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[Stephen Grant]

Hi Y'all,

Playing with some friends last night, there was controversy as to whether or not a person ought to be able to reclaim and use the ability of an action-duration card from their discard pile after having cleaned it up prematurely.  The general consensus was that prematurely cleaning-up a duration card is not allowed, and that it could be rescued from the discard pile so long as the pile had not been shuffled.  I thought that the duration ability should be lost.

Thoughts?

[AJD]

Hi Y'all,

Playing with some friends last night, there was controversy as to whether or not a person ought to be able to reclaim and use the ability of an action-duration card from their discard pile after having cleaned it up prematurely.  The general consensus was that prematurely cleaning-up a duration card is not allowed, and that it could be rescued from the discard pile so long as the pile had not been shuffled.  I thought that the duration ability should be lost.

Thoughts?

Since it's not legal to clean up a Duration card before it's done what it's going to do, I guess the only thing to do in that situation is dig it out of your discard pile and put it back in your play area.

[gman314]

Technically, you're breaking the rules by discarding it prematurely, so you should undo it. Although, it's rather infeasible to undo it if you've already drawn cards from your new deck.

[Rabid]

Depends on where the game is being played,
From:
Serious tournament; game loss for rule breaking.
To:
Friendly home game; let them take it back.

[Grujah]

Really? A game loss for non-intentional, reversible error?

[Powerman]

Normally we just play if you're stupid enough to discard your Caravan / FV / whatever, you don't deserve the next turn bonus.  Doesn't take too long for the player to stop doing it!

[Kirian]

Normally we just play if you're stupid enough to discard your Caravan / FV / whatever, you don't deserve the next turn bonus.  Doesn't take too long for the player to stop doing it!

Indeed.  This really is all the penalty needed even in a tournament.

[eHalcyon]

Normally we just play if you're stupid enough to discard your Caravan / FV / whatever, you don't deserve the next turn bonus.  Doesn't take too long for the player to stop doing it!

Indeed.  This really is all the penalty needed even in a tournament.

Any edge cases for when it would be beneficial to discard the duration prematurely on purpose?  Maybe some trick with shuffle control.

[pst]

Any edge cases for when it would be beneficial to discard the duration prematurely on purpose?  Maybe some trick with shuffle control.

One of several Lighthouses to spread them out.

[WanderingWinder]

Normally we just play if you're stupid enough to discard your Caravan / FV / whatever, you don't deserve the next turn bonus.  Doesn't take too long for the player to stop doing it!

Indeed.  This really is all the penalty needed even in a tournament.

Any edge cases for when it would be beneficial to discard the duration prematurely on purpose?  Maybe some trick with shuffle control.

Absolutely. I'm trying to build a wharf engine and needed to play all 6 of my wharves this turn to draw my deck - however, it is of course better to have them split 3-3, so I would prefer to only have 3 of them stay out and re-play the others the following turn. Or similar with caravan.

[dondon151]

Oops! I played an Outpost on my Outpost turn!

[Asper]

Rule-wise, a duration effect is not dependant on whether the card has stayed out in play. Having it stay out is just for player comfort. So while premature clean-up breaks the rules, it won't actually cost you the duration effect.

If you get the effect, you should also have the card stay in play. Why? Because of something we here call "missing the reshuffle". If you shuffle your discard pile before discarding a duration card, it will not be in your next deck. If you place the discard before, it will. Therefore, sometimes a player might get an advantage of breaking the rules if you don't make him undo his mistake.

My advice: Allow and demand fishing it out. If you want to avoid players using that as a chance to look through their discard intentionally, make another player (chosen by the premature up-cleaner) fish it out. Losing the duration ability might work as a house-rule punishment for the discard, but as pointed out, there might be occasions where even this can be abused.

Allowing to get the card is not ideal, but probably the best you can do.

[shMerker]

Since discarding durations before their effects end is against the rules any advice in this thread is necessarily about process and fair-play, not really rules. The best way to deal with accidentally cleaning up durations is to not accidentally clean them up. Some people like to play them separately from their other action cards so that they're easier to keep track of. I've also seen "tapping" durations to signify that they will be cleaned up at the end of this turn. Whatever helps you is what you should do.

[Awaclus]

My advice: Allow and demand fishing it out. If you want to avoid players using that as a chance to look through their discard intentionally, make another player (chosen by the premature up-cleaner) fish it out.

I don't think this is a good idea, since you know what's in your own discard pile, but others don't, so you're not really gaining any information by looking through your discard pile, but you are when you look through another player's discard pile.

Also, it should be fine to retrieve a forgotten Duration from your deck, too, as long as you remember to do so before your turn (or revealing any Reactions). You just need to re-reshuffle afterwards and make sure you are shuffling in the cards in your hand that are supposed to be shuffled in.

[Asper]

My advice: Allow and demand fishing it out. If you want to avoid players using that as a chance to look through their discard intentionally, make another player (chosen by the premature up-cleaner) fish it out.

I don't think this is a good idea, since you know what's in your own discard pile, but others don't, so you're not really gaining any information by looking through your discard pile, but you are when you look through another player's discard pile.

It was an idea to exchange what would be an additional advantage for a punishment, but i admit it wasn't thought through. Usually a player'll only dig out his last turn's cards, so the benefit is about zero, anyhow.

[Stealth Tomato]

If an event occurs in error and in violation of the rules, and subsequent events can be easily reconstructed to correct this, always correct it.