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Kirian

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GokoDom II: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« on: August 19, 2013, 11:26:34 am »
0

Please also post your match results here, as well as commentary and discussion.
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Geronimoo

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2013, 05:27:45 pm »
+2

Second round and I already have to face a very strong opponent: DG. First game features IGG and Cultist. DG opens Cultist/- and I go for Nomad Camp/IGG and just start hammering the IGG's in the next turns while DG gets a second Cultist. His draws seem quite poor (at least 2 dead turns) and I seem to win easily despite him spiking a Province.

Second game features the interesting choice of Bishop/Hunting Party stack or Taxman/Hunting Party. Since it's a Colony game I figure Taxman should be nice, but I missed that it was also a Shelters game so those would hurt my HP stacking ability. DG goes for a simple Rogue/HP strategy and it pays off (maybe the singleton Counterfeit won him the game?)

Game three is where things get really interesting. A board full of power cards: Rebuild, Witch, King's Court, Jack and City. Since it's a Shelters game Rebuild is going to be slightly worse than Witch. We both open Jack/Silver, but DG goes straight for Rebuilds (despite having no Victory cards in his deck). He gets a KC somewhere and somehow connects it with the Rebuild for an awesome turn. He's not the only one to get lucky because I get to connect my KC with Witch. I squeak out the win thanks to Witch dealing out the last Curse + Estate for a 3 pile ending.

Game four is probably the most boring of all as we both go for double Witch. He gets a lot of $5 hands which is bad on this board because you need to buy Silver. I get a few $6s and the better economy gives me an easy win (there were also Goons, but they didn't affect the game that much).
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Re: GokoDom II: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2013, 07:32:12 pm »
0

/tag
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Re: GokoDom II: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2013, 12:13:46 am »
+1

Having lost the first round to a skilled but less highly ranked opponent, I found myself really craving the win here (I do so, so poorly in tournaments).

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130819/log.5085f5130cf270038ff92212.1376961194057.txt
A clear Big Money board, but which terminals to get? I use my Baker token on a Haggler/Hermit opening. The Hermit doesn't feel so important to me, but I know I can crunch up those Shelters and Silver gaining will be nice. The Haggler I do believe is the clear choice at $5, but my opponent prefers to pair his Hermit with Merchant Ship. I just don't have much love for Merchant Ship, personally. In any event, Haggler serves me extremely well here; I can gain Bakers off Golds, Golds off Provinces, and take a late-game Apprentice gain to really close things out, but I don't need it. An easy win.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130819/log.5085f5130cf270038ff92212.1376962440020.txt
Smithy, Ironmonger, Village, Pawn and Stonemason lend themselves strongly to engine building here. However, SM is the only trashing, and worse, there's just nothing for the engine to do here, other than draw your whole deck. It's like a just Base engine, if you know what I mean. Anyway, we both make liberal use of SM's overpay aspect, which is really nice here, and SM is actually nice for Copper trashing (well, it's not ideal, but it's better than nothing). Light Copper trashing really helps the Ironmongers here. Anyway, my opponent simply gets too fancy. He's definitely still in the game, although he SMs a Smithy into 2 Villages, and then does this again--a questionable move, I think, given that villages are more plentiful than draw here. But then he loads up on Treasure Maps??? Later he tells me he wanted to SM lots of Golds into Duchy/Duke. It's a neat idea, and I commend him for it, but he was probably going to have three pile problems at that point, even if he could pull it off. As it is, he just draws horribly, and can't line things up. Safely ahead, I can win off SM trashing and overpay gains. That really is a neat card for closing out games, by the way.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130819/log.5085f5130cf270038ff92212.1376963917665.txt
My opponent opens 5/2 with Cultist. That's never something I want to see! I'm Silver/Silver all day here--just need the Cultists. I actually buy a Throne Room off my $4 hand right before the second reshuffle. I only have the one Cultist, so I know this is a *bad* purchase, but I figure if I get lucky and collide them, it will negate his advantage, and if I don't oh well, just would have been a Silver. So I like that call, even though they didn't collide. Still, some fortunate Cultist chaining means we split the Ruins. What goes wrong for him after that? He just never hits $5 for some reason, and I hit it over and over again, loading up on Level 2 Cities. He seems more committed to trashing than I am (even though we have an equal number of Trade Routes, he seems to get to them faster with more Wishing Wells and Thrones). But... Cities, man. He has no third pile, and I have a Province anyway, so I can safely buy them out, and then his trashing advantage is actually a hindrance, because we're both drawing our whole decks, but mine has money in it and his doesn't.

Thanks for the games! My opponent must have been frustrated with his shuffle luck in Games 2 and 3. It was brutal.
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Robz888

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2013, 12:55:15 am »
0

Having lost the first round to a skilled but less highly ranked opponent, I found myself really craving the win here (I do so, so poorly in tournaments).

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130819/log.5085f5130cf270038ff92212.1376961194057.txt
A clear Big Money board, but which terminals to get? I use my Baker token on a Haggler/Hermit opening. The Hermit doesn't feel so important to me, but I know I can crunch up those Shelters and Silver gaining will be nice. The Haggler I do believe is the clear choice at $5, but my opponent prefers to pair his Hermit with Merchant Ship. I just don't have much love for Merchant Ship, personally. In any event, Haggler serves me extremely well here; I can gain Bakers off Golds, Golds off Provinces, and take a late-game Apprentice gain to really close things out, but I don't need it. An easy win.

You know, I got 5 Provinces in 12 turns here. Pretty good for non-draw Big Money.
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AdamH

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2013, 08:30:42 am »
+2

Having lost the first round to a skilled but less highly ranked opponent, I found myself really craving the win here (I do so, so poorly in tournaments).

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130819/log.5085f5130cf270038ff92212.1376961194057.txt
A clear Big Money board, but which terminals to get? I use my Baker token on a Haggler/Hermit opening. The Hermit doesn't feel so important to me, but I know I can crunch up those Shelters and Silver gaining will be nice. The Haggler I do believe is the clear choice at $5, but my opponent prefers to pair his Hermit with Merchant Ship. I just don't have much love for Merchant Ship, personally. In any event, Haggler serves me extremely well here; I can gain Bakers off Golds, Golds off Provinces, and take a late-game Apprentice gain to really close things out, but I don't need it. An easy win.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130819/log.5085f5130cf270038ff92212.1376962440020.txt
Smithy, Ironmonger, Village, Pawn and Stonemason lend themselves strongly to engine building here. However, SM is the only trashing, and worse, there's just nothing for the engine to do here, other than draw your whole deck. It's like a just Base engine, if you know what I mean. Anyway, we both make liberal use of SM's overpay aspect, which is really nice here, and SM is actually nice for Copper trashing (well, it's not ideal, but it's better than nothing). Light Copper trashing really helps the Ironmongers here. Anyway, my opponent simply gets too fancy. He's definitely still in the game, although he SMs a Smithy into 2 Villages, and then does this again--a questionable move, I think, given that villages are more plentiful than draw here. But then he loads up on Treasure Maps??? Later he tells me he wanted to SM lots of Golds into Duchy/Duke. It's a neat idea, and I commend him for it, but he was probably going to have three pile problems at that point, even if he could pull it off. As it is, he just draws horribly, and can't line things up. Safely ahead, I can win off SM trashing and overpay gains. That really is a neat card for closing out games, by the way.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130819/log.5085f5130cf270038ff92212.1376963917665.txt
My opponent opens 5/2 with Cultist. That's never something I want to see! I'm Silver/Silver all day here--just need the Cultists. I actually buy a Throne Room off my $4 hand right before the second reshuffle. I only have the one Cultist, so I know this is a *bad* purchase, but I figure if I get lucky and collide them, it will negate his advantage, and if I don't oh well, just would have been a Silver. So I like that call, even though they didn't collide. Still, some fortunate Cultist chaining means we split the Ruins. What goes wrong for him after that? He just never hits $5 for some reason, and I hit it over and over again, loading up on Level 2 Cities. He seems more committed to trashing than I am (even though we have an equal number of Trade Routes, he seems to get to them faster with more Wishing Wells and Thrones). But... Cities, man. He has no third pile, and I have a Province anyway, so I can safely buy them out, and then his trashing advantage is actually a hindrance, because we're both drawing our whole decks, but mine has money in it and his doesn't.

Videos are uploading now. I'll post with links and write-ups in a bit. I've slept on it but I still haven't fully digested all of what happened here.

Game 1: I thought that Haggler and Hermit would both gain things and I wanted something to complement my Hermit-gaining. After seeing it play out, Haggler was clearly superior because of the presence of Baker.

Game 2: I didn't mind the Stonemason-trashes early in the game, I thought they were the best I could have done with a bad draw. Perhaps I should have gotten one or two Oracles instead of Villages, though. I think my main mistake this game could have been just letting piles get so low. I played for a much longer game and I would have been able to do some really cool stuff, but I let piles get so low so early and I just didn't have time.

EDIT: Bad draws in game 2 == poor shuffle management.

I think Stonemason+Treasure Map+Duke could have been huge, so I'll disagree that there was nothing "cool to do" once you've drawn your deck.

Game 3: My first Trade Route "Shoulda been a Silver"™, but I think other than that I played well. OK maybe my wishing was silly, but I think the game was lost before that really mattered.

Thanks for the games! My opponent must have been frustrated with his shuffle luck in Games 2 and 3. It was brutal.

Robz, you played better than me, which is the object of the game, which is why you won. "Bad shuffle luck" is a result of poor play, and you built your decks better in both games. I'm frustrated that I didn't play better. I'm just trying to come up with something productive I can take from these two rounds and all I can get is "Wharf is a swingy card." I need to do some serious thinking about my play style, I think.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2013, 09:50:24 am by AdamH »
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nopawnsintended

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2013, 09:36:49 am »
0

My first Trade Route "Shoulda been a Silver"™

+1 for this in lieu of "/tag"
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Re: GokoDom II: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2013, 09:45:28 am »
+1

I'm undefeated against "bye" this round.
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Re: GokoDom II: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2013, 10:48:07 am »
0

watching the watcher.
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kn1tt3r

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2013, 02:48:25 pm »
+1

kn1tt3r vs. Revered Peasant - 3.5:0.5

Videos are uploading.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130820/log.505c84d751c3249282789115.1377020790204.txt
Grand Market with Count trashing. I go a bit more for chaining (Bazaar), he a bit more for money (Gold). In the end I think I have a better deck, but he manages to squeeze out a tie.
Video:

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130820/log.505c84d751c3249282789115.1377020867117.txt
Very aggressive board with Mountebank and Knights as the key cards. I get more lucky with the Knights, go a bit more for money than he does (i.e. no Highways), and can win by 3-piling.
Video:

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130820/log.505c84d751c3249282789115.1377022283636.txt
He plays something around Baron/Money with 2-3 more actions scattered in at some point. I go for the Rabble engine, which should be far superior here. We both made mistakes here (mostly around missed or misplayed Farmland plays), but in the end it works out for me.
Video:

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130820/log.505c84d751c3249282789115.1377023209230.txt
Minions with quite some support. I win the split, have a much better deck, and he ultimately resigns.
Video:
« Last Edit: August 21, 2013, 08:19:56 am by kn1tt3r »
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RTT

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2013, 05:05:17 pm »
0

RTT vs. 2.71828....  3-0
1.Game Video
http://youtu.be/kBXZDS9pAmY
2.Game Video
http://youtu.be/nJAT0j7wysI
3.Game Video
http://youtu.be/qH_P3KwnSQw
« Last Edit: August 20, 2013, 05:13:38 pm by RTT »
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Re: GokoDom II: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2013, 05:31:01 pm »
+2

WanderingWinder 3 - 1 scott pilgrim

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130819/log.514b5511e4b0b79c883b5e3b.1376969406760.txt
Band of Misfits. I use it as Steward early, then mostly throne room and monument, with a touch of herald and an accidental advisor (somehow I got it confused with herald for a second?). I trash down a good bit faster and further than sp, get a couple fewer nobles (but still some), and basically sit and pile up gobs of points, and provinces here and there, but with no particular haste. This one wasn't close, and I'm not sure if he could have trashed further (probably I think so to an extent) or just drew too badly (probably at least a component).

Quote
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130819/log.514b5511e4b0b79c883b5e3b.1376969816011.txt
Rebuild, the annoyance of so many, myself included. I go for multiple feast for heavy rebuilds. And I pick up estate number four, which should be getting me in good shape, I think, but I draw it with the next rebuild, giving me problems. Meanwhile, my opponent just went rebuild+schemes (more or less), which may very well be a little better anyway. I get a scheme at some point but never have the chance to use it. And then I must mention that I make a terrible mistake (as though I lost my mind) in naming estate rather than province fairly late in the game - islands and fairgrounds were present and I *had* an island I'd just bought. This basically slammed the door on me, but I think I was already well behind.

Quote
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130819/log.514b5511e4b0b79c883b5e3b.1376970719445.txt

This one was weird. I go for urchin/mercenary and get it reasonably fast but not amazingly so - and it's a bit wonky, and I never get as trashed as I'd expected. I also go university, primarily for mass mystic (I eventually get 9). But it takes me forever to get going. Fortunately for me, sp gets LOTS of urchins and cannot get them to collide for a very long time. I think this was probably a bit of overkill, but I'm not 100% on that, and it was certainly unlucky. So I come out with a lead anyway, and I am just flirting with the edge of striking distance for a long time as the game fizzles.

Quote
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130819/log.514b5511e4b0b79c883b5e3b.1376971290972.txt
So, he goes for rats and bishop. I go for basically money with a tribute, cellar, and a few pillages sprinkled in. Eventually a bishop of my own. I didn't think this rats/bishop thing was very good, and I frankly still don't, but it's a lot better than I had reckoned, and the board was very very weak, so it's not like there was big opportunity cost for it. He gets a couple provinces along with everything, and I am barely able to steal a 1-point victory on first-turn advantage before I get totally locked out.

michaeljb

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #15 on: August 21, 2013, 01:25:26 am »
+2

microman 3 - 3 michaeljb

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130819/log.505c85050cf27cdcceaba6ca.1376969418938.txt
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130819/log.505c85050cf27cdcceaba6ca.1376970256642.txt
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130819/log.505c85050cf27cdcceaba6ca.1376970788650.txt
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130819/log.505c85050cf27cdcceaba6ca.1376971632888.txt
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130819/log.505c85050cf27cdcceaba6ca.1376972666474.txt
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130819/log.505c85050cf27cdcceaba6ca.1376973851109.txt

After losing game 5, I managed to secure the match tie by Junk Dealing a Province on my final turn in game 6.

I'll try to add more comments tomorrow, right now time for bed.

Thanks for the good games microman, it was fun to have a Curse vs Province game (forum avatar).

Game 1
microman got 5/2 with Witch on the board, and I didn't get a 2nd Witch at my first chance for whatever reason. I passed on Forge, figuring it wouldn't be that useful, but microman did play it for a Province twice.

Game 2
The shuffling pretty much gave me this game. It was my turn for a 5/2, this time on a Hunting Party/Goons/Peddler/Colony board. Purchases on my first 5 turns were: Cellar/Hunting Party/Silver/Goons/Hunting Party. Goons was the only +buy, and there were no villages, so I wasn't going to be able to run out 3 piles terribly quickly, and microman resigned after I picked up my first Colony.

Game 3
microman got Dame Molly on turn 1, and held on to her till the end. I lost Sir Michael the first time I played him. A couple times I trashed 2 Coppers with Steward when I could have afforded Gold with +2 coins instead; thinning my deck as much as I did I think left me more vulnerable to the Knight attacks, and after my last Gold was gone I didn't hit 6 again for Gold or Hunting Grounds, giving microman time to catch up and take the game.

Game 4
I sure love Butcher when there's a good $2, so I can remodel my Estates into something useful and hang on to the Coin tokens. I also figured Ruins-->Copper would be ok, but that only happened once. The 2 coin tokens per player was huge, though. I never used more than 2 on a turn, only ever used 1 as part of the Butcher action (Marauder --> Duchy), and they were a huge part of getting me to 5 Provinces.

Game 5
Another Goons-but-no-village board, and I foolishly thought Altar would help me get a Lab advantage. I think I would have been better off by just buying another Lab, or a Gold, or just a second Goons. Not much else going on here, and I bought the last Province for the loss just to end it.

Game 6
Junk Dealers, Storeroom, a Butcher hoping to expand Junk Dealers, and I opened with Great Hall to dump the Hovel early (probably a stronger move on a real engine board?). I completely ignored Hermits, while microman did end up playing 2 Madmans, and held on to his Necropolis, pulling off a couple nice-looking Menagerie-engine type turns. I used Butcher once to trash a Province from the supply, then on my next turn had 1 coin token remaining, with Junk Dealer, 2 Silvers, and 2 Coppers in hand, and had 0 cards left in my draw pile. Fortunately I was in the lead at that point, so no matter what I drew I could Junk Deal it away and use the last coin token to hit $8 for the win, and I happened to trash a Province, earning a match tie.
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AdamH

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #16 on: August 21, 2013, 08:19:04 am »
+1

Video playlist link:

Game 1:
Game 2:
Game 3:

It's clear what I did incorrectly in this match. I guess my bigger issues is that for both of these matches I've been in this weird frame of mind where I make these poor plays that are uncharacteristic of me. Lack of focus in a big money deck, for example. I'm the kind of person that will buy Silver over other cards to my own detriment. Sure I'm learning stuff from these matches but if I'm going to continue to be ineffective when I actually play them then I'm not learning enough.
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StrongRhino

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #17 on: August 21, 2013, 01:33:58 pm »
+2

StrongRhino 2-4 Young Nick

SR http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130821/log.512fe24ce4b08cb66ebe7d7f.1377103072047.txt
SR http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130821/log.512fe24ce4b08cb66ebe7d7f.1377103401235.txt
YN http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130821/log.512fe24ce4b08cb66ebe7d7f.1377104045244.txt
YN http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130821/log.512fe24ce4b08cb66ebe7d7f.1377104516505.txt
YN http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130821/log.512fe24ce4b08cb66ebe7d7f.1377104891827.txt
YN http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130821/log.512fe24ce4b08cb66ebe7d7f.1377105729902.txt

I go ahead early with a more engine-y deck in game 1, 3-piling. Next match I somehow win with a clearly inferior deck. I realize I can win the match with one win in the next two games, and perhaps get overconfident. I proceed to lose the next three games, where I think Young Nick played better than me, including one where I didn't notice he had already bought 2 Duchys on a Duke board, and lose. The last game I had some terrible early Wharf luck and proceed to get steamrolled with Vineyards.

It was pretty fun still though, thanks for the matches.
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Re: GokoDom II: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #18 on: August 21, 2013, 02:05:13 pm »
+1

Adam, your second kingdom is actually very complicated due to the stonemason. I'd go back and revisit that and not look for the complications, but instead assess how you were weighing up strategies. Quite often your draws seemed to dictate your play, turn by turn, without a clear vision in the commentary of what your deck would deliver and how it needed to be done. For example you don't seem to give much consideration to duchy/duke until mid game, then the decision was taken away from you by a three pile ending, and I'm not convinced you were prepared for any of that. Framing your deck planning within a full game plan will help your general play.
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Re: GokoDom II: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #19 on: August 21, 2013, 02:48:29 pm »
+1

Adam, your second kingdom is actually very complicated due to the stonemason. I'd go back and revisit that and not look for the complications, but instead assess how you were weighing up strategies. Quite often your draws seemed to dictate your play, turn by turn, without a clear vision in the commentary of what your deck would deliver and how it needed to be done. For example you don't seem to give much consideration to duchy/duke until mid game, then the decision was taken away from you by a three pile ending, and I'm not convinced you were prepared for any of that. Framing your deck planning within a full game plan will help your general play.

In tournament videos I don't make an effort to articulate my entire thought process because I try and focus more on the game (perhaps I shouldn't approach it this way?). This is the best I can remember what my thought process was for Game 2:

Before the game: See draw engine with no trashing. I'm tempted to just play BM+Smithy or BM+Oracle or something, but if I go for Provinces and do that, my opponent building the draw engine will crush me with Duchy/Duke because he's playing the long game.

OK that means I need to play the long game, and that means I want to build the engine.

I think up until this point I'm right. However, I was mistaken in that this meant the game was going to be long. Of course if my opponent goes for the same thing the game will end on piles and I should have seen that. My Grand Master Plan™ of colliding Treasure Maps and Stonemason-trashing the Golds into Duchy/Dukes would have just taken way too long unless my opponent was going for Provinces.

I build my engine with that as the goal, instead of keep my finger on the pulse of the game. The next time I reconsidered my plan was after buying the first Province which was entirely too late.

Robz adapted to what was going on and I didn't, which was made a lot easier because he knew he would have to and got Ironmongers, which help a TONNE with that.

...but I'm not usually horrible about that! I usually adapt pretty well, and as I'm describing this, I feel like it's something I should have seen, but it didn't cross my mind to be pre-emptive or adaptable to it. I'm concerned that I'm playing my tournament games with that attitude.
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Young Nick

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #20 on: August 21, 2013, 03:26:35 pm »
+2

StrongRhino 2-4 Young Nick

SR http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130821/log.512fe24ce4b08cb66ebe7d7f.1377103072047.txt
SR http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130821/log.512fe24ce4b08cb66ebe7d7f.1377103401235.txt
YN http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130821/log.512fe24ce4b08cb66ebe7d7f.1377104045244.txt
YN http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130821/log.512fe24ce4b08cb66ebe7d7f.1377104516505.txt
YN http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130821/log.512fe24ce4b08cb66ebe7d7f.1377104891827.txt
YN http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130821/log.512fe24ce4b08cb66ebe7d7f.1377105729902.txt

I go ahead early with a more engine-y deck in game 1, 3-piling. Next match I somehow win with a clearly inferior deck. I realize I can win the match with one win in the next two games, and perhaps get overconfident. I proceed to lose the next three games, where I think Young Nick played better than me, including one where I didn't notice he had already bought 2 Duchys on a Duke board, and lose. The last game I had some terrible early Wharf luck and proceed to get steamrolled with Vineyards.

It was pretty fun still though, thanks for the matches.

Game 1 is further proof that I am still not comfortable with DA. With Hermit and Cultist, I was unsure if the trashing he got from Hermit would make up for my better Cultist stack/chain. I tried to throw some WV and Squires in for +actions, but ultimately it wasn't enough; my deck was not tight enough.

I was shocked I lost Game 2. I had more of everything and I countered most of his Mountebank plays with my Traders. I mean, yeah SR had one more Caravan than me, but I had 5 more Silver and 2 more Gold with fewer Copper to boot. And it wasn't even close. Huh.

Game 3 was interesting. His Watchtowers helped out a lot with both of us playing Soothsayer. Ultimately, though, I had a much more BM-based strategy and my Platinum were able to carry me through.

Game 4 was a basic Duke game. I used Scavenger as support and after pulling two early Gold, I jump into Duchies. As SR said, he(?) wasn't totally aware that game and I had it in the bag pretty early as a result.

Game 5 was a Rebuild game. Basically a coin toss. I definitely am no expert with Rebuild (see my aforementioned lack of experience with DA), but played this one well enough I suppose. I did have one stray Rebuild play on turn 11 where I didn't have any non-Colony Victory cards to trash but still escaped unscathed. Damn I need to re-read those good Rebuild strategy articles.

Game 6 was a Vineyards game where I loaded up on Potions before SR. Winning the Vineyard split easily, I just coasted to a final victory while slowly depleting piles.

I would love feedback on Game 1; it was an interesting kingdom. And if anyone can tell me something I am not seeing about Game 2, please let me know. Criticism and feedback, please!!

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Robz888

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #21 on: August 21, 2013, 04:03:33 pm »
0

Adam, your second kingdom is actually very complicated due to the stonemason. I'd go back and revisit that and not look for the complications, but instead assess how you were weighing up strategies. Quite often your draws seemed to dictate your play, turn by turn, without a clear vision in the commentary of what your deck would deliver and how it needed to be done. For example you don't seem to give much consideration to duchy/duke until mid game, then the decision was taken away from you by a three pile ending, and I'm not convinced you were prepared for any of that. Framing your deck planning within a full game plan will help your general play.

In tournament videos I don't make an effort to articulate my entire thought process because I try and focus more on the game (perhaps I shouldn't approach it this way?). This is the best I can remember what my thought process was for Game 2:

Before the game: See draw engine with no trashing. I'm tempted to just play BM+Smithy or BM+Oracle or something, but if I go for Provinces and do that, my opponent building the draw engine will crush me with Duchy/Duke because he's playing the long game.

OK that means I need to play the long game, and that means I want to build the engine.

I think up until this point I'm right. However, I was mistaken in that this meant the game was going to be long. Of course if my opponent goes for the same thing the game will end on piles and I should have seen that. My Grand Master Plan™ of colliding Treasure Maps and Stonemason-trashing the Golds into Duchy/Dukes would have just taken way too long unless my opponent was going for Provinces.

I build my engine with that as the goal, instead of keep my finger on the pulse of the game. The next time I reconsidered my plan was after buying the first Province which was entirely too late.

Robz adapted to what was going on and I didn't, which was made a lot easier because he knew he would have to and got Ironmongers, which help a TONNE with that.

...but I'm not usually horrible about that! I usually adapt pretty well, and as I'm describing this, I feel like it's something I should have seen, but it didn't cross my mind to be pre-emptive or adaptable to it. I'm concerned that I'm playing my tournament games with that attitude.

I think your deck failed in that game because 1) You got bad luck, and 2) You didn't have nearly enough draw.
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awildnoobappeared

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #22 on: August 22, 2013, 08:23:19 am »
+1

Indur d. awildnoobappeared 3-1

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130822/log.516d07bbe4b082c74d7a90a7.1377170244732.txt
I get wrecked quite hard by Cultist in this game. My Spice Merchant falls to turn 5 and that sets me back quite a bit, but my deck building is kind of unfocused anyway - Great Hall on turn 3 to get rid of Hovel is quite a waste.
I thought I might be able to somehow force a tie on the last turn, but I miscounted my provinces.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130822/log.516d07bbe4b082c74d7a90a7.1377171171961.txt
I see University and decide to use that to get the more expensive trashing options (Upgrade, Trading Post) and maybe some Death Carts for money. Big mistake, as Indur helps himself to Tournaments and gets first choice of prize.
Next time I try this sort of University shenanigans I'll make sure there's some draw on the board.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130822/log.516d07bbe4b082c74d7a90a7.1377171444901.txt
Not much to say here, Indur's Chapel falls to turn 5 and by turn 7 my deck is Tournament/Tournament/Poorhouse/Gold/Province.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130822/log.516d07bbe4b082c74d7a90a7.1377172778912.txt
By far the most interesting game of the match. We both open 5/2 and neither of us really wanted Library (yet). I open Plaza with an eye for saving up $ for Goons, while Indur makes the better choice of a Talisman.
Library, Goons, Plaza, Oasis and Herald are all key cards, and with Talisman Indur is able to get more Heralds, which I think are the key difference between his deck and mine.
The end result was closer than I expected, but Indur's deck was far stronger than mine and more reliably able to play multi-Goons turns.
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zporiri

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #23 on: August 22, 2013, 12:33:29 pm »
+1

3 zporiri - pitrpicko 3

some interesting, drawn out games where end game strategy meant a lot.

37 zporiri - pitrpicko 34
An engine that really lacked +buy. we both opened silver/moneylender and i was able to buy labs on my first 3 turns. he went for more economy/less engine since he didnt have perfect shuffle luck as i did :P. my originally plan was to add in an explorer with the lab engine, but he started going for provinces so soon i felt like i didnt have time. he apprenticed a province to buy the last one, but only ended up with $7 (really unlucky), which killed him. i stonemasoned a gold for two duchies to keep up. neither one of us could get $8 for the last province, and eventually i 3 piled on labs (duchies+estates) to win. he probably shouldve won this one.
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130822/log.5070529651c34c5abec034ad.1377181483311.txt

7 zporiri - pitrpicko 11
village+conspirator+lab+margrave engine with doctor for trashing and possession for fun and soothsayer for cursing. i was expecting to slim down with doctor super fast and not have to worry about sooth sayer, but my first two doctor turns missed which killed me. my only chance from there was possession. he won this one, and rightly so.
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130822/log.5070529651c34c5abec034ad.1377183758712.txt

5 zporiri - pitrpicko 48
treasure map game with steward for trashing. he opens plaza/steward which really helped him soothe out his turns, picking up another steward on turn 3. i opened double steward, but his opening seemed to be better. he got his treasure maps a couple turns before me, and without +buy i was done. also didnt help that i didnt connect my treasure maps in my 6 card deck :). i ignored provinces and went for vineyards because i had a super super super slim chance at winning that way as opposed to contesting him for provinces.
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130822/log.5070529651c34c5abec034ad.1377184444426.txt

50 zporiri - pitrpicko 43
the pivotal game 4. crazy action game with peddler, pawn, city, herald and cols+plats. i opened trader/pawn to trash some coppers, but couldnt resist trashing esates and buying more pawns on two turns (pawns to help get lots of peddlers), and those silvers hurt me a lot. i was barely able to pull off a double province turn on the last turn to win the the help of level 3 cities. fun game.
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130822/log.5070529651c34c5abec034ad.1377185513962.txt

zporiri 6 - pitrpicko 24
a tournament game with scrying pool, squire, and forager. i felt like my scrying pool strategy was superior to his strategy of loading up on tournament and foragers, but i misplayed this game very badly, i wish i could have this one back. if i had gotten another forager sooner i couldve trashed quicker and gotten provinces sooner. i really needed/wanted those followers. he got provinces before me, and that was all she wrote.
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130822/log.5070529651c34c5abec034ad.1377186346224.txt

zporiri wins by resignation (i got a phone call on my last turn, winning turn and was taking a while so pitrpicko resigned. sorry about that :) )
anotehr scrying pool game, this time with fishing village, nobles, and hamlets. death carts came into play late for extra economy. i bought two on one turn instead of double duchying at the end of the game (i needed a big turn to come back) and it turned out to be the right decision. scrying pool didnt mind the ruins, and i got my big turn at the end to win.
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130822/log.5070529651c34c5abec034ad.1377187811935.txt

some of the more interesting games ive plaed in a while, particularly the end game strategy that came into play. thanks to pitrpicko for the great games and sorry about the phone call at the end!
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #24 on: August 22, 2013, 01:42:29 pm »
+1

Joseph2302 and HiveMindEmulator rejoice in their shared victory!

J http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130822/log.5062f3dc51c3843e7939eb9f.1377188308481.txt
J http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130822/log.5062f3dc51c3843e7939eb9f.1377189157958.txt
H http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130822/log.5062f3dc51c3843e7939eb9f.1377189986539.txt
H http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130822/log.5062f3dc51c3843e7939eb9f.1377190772127.txt
J http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130822/log.5062f3dc51c3843e7939eb9f.1377192370078.txt
H http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130822/log.5062f3dc51c3843e7939eb9f.1377192809105.txt

Gmae 1 was Squire + Mint. Joseph went straight into Golds and Provinces, while I went into Highways, but kept Minting Silvers. The Silvers ended up getting in the way too much, and with no attacks other than a Pirate Ship, I couldn't slow him down enough to catch up.

Game 2 we went Cultists. He transtitioned into money, while I tried to build up into a Rabble engine with Pillage. But with Border Villages and Ruins out, he was able to end it on piles before I could do anything.

Game 3 was Ambassador + Tactician with no villages. He favored returning Estates to Coppers to keep buying power to add Ventures, hoping to buy stuff on non-Tactician turns. I just tried to slim down smaller to have more Tactician turns and I was barely able to squeeze it out (despite accidentally trashing a Tactician).

Game 4 started out with Ambassadors as well. This time he went for Counterfeit + Mine planning to double-play Golds for Provinces. I went for an Apprentice/HoP megaturn. With the prolonged early-game from Ambassador, I had plenty of time to build up Apprentice fuel with Armory, Mine, and HoP, and he only had 3 Provinces at turn 18 when the megaturn went off.

Game 5 I have no idea what happened. He bough a couple Remakes, turned one into a Jester and then bought Provinces every turn turns 9-12.

Game 6 was another money game. I had a 5/2 and opened Torturer/Courtyard vs his Silver/Silver.I bought a Noble Brigand on turn 3 that hit a Silver, which put him significantly behind, and I was able to ride out Apprentices to maintain the lead.

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