out classes almost every single 4 drop. Evil Heckler is just a correction on Booty Bay while at the same time padding an expansion. So it's annoying that they didn't make more new cards, but the strictly better thing doesn't matter because no one was playing Booty Bay and no one is playing Evil Heckler.

And those strictly better cards will eventually get phased out in standard anyway. Once that happens, Booty Bay Bodyguard will get its chance to shine once again.

As an aside, I found the title "Wild Mode" to be kind of fitting. It's wild as in "here there be Wild Growth". I'm curious if the Ramp Druid archetype will manage to survive in Standard.

Well, Wild Growth is Basic IIRC, and most of the rest of the Druid combo is Classic.  Are they phasing out Classic as well?
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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #2484 on: February 03, 2016, 03:02:54 pm »
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It's interesting (to me) that Blizzard is willing to release cards that are strictly better than others.  Evil Heckler costs one less than Booty Bay Bodyguard.

This came up a lot when TGT was coming out, but the best argument I heard was from Trump, saying that this is not power creep that matters. It doesn't affect the game, and really it's just blizzard making filler cards. Power creep that matter is Piloted Shredder, because it out classes almost every single 4 drop. Evil Heckler is just a correction on Booty Bay while at the same time padding an expansion. So it's annoying that they didn't make more new cards, but the strictly better thing doesn't matter because no one was playing Booty Bay and no one is playing Evil Heckler.

And those strictly better cards will eventually get phased out in standard anyway. Once that happens, Booty Bay Bodyguard will get its chance to shine once again.

As an aside, I found the title "Wild Mode" to be kind of fitting. It's wild as in "here there be Wild Growth". I'm curious if the Ramp Druid archetype will manage to survive in Standard.

Well, Wild Growth is Basic IIRC, and most of the rest of the Druid combo is Classic.  Are they phasing out Classic as well?

No they aren't phasing out Basic. They might nerf some stuff from Basic. I guess I didn't realize that Dr. Boom, Shade of Naxx, Piloted Shredder and Darnassus Aspirant make up most of the cards used from other expansions in Ramp Druid.
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Jorbles

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #2485 on: February 03, 2016, 03:49:02 pm »
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I think Ramp will always exist in some form. There will always be big minions, Innervate, Wild Growth. Force/Savage combo might get tweaked in the coming year as they said they're going to play around with some of the Basic/Classic cards, but I think the Innervate/WG stuff will always be there.
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Grujah

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #2486 on: February 03, 2016, 03:53:47 pm »
+1

If they leave combo, wild growth, innervate, and lets say KoTL untouched, it will still be very hard to have Druid take another route, but we'll see.

Brian Kibler made an excelent video:




(Do not think that I am not supporting this change. It is one of the best announcments since they made the game. And so does Kibler, he just takes issue with  exact implementation, and his points are quite valid). But, as I said, we'll see.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2016, 03:55:05 pm by Grujah »
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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #2487 on: February 03, 2016, 05:43:29 pm »
+1

If they leave combo, wild growth, innervate, and lets say KoTL untouched, it will still be very hard to have Druid take another route, but we'll see.

Brian Kibler made an excelent video:




(Do not think that I am not supporting this change. It is one of the best announcments since they made the game. And so does Kibler, he just takes issue with  exact implementation, and his points are quite valid). But, as I said, we'll see.

*THE* Brian "Brian "Brian "Brian Kibler" Kibler" Kibler" Kibler of BMK Gaming? And playmat fame?

Grujah

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #2488 on: February 03, 2016, 06:10:22 pm »
+2

No, this is actually Brian "Don't call me Brian "Brian "Brian Kibler" Kibler" Kibler of BMK Gaming.
Yeah, one of my very favourite MTG pros, and a friend at LGS has his signed playmat, and it is even more glorious in person.

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werothegreat

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #2489 on: February 03, 2016, 08:06:14 pm »
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I think if they're ever going to add one or more new classes, it'll be with the release of Standard.  Since they're doing a pass over the Basic/Classic cards anyway, they could just slide in new class cards into both sets while they're at it.  Although having a rotating format will make it easier to add a new class in future as well.
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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #2490 on: February 03, 2016, 10:30:47 pm »
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no idea how he has time to play Hearthstone and MtG both at such a high level.  Does he have a day job?
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Kirian

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #2491 on: February 03, 2016, 10:31:42 pm »
+1

no idea how he has time to play Hearthstone and MtG both at such a high level.  Does he have a day job?

When you play at that level, it is his day job.
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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #2492 on: February 03, 2016, 10:37:12 pm »
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I can't get over how they said so many times they have more options in a digital space and probably won't do the same thing as MtG, then they actually announce that after "lots of brainstorming" they are doing exactly the same thing as MtG and are copying the name too.
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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #2493 on: February 04, 2016, 12:21:40 am »
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no idea how he has time to play Hearthstone and MtG both at such a high level.  Does he have a day job?

When you play at that level, it is his day job.

Pretty sure Kibler makes most of his money streaming. He's playing about 5 days a week usually.
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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #2494 on: February 04, 2016, 12:30:38 am »
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I can't get over how they said so many times they have more options in a digital space and probably won't do the same thing as MtG, then they actually announce that after "lots of brainstorming" they are doing exactly the same thing as MtG and are copying the name too.

Well, maybe it took them lots of brainstorming to realize what MtG is doing is the best after all.
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KingZog3

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #2495 on: February 04, 2016, 01:03:11 am »
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So I'm entering a tournament on the 20th, and I need 4 decks from 4 different classes. I slapped together an aggro shaman list, a secret pally list, 1 empty deck slot and a weird one, echo mage. Everything is aggro now, so I made this to counter aggro. here's the list

Mirror Image x2
Arcane Explosion x1
Frostbolt x2
Explosive Sheep x2
Mad Scientist x2
Arcane Intellect x1
Duplicate x1
Ice Barrier x2
Ice Block x2
Acolyte of Pain x1
Echo of Medivh x2
Polymorph x1
Senjin Shieldmasta x1
Antique Healbot x2
Ethereal Conjurer x1
Sludge Belcher x2
Blizzard x2
Flamestrike x1
Molten Giant x2

So far it wins fairly often. I need more data on all matchups because I played vs a large variaty of aggro decks, but with good play it does well vs Shaman, Hunters, ok vs wariors if you can save board clears for the Patrons, and Secret Pally seems to be an ok matchup. Of course not easy, but far from impossible. Ive been super happy with arcane explosion because it kills so much that people play these days.

If anyone is willing to play some games against me, message me if I'm online and I might be willing to practice this or the aggro decks. Also, any ideas for the last slot? What's good now/in some regular tournament?
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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #2496 on: February 04, 2016, 04:27:50 am »
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What's good now/in some regular tournament?

Midrange Druid seems the obvious omission from your list.  It has the weakness that some people might be gunning for Druid and Paladin, but the raw power level is very high and you have very few unwinnable matchups.
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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #2497 on: February 04, 2016, 05:23:54 am »
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I reckon zoo is coming back a bit as well, that's an option. Probably MRD is better though.

Add me if you like, whenever I'm around I'd be up for some games against that.
Knowing the list helps of course.
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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #2498 on: February 04, 2016, 08:13:06 am »
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no idea how he has time to play Hearthstone and MtG both at such a high level.  Does he have a day job?

When you play at that level, it is his day job.

Pretty sure Kibler makes most of his money streaming. He's playing about 5 days a week usually.

I assume streaming would count as 'playing'. Certainly I don't think you can make a great living just playing? (Actually I don't know what HS payouts are like, but it's pretty tough to do so in MTG without also e.g. writing articles). However, Kibler also does some game design work.

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #2499 on: February 04, 2016, 09:08:53 am »
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Streamers generally make decent money from the advertisements on their streams as well as subs/donations.

I don't know how much HS streamers make but the top LOL streamers are making 60-100k/yr from streaming.
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