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[GendoIkari]

The best enabler for Treasure Map is another Treasure map.

Solid Gold.

4 of them, in fact!

[werothegreat]

I actually played two different Baker games today.  The first one, I saved the token to open double Urchin, and then pick up a Tactician on a $4, and lost.  It took forever for my Urchins to collide.  The second one, I think I spent the token immediately on a Baker, and rigged up a KC-Baker thing that allowed me to get lots of Coin tokens every turn, and thus guaranteeing I buy a Province every turn.  Would have been much better with +Buy... I think I only won because my opponent (who went for Ventures instead) flubbed a turn.  He resigned.

[Awaclus]

A key $6 card (mainly thinking Goons here, maybe Altar too since trash->Baker is very appealing) is a reason not to spend the initial token on T1/T2 if you had a 4/3 split to begin with. It's pretty rare to hit $6 on T3/T4, but hitting $5 is normal, so that token is likely to get you the Goons when you wouldn't have otherwise.

Though it's much less rare to hit $6 on T3/T4 if you opened 5/3.

[Schneau]

The best enabler for Treasure Map is another Treasure map.

Solid Gold.

4 of them, in fact!

Good job, you explained the joke! 

[blueblimp]

A key $6 card (mainly thinking Goons here, maybe Altar too since trash->Baker is very appealing) is a reason not to spend the initial token on T1/T2 if you had a 4/3 split to begin with. It's pretty rare to hit $6 on T3/T4, but hitting $5 is normal, so that token is likely to get you the Goons when you wouldn't have otherwise.

Though it's much less rare to hit $6 on T3/T4 if you opened 5/3.

Ehhh depends on the kingdom obviously, but the $5's that are excellent at hitting $6 also have a penalty (Vault, Embassy), as do the terminal Golds (Mandarin, Count). So on T3/T4, whatever $5 is available might not help you that much more than a Silver as far as hitting $6 goes, unless you're willing to pay some sort of penalty.

[qdread]

I have a question on Baker for you experts... I see a lot of people buying Baker on T1 or T2 with the extra coin token. I usually find this isn't a great plan since Baker cannot guarantee you getting to $5 again on the first reshuffle. So it seems to me that it ends up slowing you down to immediately buy a Baker, and that it's usually better to get another $5 card, or save the coin token to get Gold. What are people's thoughts on this?

[KingZog3]

I have a question on Baker for you experts... I see a lot of people buying Baker on T1 or T2 with the extra coin token. I usually find this isn't a great plan since Baker cannot guarantee you getting to $5 again on the first reshuffle. So it seems to me that it ends up slowing you down to immediately buy a Baker, and that it's usually better to get another $5 card, or save the coin token to get Gold. What are people's thoughts on this?

I think the general idea is to get Bakers early to rack up a lot of coin tokens. It could be good in certain kingdoms, but otherwise you may be right that other options are usually better if you can live without the coin tokens.

[markusin]

I've spent the coin token to open Baker on 4/3, on a whim. I see what you mean when you say this isn't a great plan, because you spend a coin token to get a card that gives you the coin token back sometime during your second shuffle. Tying up your free coin token for an extra cantrip during your second shuffle? The benefits of spending the coin token to open Baker seems marginal when you put it that way.

I can tell you about a game I just played where I did that though. It was was a Goons game where the only way to play more than 1 terminal a turn was with necropolis, and my opponent was able to open Goons/nothing. I opened Baker/Forager because who knew when I would be able to get to $6 if I had to worry about Goons so early, and I was firm about not getting any terminals besides Goons. It was still a good game for a green-less Goons deck due to the presence of Sage, and Wishing Well was there too.

Sorry for the anecdote, but it's an example of the thin-deck rationale can could be used to justify such a move, even if it wasn't the correct play at all.

Of course, opening Baker without spending any coin tokens is a different story. Then we're talking about 2 coin tokens during the second shuffle, which can really help you get to 5$ or whatever more consistently.

[eHalcyon]

I would say that, as always, it depends on the board.  If there is a key $6 like Goons, you should seriously consider saving the coin token.  If there is another key $5, why not use the coin token and get that card immediately?  And if there isn't such a card, you have to decide whether you want a Baker or if you'd rather save the coin token for an early Gold.  Baker may itself be a key card anyway, and it's better to have it earlier than later.

[markusin]

Just to come back on this, but if hitting a key $6 is what you're after, then opening Baker/($3 cost) is effectively opening ($3 cost)/nothing just to save the coin token as far as the second shuffle is concerned. And that's assuming Baker lands into your turn 3 hand. If it lands in your turn 5 hand, then you opened ($3 cost)/nothing with without a coin token for the second reshuffle. You could have maybe gotten a Militia or something while still saving that coin token. However, I'd say it's unlikely that you can get both the $6 cost card and the Baker before the second shuffle, in which case you miss out on some of the benefit that Baker gives you from your third shuffle onward. If you want Baker, well, you gotta get them at some point, right?

[qdread]

Just to come back on this, but if hitting a key $6 is what you're after, then opening Baker/($3 cost) is effectively opening ($3 cost)/nothing just to save the coin token as far as the second shuffle is concerned. And that's assuming Baker lands into your turn 3 hand. If it lands in your turn 5 hand, then you opened ($3 cost)/nothing with without a coin token for the second reshuffle. You could have maybe gotten a Militia or something while still saving that coin token. However, I'd say it's unlikely that you can get both the $6 cost card and the Baker before the second shuffle, in which case you miss out on some of the benefit that Baker gives you from your third shuffle onward. If you want Baker, well, you gotta get them at some point, right?

Thanks for the input on this topic. I guess it comes back to the old canard that it depends on the kingdom. After all Baker is a good 5 that can probably be considered "key" in many cases, so I understand picking one up on T1 or T2. However, I think that if you get a 4/3 opening you will probably be better off saving the coin token and opening something like Militia/Silver. Then with the coin token, you are very likely to get two $5 cards on the second shuffle, or even a Gold on T3 or T4. By skipping the Baker on the first turn you can probably build a better economy by the third shuffle, if that makes sense.

[qdread]

Well, I just had a game where getting a Baker on the first shuffle was a very good move. It was a Gardens/Storeroom game. Opening Storeroom/Baker rather than Storeroom/Storeroom made it possible for me to repeatedly hit $5 for Duchies once all the Gardens were gone.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20131206/log.50745d1a0cf28ed55d9d6498.1386345850654.txt