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[ashersky]

Sub 1k zoo:

2x Young Priestess
2x Doomguard
1x Argent Commander.

This is what I threw together in about 5 minutes.. I'm sure there are better lists.  But it's absolutely a very good deck for the format, if not too good.

Maybe this is the reason I haven't tried a zoo deck yet, I just keep pulling the wrong cards.  I have exactly zero each of Young Priestess, Doomguard, Commander.  Those seem to be kind of the core of the zoo deck.

The (apparently) prototypical zoo deck is this one.

I built a version of that with cards I own (so no dire wolves, only one priestess, no doom guards, no argent commander) and won 5 casuals in a row for the quest before losing 9 (NINE) in a row in ranked.

[Titandrake]

Went 4-3 in an arena with 3 Fireballs and 2 Polys. Turns out I didn't have enough creatures in the 4-5 cost range. Usually, we would trade evenly on turns 2 and 3. Then I start 1-for-1 killing everything else, but have no creatures to back it up and end up losing too much life for my late game creatures to win.

I got Leeroy from the pack though, which was nice.

[Jorbles]

Sub 1k zoo:

2x Young Priestess
2x Doomguard
1x Argent Commander.

This is what I threw together in about 5 minutes.. I'm sure there are better lists.  But it's absolutely a very good deck for the format, if not too good.

Maybe this is the reason I haven't tried a zoo deck yet, I just keep pulling the wrong cards.  I have exactly zero each of Young Priestess, Doomguard, Commander.  Those seem to be kind of the core of the zoo deck.

The (apparently) prototypical zoo deck is this one.

I built a version of that with cards I own (so no dire wolves, only one priestess, no doom guards, no argent commander) and won 5 casuals in a row for the quest before losing 9 (NINE) in a row in ranked.

If I were to prioritize getting those 5 cards I'd prioritize Doom Guards. They're a great finisher and beefy enough to not be killed off without some effort.

[theory]

Young Priestess can be replaced by Blood Imp.  Argent Commander is not as important as Doomguard (and you probably don't want Argent Commander in Zoo anyway). 

The key is that you want all of the cheap minions that are great at trading.  SSC, Scarlet Crusader, Harvest Golem, Defender of Argus, Dire Wolf Alpha, Knife Juggler, Flame Imp, etc.

[Jorbles]

Young Priestess can be replaced by Blood Imp.  Argent Commander is not as important as Doomguard (and you probably don't want Argent Commander in Zoo anyway). 

The key is that you want all of the cheap minions that are great at trading.  SSC, Scarlet Crusader, Harvest Golem, Defender of Argus, Dire Wolf Alpha, Knife Juggler, Flame Imp, etc.

I was assuming the Priestesses were to be used in addition to Blood Imps, but yeah, cheap minions that are good at trading are Zoo's bread and butter.

Some 1s to consider that aren't mentioned by theory are Abusive Sergeant, Argent Squire, and Worgen Infiltrator. They all trade pretty well. Leper Gnomes usually get pinged out, but their direct damage is good in a beatdown, too.

[popsofctown]

Blood Imp isn't a Young Priestess at all....

Argent Commander is very disposable, though.

[nkirbit]

I like Argent Commander in zoo, although it's certainly not a necessity if you don't have them.

The one thing I don't like about a lot of zoo lists I've seen is that a lot of decks player 2 each of Scarlet Crusader, Harvest Golem, and Shattered Sun Cleric.  Every game I've played with all 6 in my deck I feel like I just draw too many 3 drops.  I chose to cut Harvest Golem, but I'm not sure that's correct.. all 3 seemed pretty close in power level. 

[nkirbit]

@nkbirit - I would fit in 1/1 divine shielders and Leper Gnomes if possible

Yeah, Argent Squires are definitely a consideration.  They are commons though, so I would have to cut other commons to fit them in.. or perhaps cut the Argent Commander to make room for them and one other common.

I actually don't like Leper Gnome in zoo.  It too often dies without leaving any impact on the board, and board control is how you win as zoo.

[Grujah]

@nkbirit - I would fit in 1/1 divine shielders and Leper Gnomes if possible

Yeah, Argent Squires are definitely a consideration.  They are commons though, so I would have to cut other commons to fit them in.. or perhaps cut the Argent Commander to make room for them and one other common.

I actually don't like Leper Gnome in zoo.  It too often dies without leaving any impact on the board, and board control is how you win as zoo.

Yeah, they trade wirh 3/2 but when I checked my lsit, I don't play them either.

From Kirian's list I don't play Argent Commanders/Scarlet Crusaders/Mortal Coil, instead I play Abusive Sargeant/Dark Iron Dwarf and Amani Berserkers.

[blueblimp]

Young Priestess can be replaced by Blood Imp.  Argent Commander is not as important as Doomguard (and you probably don't want Argent Commander in Zoo anyway). 

The key is that you want all of the cheap minions that are great at trading.  SSC, Scarlet Crusader, Harvest Golem, Defender of Argus, Dire Wolf Alpha, Knife Juggler, Flame Imp, etc.

I don't like Blood Imp at all, because it's bad at trading and doesn't threaten any face damage. When playing against it, I feel like it just sits there, not doing a whole lot, until eventually it gets area cleared. Something like Abusive Sergeant seems better to me.

[HiveMindEmulator]

Young Priestess can be replaced by Blood Imp.  Argent Commander is not as important as Doomguard (and you probably don't want Argent Commander in Zoo anyway). 

The key is that you want all of the cheap minions that are great at trading.  SSC, Scarlet Crusader, Harvest Golem, Defender of Argus, Dire Wolf Alpha, Knife Juggler, Flame Imp, etc.

I don't like Blood Imp at all, because it's bad at trading and doesn't threaten any face damage. When playing against it, I feel like it just sits there, not doing a whole lot, until eventually it gets area cleared. Something like Abusive Sergeant seems better to me.

Yeah, the idea that Blood Imp is like Young Priestess is wrong. The thing that makes YP good is that it gives you 4 stats for 1 mana on the turn you play it, which is a lot. Then, if you have board control, it keeps giving more stats. Blood Imp only gives the "extra" stats: 1 per turn from the turn you play it, which is really slow. It doesn't really have a place in a tempo deck.

[theory]

Good points.  I retract my other statement.  OTOH I don't use either -- I've been trying out Elven Archers and they work quite well in some situations.

[Jorbles]

Young Priestess can be replaced by Blood Imp.  Argent Commander is not as important as Doomguard (and you probably don't want Argent Commander in Zoo anyway). 

The key is that you want all of the cheap minions that are great at trading.  SSC, Scarlet Crusader, Harvest Golem, Defender of Argus, Dire Wolf Alpha, Knife Juggler, Flame Imp, etc.

I don't like Blood Imp at all, because it's bad at trading and doesn't threaten any face damage. When playing against it, I feel like it just sits there, not doing a whole lot, until eventually it gets area cleared. Something like Abusive Sergeant seems better to me.

I actually still like to play Blood Imp in my Zoolockish deck. I like it around as it will always allow you a target for the +4/+4 death spell and that one that can either do 2 damage or buff a demon. I almost always want to play it with something though, a lonely Blood Imp is useless. It doesn't give as many stats as a Priestess, but it can't be pinged out after a single turn, which I find happens with my Priestesses often (though I still play them).

[Grujah]

Priestess giving out 1 hp and eating a firebolt/shapeshift/wicked blade is fine.

I see not much need for +4/+4 kill a minion, but some people do. You are not the "finish the game in 4 turns or die" deck, you are "persistent(ly annoying) board presence" deck.
Dark Iron Dwarf works better than Argent Commander in Zoo, I think. He has more or less similarly robust body, and only "2 haste damage" compared to 4, but is a lot cheaper.

One standard zoo card that nobody mentioned is Blood Knight (guy that steals divine shields for +3/+3). It's actually a meta call, if you see a lot of 1/1 Diviners for 1 and 3/1 diviners for 3, it is a right call to play that guy.

[theory]

I mostly don't like Argent Commander because it's just another card not to draw with your Doomguard. 

[Jorbles]

So on a tangent from the current discussion I just finished a 4 win Arena run and in the pack I found Cairne Bloodhoof!

This is my first neutral Legendary and I'm really pleased it's this one, any suggestions on what sort of deck he fits best into?

[Drab Emordnilap]

So on a tangent from the current discussion I just finished a 4 win Arena run and in the pack I found Cairne Bloodhoof!

This is my first neutral Legendary and I'm really pleased it's this one, any suggestions on what sort of deck he fits best into?

Any deck where 6 mana isn't your top end. He's not a finisher, he's super value man. He's like a legendary Harvest Golem.

[Kirian]

Woohoo, yet another 0-3 Rogue arena:  http://arenamastery.com/sPIz

[Twistedarcher]

That deck doesn't look bad at all.

[blueblimp]

Woohoo, yet another 0-3 Rogue arena:  http://arenamastery.com/sPIz

#9 I'd just keep taking Eviscerates. Sure you have 3 by that point, but is there really such a thing as too many Eviscerates? Tiger is a good card though.
#16 I might take the panda here even though you already have one, since fan is kinda meh in arena. But either is okay.

This is a pretty amazing deck, kinda surprised it didn't do well, although I often misjudge deck strength. The only class card weakness I see is no backstabs, but that should be no problem given 2x deadly poison and a billion eviscerates. Almost all the neutrals are great.

[HiveMindEmulator]

Woohoo, yet another 0-3 Rogue arena:  http://arenamastery.com/sPIz

9 should be Eviscerate.
16 should be Bloodsail Raider. Bloodsail Raider is the best 2-drop besides Ringleader for Rogue. At turn 2 it trades with other 2-drops, and later on it's a 2 mana 3/3 or better.
21 I like Sap. Shiv is a kind of meh card. Sap is giving up card advantage, but it's a big tempo card. Arena Rogue should always play tempo.

The deck doesn't look bad outside of the shortage of 3/2s. But doing well in arena is a little harder than just picking all the "good" cards. You have to understand your deck so you can play it properly. Usually Rogue tries to take board control early using Backstab/Deadly Poison/hero power/Ringleader, etc, get to a good position where you can start going face, and then just going for it. The reasoning is that Rogue has really good early-game cards and the best eary-game hero power by a mile. But late game becomes a problem if you run low of health to use your weapons and hand size from using your low-cost spells (if you combo an Eviscerate, you are necessarily using 2 cards that turn, and decreasing your hand size).

In this deck, your 2's a are a little weak (Swordsmith is too small for a 2-drop -- you really could have used that other Raider), so you're going to have to "waste" some Eviscerates for 2 damage. But that's fine. You are really stong at the 4 mana spot. If you can keep the board clear with your Eviscerates and weapons early on, you can keep hitting face with the Yetis/Panda, and get your opponent in the danger zone in no time. The last few of the Assassin's Blade charges should go face, and the Tiger is a finisher (along with the leftover Eviscerates). Sap would have helped here too. Unfortunately, there are no game logs, so we can't critique your play, but I would suggest watching some streams of good players playing Rogue in arena, noticing where they're doing something different from what you would have done, and trying to understand their thinking, so you can start thinking that way too.

[Kirian]

That deck doesn't look bad at all.

Plenty of decks don't look bad until you fail to draw the good cards.

[Kirian]

Woohoo, yet another 0-3 Rogue arena:  http://arenamastery.com/sPIz

9 should be Eviscerate.

Five Eviscerates??  Note that over the course of three games, I saw a total of four Evis.

Usually Rogue tries to take board control early using Backstab/Deadly Poison/hero power/Ringleader, etc

Yeah, it would have been great to have been offered Backstab or Ringleader.

In this deck, your 2's a are a little weak (Swordsmith is too small for a 2-drop

And yet both of them were better than either of the other options offered.

The last few of the Assassin's Blade charges should go face

...if I ever drew it.

A lot of what lost these for me, I think, were just a ton of taunts and shields from my opponents, the first two were Paladins.

but I would suggest watching some streams of good players playing Rogue in arena, noticing where they're doing something different from what you would have done, and trying to understand their thinking, so you can start thinking that way too.

So here's the thing, though... I can either spend time playing the game, or spend time watching streams.  I don't have the time for both.  More and more I'm thinking I should just hang it up altogether.

[HiveMindEmulator]

Five Eviscerates??  Note that over the course of three games, I saw a total of four Evis.

Yeah. You really can't ever have too many Eviscerates. Maybe 20 is the limit... They trade evenly with 2-drops, combo for bigger stuff, and can be burn.

Usually Rogue tries to take board control early using Backstab/Deadly Poison/hero power/Ringleader, etc

Yeah, it would have been great to have been offered Backstab or Ringleader. If you have more than 5 total Backstab+Eviscerate+Poison, you should be good for the early game. You don't necessarily need all of them. It's not a constructed deck.

In this deck, your 2's a are a little weak (Swordsmith is too small for a 2-drop

I'm not saying you shouldn't have picked them. I'm just saying that if you're trying to count your mana curve, you really don't want to count these as 2-drop minions. You're still actually fine, since you have 3 good 2-drops, a 2/2 and a bunch of Eviscerates. Usually I want to have at least 2 3/2, at least 4 combined 3/2s and 2/3s, and at least 6 things you can play on turn 2, including removal and 2/2s. You're a little short on the second critereon, and that's the only weakness I can see in the deck.

The last few of the Assassin's Blade charges should go face

I don't know what happened in your games so I'm just making general comments about how to play Rogue.

A lot of what lost these for me, I think, were just a ton of taunts and shields from my opponents, the first two were Paladins.

Paladin should be an easy matchup for Rogue. You should usually be able to make his hero power completely worthless because you trade 1 hero power for 2 of his. And if you get board control early with your good low mana cards and hero power, he shouldn't get many good opportunities to use his buff cards.

So here's the thing, though... I can either spend time playing the game, or spend time watching streams.  I don't have the time for both.  More and more I'm thinking I should just hang it up altogether.

There's obviously a tradeoff here, but I think it's possible to increase one's enjoyment of a game by watching it a little instead of playing it. Anyway, I thought you wanted comments on why you did poorly, and my suspicion is that it's your play, since the draft is fine. But since there's no logs, I can't make any specific comments. You don't need to watch tons of streams. Really if you just watch like a half dozen games, you might get a better for feel for what kind of thought-process better players are using. The mistakes you make might not be obvious to you since you have no comparison for what you should be doing. Just getting a little bit of perspective can be useful.

[blueblimp]

Agreed about the streams. They helped me a lot, because they show the mentality you need to do well in arena. Possibly the most common mistake I see in arena is going to face too much. When in doubt, trade. Otherwise you open the possibility for your opponent to make a better trade using what they have in hand. (Occasionally, opponents even leave a good trade for me that they can see, which is just crazy.)

Sometimes to-face wins games, but it seems to work best against bad drafts that didn't get the tools to exploit the opportunities presented. When my deck is good, I love when my opponent allows me to choose plays in exchange for a few life points.