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[popsofctown]

My gut reaction is that there would be an increase in variance from the prohibition on picking a third copy of a card.  But on second thoughts, you could avoid picking up a second copy of a card to make that less likely to happen.  And since that changes the Truesilver algorithm from "click truesilver champion" to something more complex and skill intensive it might increase the skill ratio rather than harm it.


And it is a DAMN shame, Obi Wan.  I scream my head off about it constantly to like everyone I meet, but statistical data shows that constructed Magic the Gathering is -far- more luck intensive/skill unintensive than draft/sealed MtG, even though there is widespread perception that things are the other way around.  It's actually the steep learning curve in deckbuilding formats that players mistake for luck (often in close concert with self serving bias... someone remember the fancy term? But anyway, a weak player will copy a netdeck and go to a constructed magic tournament and win 40% of his games.  Then he will try a deckbuilding format and win 20% of his games.  The more comfortable explanation is that it was luck.)

I doubt Blizzard shares this misconception, but the way they set things up, Arena is not set up as a great monetization strategy like constructed is, so they have no motivation to improve Arena.

[blueblimp]

I'm surprised anyone would think that constructed takes more skill _once you have the deck_. I would assume that building a deck plus playing it is going to take more skill than just playing on its own, even if the deck you're playing is not as sophisticated as a constructed deck. (That said, given the simplicity of arena's draft mechanism, it's arguable how much opportunity for skill there even is there.)

[popsofctown]

Right, the overly straightforward pick one of three methodology is part of Blizz not taking it seriously.  It holds it back from it's potential to be a much more satisfying format than constructed.

[Lekkit]

In the end I think the limited vs constructed skill requirement is not entirely true. What it really boils down to is, like blueimp implied, that building a deck and playing it requires more skill than just playing a deck. But as someone who plays a game with almost no netdecking possibilities, I can say that constructed can be just as skill intensive, just because you have to make your own deck. Once you have the deck and just need to make small tweaks here and there to adjust it to the local metagame, there's a different kind of skill involved. But on the other hand, you don't have to construct a whole new deck.

[popsofctown]

In the end I think the limited vs constructed skill requirement is not entirely true. What it really boils down to is, like blueimp implied, that building a deck and playing it requires more skill than just playing a deck. But as someone who plays a game with almost no netdecking possibilities, I can say that constructed can be just as skill intensive, just because you have to make your own deck. Once you have the deck and just need to make small tweaks here and there to adjust it to the local metagame, there's a different kind of skill involved. But on the other hand, you don't have to construct a whole new deck.

You start this post like you disagree with me, but I don't think you do?

[Lekkit]

I think that most people that say that limited requires more skill than constructed fail to take the deckbuilding part of constructed into consideration. In most popular games, most notably MTG (which was the card game being talked about here), there are decks to netdeck, which takes away some of the elements of deckbuilding.

My point is that most people think that constructed is just exectution of a deck that's allready built. And this is what I don't agree with. Entirely.

[KingZog3]

Right, the overly straightforward pick one of three methodology is part of Blizz not taking it seriously.  It holds it back from it's potential to be a much more satisfying format than constructed.

What should it be then?

[Titandrake]

Right, the overly straightforward pick one of three methodology is part of Blizz not taking it seriously.  It holds it back from it's potential to be a much more satisfying format than constructed.

What should it be then?

Lack of sideboarding and being forced to play every card you pick makes arena feel kind of homogenous at times. It makes it much riskier to go for combos, because if you don't get the other part of the combo then your deck suffers for it.

I remember one person (I think it was an MtG pro) who suggested changing it to picking 45 cards, then building 30 cards out of those 45. Even without sideboarding, it's probably a more interesting format.

[Davio]

How different are these kinds of games from rock-paper-scissors really?

[EgorK]

My id is EgorK#2917 on EU

[HiveMindEmulator]

You start this post like you disagree with me, but I don't think you do?

You end this post with a question mark, but I don't think you're asking a question?

[popsofctown]

I think that most people that say that limited requires more skill than constructed fail to take the deckbuilding part of constructed into consideration. In most popular games, most notably MTG (which was the card game being talked about here), there are decks to netdeck, which takes away some of the elements of deckbuilding.

My point is that most people think that constructed is just exectution of a deck that's allready built. And this is what I don't agree with. Entirely.

I don't think constructed is just execution of a deck that's already built.  But as you say, at the highest levels it's usually a tuning of a deck that's already built + playing that deck well, where limited is building a deck from scratch + playing that deck well. 

[Twistedarcher]

Setting aside deck building / drafting, do you think there is more skill in playing an arena deck or a constructed deck?

[popsofctown]

Setting aside deck building / drafting, do you think there is more skill in playing an arena deck or a constructed deck?

I wouldn't make a confident assertion either way.  I would guess constructed

[Davio]

Where is the strategy in this game? Is it the deckbuilding, the playing?

I don't really understand these kinds of games. Dominion is easy, the strategy is just in choosing the right cards and a little bit in playing them.

[Obi Wan Bonogi]

Right, the overly straightforward pick one of three methodology is part of Blizz not taking it seriously.  It holds it back from it's potential to be a much more satisfying format than constructed.

What should it be then?

Lack of sideboarding and being forced to play every card you pick makes arena feel kind of homogenous at times. It makes it much riskier to go for combos, because if you don't get the other part of the combo then your deck suffers for it.

I remember one person (I think it was an MtG pro) who suggested changing it to picking 45 cards, then building 30 cards out of those 45. Even without sideboarding, it's probably a more interesting format.

Id say 45 way too many but Id love to draft like 33 or 35 cards and cut out a handful.

[Grujah]

Question for those who have played Magic too: which kinds of cards in Hearthstone haven't been (or couldn't have been) done in Magic? For example, if I didn't know better, I would have thought cards that summon auxiliary minions, like Violet Teacher, would be impractical in a physical game. But of course, Magic has those. Same goes for minions that stack self-buffs, like Scavenging Hyena (e.g. Primordial Hydra), and copying minions, Faceless Manipulator (e.g. Clone).

My current guesses about cards that Magic couldn't do practically are:

• Cards that do random selection among minions or characters, like Mad Bomber, seem impractical in a physical game. I guess you could represent each minion/character with a card, shuffle that, and select that way.
• Cards that can chain complex buffs on minions, like Crazed Alchemist, seem annoying to track physically.
• Any healing ability seems inapplicable to Magic, which doesn't persist damage across turns (right?).

1 - Actually, it has this guy:
Goblin Test Pilot.
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Goblin+Test+Pilot

He taps to do 2 damage to random target (player or creature).
You usually count number of available targets, assign a number to each and roll a die.

2 - There actually are a few card that switches Power and Toughness of creatures. It is only that effect similar to that one almost always last till the end of the turn. Like this guy, for example:
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=106668&type=card

Game has to use some sort of counters to represent permanent change, and while the most usual counters are +1/+1 and -1/-1, as pops sad, we also had weird things like -1/-2 and so.

3 - as somebody said, Wither (and later Infect) is closes to "healing" as that was a kind of damage that carried across the turns, and could be removed as well. (Creatures with Wither or Infect deal damage in form of -1/-1 counters).
Other form of "healing" is damage pervention. (cards that say "prevent next X damage done to target creature").
Edit: well, I guess, also regeneration

[Grujah]

Would anyone be interested in a Hearthstone tournament/league? If there's interest, I'd be willing to set it up.

I'd play but unfortunately I'm on EU server, while most of you are on US ones.

[KingZog3]

Would anyone be interested in a Hearthstone tournament/league? If there's interest, I'd be willing to set it up.

I'd play but unfortunately I'm on EU server, while most of you are on US ones.

You can still play against your friends. And I'm sure you change what server you connect to.

[shraeye]

anyone wanna play sometime soonish?  I have a pretty basic priest deck that I've been laddering with (mostly all free cards, but a few class-specific commons/rares that I've opened)

[Kirian]

Would anyone be interested in a Hearthstone tournament/league? If there's interest, I'd be willing to set it up.

I'd play but unfortunately I'm on EU server, while most of you are on US ones.

You can still play against your friends. And I'm sure you change what server you connect to.

IIRC, if you connect to a different server, you will have a nice blank slate of cards.

[KingZog3]

anyone wanna play sometime soonish?  I have a pretty basic priest deck that I've been laddering with (mostly all free cards, but a few class-specific commons/rares that I've opened)

I'd be interested. I have a terrible Druid deck and my Rogue isn't great. My Paladin is also in a similar stage to what your Priest deck sounds like. Maybe I can play after my dominion league match.

[Kirian]

Did I just encounter a bug?  Can't find it on their forums...

Warrior I'm up against plays Commanding Shout (his minions can't drop below one health), then Frothing Berserker.  Then he hits one of my minions with one of his that would have died, but didn't... and yet the Frothing picked it up as a Berserk?

Never mind, I can't read

[KingZog3]

Did I just encounter a bug?  Can't find it on their forums...

Warrior I'm up against plays Commanding Shout (his minions can't drop below one health), then Frothing Berserker.  Then he hits one of my minions with one of his that would have died, but didn't... and yet the Frothing picked it up as a Berserk?

Frothing is whenever a minion takes damage, not when it dies unlike Cult Master, which draws on minion death.

[Lekkit]

I'd be interested in a tournament as well. But I'm also on the EU server.