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[soulnet]

So, the idea is to find the Kingdom card that is ignorable (by ignorable I mean you will not buy it) in the least number of Kingdoms. And maybe some close second or third.

My money right now is on Masquerade. Junkers are often really strong, but Masquerade alone often makes them ignorable, so they are easier to ignore than other less powerful cards. I think KC, Goons and Rebuild are hard to ignore, but not even close to Masquerade. The only Kingdoms I imagine to ignore Masquerade are rushes or slogs with gainers (basically Ironwors or Workshop + Gardens or Silk Roads) without enough power to contest the rush/slog with an engine.

Another strange candidate I have is Candlestick Maker, although I do not have the experience to really assert something like that.

[Asper]

I may be beating a dead horse there, as my hate for that card is something i shout out whenever possible - but i'm pretty surprised Rebuild isn't on your list. A card that almost always forces "mirror" as the only meaningful response seems pretty non-ignorable to me.

Repeating myself instead of reading carefully (sorry), i'm saying "Rebuild".

[WanderingWinder]

I may be beating a dead horse there, as my hate for that card is something i shout out whenever possible - but i'm pretty surprised Rebuild isn't on your list. A card that almost always forces "mirror" as the only meaningful response seems pretty non-ignorable to me.

So, the idea is to find the Kingdom card that is ignorable (by ignorable I mean you will not buy it) in the least number of Kingdoms. And maybe some close second or third.

My money right now is on Masquerade. Junkers are often really strong, but Masquerade alone often makes them ignorable, so they are easier to ignore than other less powerful cards. I think KC, Goons and Rebuild are hard to ignore, but not even close to Masquerade. The only Kingdoms I imagine to ignore Masquerade are rushes or slogs with gainers (basically Ironwors or Workshop + Gardens or Silk Roads) without enough power to contest the rush/slog with an engine.

Another strange candidate I have is Candlestick Maker, although I do not have the experience to really assert something like that.

Insofar as he has a list, isn't Rebuild on it?

[Asper]

Oops, why did i miss that? O__o

Take my post as a statement that i think of Rebuild as the least ignorable, then.

[Schneau]

At least as far as Iso games played by the masses is concerned, Masquerade isn't even close to the least ignorable. If you sort the Popular Buys by +%, at the top is Fishing Village, Border Village, Caravan, and Goons. A different perspective is the Win Rate Without, which gives win rates based on games where the player didn't buy the card. After Colony and some Prizes comes Goons, Tournament, Mountebank, and Witch. Based on those lists (which I'll admit are old and don't include DA and Guilds), Goons makes a pretty strong argument for the least ignorable card. Masquerade, on the other hand, has gain rate of 60% and a win rate without in the top 10 -- I'd put it in the top 20 least ignorable, but not number 1.

[Awaclus]

Copper. It gets really difficult to do anything if you ignore your starting Coppers.

[WanderingWinder]

Copper. It gets really difficult to do anything if you ignore your starting Coppers.

But how often will you lose because you don't buy it?

(by ignorable I mean you will not buy it)

[HiveMindEmulator]

It's probably Province. All the kingdom cards you can ignore 95% of the time (when they're not in the game).

Among kingdom cards, it's probably Mountebank.

[SirPeebles]

I missed Rebuild in the original post too.  I automatically read "KC, Goons, and Rebuild" as "KC Goons Masquerade".  This is particularly odd given that the list was explicitly excluding Masquerade.  Apparently I subconsciously think of that combo as entirely distinct from each of its components.

[Stealth Tomato]

At least as far as Iso games played by the masses is concerned, Masquerade isn't even close to the least ignorable. If you sort the Popular Buys by +%, at the top is Fishing Village, Border Village, Caravan, and Goons. A different perspective is the Win Rate Without, which gives win rates based on games where the player didn't buy the card. After Colony and some Prizes comes Goons, Tournament, Mountebank, and Witch. Based on those lists (which I'll admit are old and don't include DA and Guilds), Goons makes a pretty strong argument for the least ignorable card. Masquerade, on the other hand, has gain rate of 60% and a win rate without in the top 10 -- I'd put it in the top 20 least ignorable, but not number 1.

Yeah, but FV and Goons are both traps on some boards, and BV is really just gravy.

Win Rate Without for incredibly popular cards isn't useful, because most people not buying them are bad players and more likely to lose regardless of whether they buy it.

[brokoli]

Goons.

[mail-mi]

Scout.

[scott_pilgrim]

I missed Rebuild in the original post too.  I automatically read "KC, Goons, and Rebuild" as "KC Goons Masquerade".  This is particularly odd given that the list was explicitly excluding Masquerade.  Apparently I subconsciously think of that combo as entirely distinct from each of its components.

That is really weird; I re-read the post three times before seeing Rebuild in it too.  (I kept re-reading because I was confused by the following posts, and even while looking for it I didn't catch it.)

[soulnet]

Ok, now I think Rebuild is tough competition.

I'm pretty sure Mountebank and Goons are ignorable more often than Masquerade and Rebuild. Mountebank I'm especially sure, not getting even a single Goons is pretty strange also, maybe extremely fast games with good terminals and no Village?

[hockeysemlan]

Masquerade is good and all, but is it really the fastest/best trasher on all boards? Rats and Remake are two trashers who make Masque ignorable in my book. And there must be some games where trashing isn't really that essential. Altough I wouldn't know which other card would be less ignorable.. KC..? Nah, kidding, but gosh I love KC..

[soulnet]

Rats and Remake are two trashers who make Masque ignorable in my book.

Rats + Remake is what you mean? Just Rats is not exactly a trasher, and between Masq and Remake, I think I choose Masq more often than not, because while it only trashes one card, it also hurts the opponent a little bit, and helps the economy buy letting you buy stuff. Remake gets you Silvers or $3 for your Estates, but Masq let you buy whatever, usually even those 5s, which are delayed more with Remake. Also, Masq cycles faster, so you will play it more than Remake, and +2 cards is nice to avoid missing the first reshuffle (i.e., it has the same chance than Remake or any other card, if you open Masq/non-drawer).

[Awaclus]

Rats and Remake are two trashers who make Masque ignorable in my book.

Rats + Remake is what you mean? Just Rats is not exactly a trasher, and between Masq and Remake, I think I choose Masq more often than not, because while it only trashes one card, it also hurts the opponent a little bit

Did you mean: helps the opponent a little bit?

[SCSN]

Rats and Remake are two trashers who make Masque ignorable in my book.

Rats + Remake is what you mean? Just Rats is not exactly a trasher, and between Masq and Remake, I think I choose Masq more often than not, because while it only trashes one card, it also hurts the opponent a little bit

Did you mean: helps the opponent a little bit?

No? When your opponent plays just one Masq, you exchange the worst out of 5 cards with your opponent's worst out of 6 cards; this hurts you slightly on average unless you're significantly behind.

It gets way worse with discard attacks, where you either have to keep a bad card for fear of him playing a Masq (which really really hurts if you're left with a 3-card hand), or risk having to pass a good card.

[soulnet]

No? When your opponent plays just one Masq, you exchange the worst out of 5 cards with your opponent's worst out of 6 cards; this hurts you slightly on average unless you're significantly behind.

Moreover, the player who plays Masq decided to do so (barring Golem/Herald/double TR+draw weird edge case), so they probably have something to be passed. And they can trash whatever you give them if it does not look tasty, or maybe they can trash something worse, while you have to leave with what you got.

[MarkowKette]

If i exclude Province i think it might actually be Silver.
Yes treasureless Deck strategies are not that uncommon but even for those i often buy one or sometimes even two  silvers early to get to the first important components(e.g. Minion, Festival)

the action card i also nearly always buy one of is Warehouse which just fits in nearly every deck as a prime sifter and often makes a huge difference if the opponent doesn't go for one.

[Polk5440]

It's probably Province. All the kingdom cards you can ignore 95% of the time (when they're not in the game).

Among kingdom cards, it's probably Mountebank.

I don't know. Province may be more ignorable than Goons!

[SirPeebles]

I think Province is more ignorable than Colony.  There are plenty of alt-VP strategies that will ignore Province, but they are frequently less viable versus Colony.

[Awaclus]

No? When your opponent plays just one Masq, you exchange the worst out of 5 cards with your opponent's worst out of 6 cards; this hurts you slightly on average unless you're significantly behind.

It gets way worse with discard attacks, where you either have to keep a bad card for fear of him playing a Masq (which really really hurts if you're left with a 3-card hand), or risk having to pass a good card.

You don't have to be significantly behind, you just need to have worse worst cards than your opponent. And that's going to be the case pretty soon if your opponent went for Masquerade and you didn't.

[Davio]

How about Tournament?

Mainly because it's a cheap Peddler in the beginning makes it at least as decent as Silver.
Even when you're both skipping Provinces altogether it still has that Peddler-ability.

[brokoli]

I think Province is more ignorable than Colony.  There are plenty of alt-VP strategies that will ignore Province, but they are frequently less viable versus Colony.

In many colony games, it's faster to go for provinces.