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[pingpongsam]

If I were to nerf Warsong I'd make its effect positional much like Direwolf Alpha. Thus a Patron spawned one minion away would not get charge but minions dropped next to Warsong from the hand would.

[popsofctown]

New patch, no cards nerfed to usher in TGT as happened with GVG.

Everyone, get in here.

So basically you're trusting that you can 100% predict everything. Also, try hard.

I'm only mostly trusting that they maintain the pattern and add the nerfs in the same patch as the cards.  Regardless, we have a week of strong Grim Patron play that some speculated that we might not get to have.

I don't know what you mean by "try hard".

[popsofctown]

Adding a positional aspect to Warsong Commander makes it a pretty messy card.  "Minions with attack 3 or less that are adjacent to Warsong Commander have charge (if it's Thursday)".

The "3 attack or less" restriction is the more stupid part of that messiness though.  3 attack or less is a sometimes-accurate measure of how useful it is to give a particular minion charge.  Since you can handpick what cards you want to put in your deck, it was never a smart way to balance the card.  It was a sloppy, thinly veiled, "Whenever you summon a minion not named Molten Giant, give it charge" that removed a current combo without a regard for future design space. 

They worded it in a way that it would still work with Frothing Beserker (and Bloodsail Raider, until oops they changed their mind and quietly 'bugfixed' it) because they want the game to have fun combos as long as those fun combos are bad and weak.  Through a combination of ignorance and a lack of foresight they assumed that "3 attack or less" would work fine for guaranteeing the fun combo stays bad and weak.


The original design should have just been a 4 mana 3/5 (2/5 for safezies) with "When this minion attacks, all friendly minions gain charge".  Players always have an opportunity to remove that, so there's a safety valve.  (The spell Charge breaks this, but Charge itself is not a safe, forward compatible card in its current form.  Conceal variants would also break it but seem to be considered disallowed for Warrior).


People are pretty justified in being frustrated by Patron Warrior because it is much stronger than several other combo decks Blizzard has ban/nerfhammered, including at a minimum Molten Warrior, Bloodsail Warrior, Unleash the Young Dragonhawks, and closed beta freeze mage.  It possibly is stronger than Malygos Rogue, Miracle Rogue, Charging Alex, and Handlock with OTK package, but those are harder to say for clear and for sure.  Not banning it is clearly inconsistent with their stated and practiced philosophy, even if like me you think a lot of those old things should have been let be and Patron Warrior is also weak enough to be let be. 

[KingZog3]

If I were to nerf Warsong I'd make its effect positional much like Direwolf Alpha. Thus a Patron spawned one minion away would not get charge but minions dropped next to Warsong from the hand would.

This does nothing. I'd just put Grim Patron on the left side of Warsong and they all get charge anyway.

[popsofctown]

If I were to nerf Warsong I'd make its effect positional much like Direwolf Alpha. Thus a Patron spawned one minion away would not get charge but minions dropped next to Warsong from the hand would.

This does nothing. I'd just put Grim Patron on the left side of Warsong and they all get charge anyway.

One of the Patrons would miss out on charge when you use the Inner Rage -> Whirlwind combo.  The 5/2 Patron also becomes obligated to attack while he is 3/3, before his son becomes the one with charge.

There's other whirlwind cases and such where there is a difference.

[werothegreat]

Apparently Fel Reaver got changed from "discard the top 3 cards" to "remove the top 3 cards" of your deck.

[KingZog3]

Apparently Fel Reaver got changed from "discard the top 3 cards" to "remove the top 3 cards" of your deck.

That's good. At least it's no longer confusing why the discarding stuff won't work with Fel Reaver.

[popsofctown]

Apparently Fel Reaver got changed from "discard the top 3 cards" to "remove the top 3 cards" of your deck.

That's good. At least it's no longer confusing why the discarding stuff won't work with Fel Reaver.

I still get to be confused about why Sapping a Piloted Shredder against a 10 card hand produces a minion.

[Grujah]

Also Fel Reaver lost it's animation (cards removed are not shown).

[KingZog3]

Apparently Fel Reaver got changed from "discard the top 3 cards" to "remove the top 3 cards" of your deck.

That's good. At least it's no longer confusing why the discarding stuff won't work with Fel Reaver.

I still get to be confused about why Sapping a Piloted Shredder against a 10 card hand produces a minion.

Why are you confused? Sapping a minion into a 10card hand kills te minion. If you kill a shredder it makes a minion drop. How is that confusing?

[EgorK]

Also Fel Reaver lost it's animation (cards removed are not shown).

For me this is serious nerf. Previously in agro decks I considered Reaver effect even net positive because you are really rarely would go into fatigue, but your topdecks becomes much more predictable.

[Awaclus]

Also Fel Reaver lost it's animation (cards removed are not shown).

For me this is serious nerf. Previously in agro decks I considered Reaver effect even net positive because you are really rarely would go into fatigue, but your topdecks becomes much more predictable.

Your topdecks also became more predictable for your opponent, which made a bigger difference IMO.

[EgorK]

Also Fel Reaver lost it's animation (cards removed are not shown).

For me this is serious nerf. Previously in agro decks I considered Reaver effect even net positive because you are really rarely would go into fatigue, but your topdecks becomes much more predictable.

Your topdecks also became more predictable for your opponent, which made a bigger difference IMO.

1. My opponent much less likely to run deck tracker than I am
2. My opponent can only guess content of my deck

But your point is still valid though

[Grujah]

Also Fel Reaver lost it's animation (cards removed are not shown).

For me this is serious nerf. Previously in agro decks I considered Reaver effect even net positive because you are really rarely would go into fatigue, but your topdecks becomes much more predictable.

Your topdecks also became more predictable for your opponent, which made a bigger difference IMO.

1. My opponent much less likely to run deck tracker than I am
2. My opponent can only guess content of my deck

But your point is still valid though

In arena, perhaps.
In constructed, you really need to be playing a rogue* list for opponent to not be able to predict with very high certainty.




*And I don't mean the hero class.

[Jorbles]

The best part of not net-decking is playing cards people would see in one deck archetype until you play sayyyyy an Ogre Brute turn 3 or something and then there's a really long pause on the opponents turn when they try to figure out what the fuck they're playing against.

[popsofctown]

ETC gets you a bigger pause when your opponent googles to figure out what the other two spells he has not seen possibly are.

[Grujah]

The best part of not net-decking is playing cards people would see in one deck archetype until you play sayyyyy an Ogre Brute turn 3 or something and then there's a really long pause on the opponents turn when they try to figure out what the fuck they're playing against.

A Rogue played Ogre Brute on me and I did take a significant pause.


Figuring out whether you are playing vs Control or Patron Warrior also takes some time, cause their early game is so similar and even borrow cards from the other deck sometimes (Shield Block, for example). Biggest early sign is probably not using the second charge on Deathbite.

[Watno]

Fuck you Blizzard for not fixing having to wait for animations to resolve before you can issue orders and therefore randomly losing games.

I'm afraid they honestly think this is a better way to balance Patron Warrior than just applying a reasonable nerf.

[Grujah]

Puzzle.
TGT Cards included.

You are playing Warrior vs Warriors.
What are the only 8 cards that you cannot possible get into your hand during this game?

[EgorK]

Puzzle.
TGT Cards included.

You are playing Warrior vs Warriors.
What are the only 8 cards that you cannot possible get into your hand during this game?

You can have any collectible minion or spell, any shaman totem or dude, any token generated by creatures/spells (including Gally's coin if opp cooperate), regular coin obv even if you go first, so I am at loss what you can't have

[Drab Emordnilap]

Puzzle.
TGT Cards included.

You are playing Warrior vs Warriors.
What are the only 8 cards that you cannot possible get into your hand during this game?

You can have any collectible minion or spell, any shaman totem or dude, any token generated by creatures/spells (including Gally's coin if opp cooperate), regular coin obv even if you go first, so I am at loss what you can't have

How do you get arbitrary minions in Warrior vs Warrior? Is there some way to get Unstable Portal that I'm missing?

[Awaclus]

Is there some way to get Unstable Portal that I'm missing?

Yes (the new legendary that Inspires a random spell into your hand).

EDIT: whose name is Saraad.

[qmech]

Burrowing Mine and Ambush! ?

[Grujah]

Burrowing Mine and Ambush! ?

No, Collectible cards only.

[EgorK]

Is there some way to get Unstable Portal that I'm missing?

Yes (the new legendary that Inspires a random spell into your hand).

EDIT: whose name is Saraad.

Wow, my way was way more hard, recombubulate 3 cost minion into spellslinger, panda him and then get any spell