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[-Stef-]

I don't know why, I just felt like posting my worst game of last month.
In case you're wondering: no, I don't have any plan here. No chance of winning either.

[HiveMindEmulator]

When I clicked on the link, I was still expecting you had won anyway

[Robz888]

Looks like an IGG board.

Stef opens Conspirator.

Oh, Stef.

[JacquesTheBard]

Oddly enough, despite the complete lack of a viable engine here, there's one engine-y card that will become strong very quickly: City. IGG is famous for emptying multiple piles at once. Once IGG is piled through, Cities hit level 3, giving a substantial economic lift.

The downside is that City and IGG occupy the same price point. To buy one, you must ignore the other. Besides, if you go for Cities and ignore IGG, your opponent will buy out all but the last 2 or so IGG. Then he catches up on Cities, while your badly junked deck struggles to empty the IGG pile.

Is there any way to make City viable on this board? Or is it wiser to ignore it?

[Robz888]

Oddly enough, despite the complete lack of a viable engine here, there's one engine-y card that will become strong very quickly: City. IGG is famous for emptying multiple piles at once. Once IGG is piled through, Cities hit level 3, giving a substantial economic lift.

The downside is that City and IGG occupy the same price point. To buy one, you must ignore the other. Besides, if you go for Cities and ignore IGG, your opponent will buy out all but the last 2 or so IGG. Then he catches up on Cities, while your badly junked deck struggles to empty the IGG pile.

Is there any way to make City viable on this board? Or is it wiser to ignore it?

I mean, this would totally be an engine board if there was a way to trash Curses. But there isn't. Which means that even if you have a lot of Cities, and you can totally deplete IGGs and Curses (which isn't so easy because the IGG-focused player should turn for Duchies with like 2 IGGs left, leaving you to clean them up), a bunch of Cities is pretty good but you probably won't draw your whole deck, since you have a lot of Curses. Loan can help you thin, but it was also cripple your purchasing power... and yeah, Loan doesn't help at all, you won't be able to hit $5 if you lose Coppers and gain Curses all the time.

Also, not +buy, other than the leveled up Cities.

[Mic Qsenoch]

There actually is a somewhat viable engine here. It requires you to get an early enough Familiar that you don't take all of the Curses. You can thin out a bit with Loan and pick up Cities where you can. And Contraband should help the engine because there are at least three different pieces you would want to get in a turn (City, Highway, Contraband). This all really hinges on not losing the curse split too badly though.

[SCSN]

Looks like an IGG board.

Does IGG beat Familiar? I've never seen an actual match-up (this one doesn't qualify either as Stef isn't going for Familiar from the start), but I've always thought that Sea Hag, Witch and Familiar make IGG  ignorable.

[Robz888]

There actually is a somewhat viable engine here. It requires you to get an early enough Familiar that you don't take all of the Curses. You can thin out a bit with Loan and pick up Cities where you can. And Contraband should help the engine because there are at least three different pieces you would want to get in a turn (City, Highway, Contraband). This all really hinges on not losing the curse split too badly though.

I don't see how it could work, though. You have to get the Familiar pronto, so you can't open with Loan. But later, your opponent is going to be Cursing you, and so now you get a Loan and your purchasing power is going to be shot. You will need Silvers just to be able to buy City, period, but that will conflict with Loan. I don't think it's going to work.

[Robz888]

Looks like an IGG board.

Does IGG beat Familiar? I've never seen an actual match-up (this one doesn't qualify either as Stef isn't going for Familiar from the start), but I've always thought that Sea Hag, Witch and Familiar make IGG  ignorable.

Probably depends on supporting cards. Here, the presence of Coppersmith makes me want to definitely head IGG.

[Mic Qsenoch]

There actually is a somewhat viable engine here. It requires you to get an early enough Familiar that you don't take all of the Curses. You can thin out a bit with Loan and pick up Cities where you can. And Contraband should help the engine because there are at least three different pieces you would want to get in a turn (City, Highway, Contraband). This all really hinges on not losing the curse split too badly though.

I don't see how it could work, though. You have to get the Familiar pronto, so you can't open with Loan. But later, your opponent is going to be Cursing you, and so now you get a Loan and your purchasing power is going to be shot. You will need Silvers just to be able to buy City, period, but that will conflict with Loan. I don't think it's going to work.

You don't buy Silvers, you buy Conspirators. And you spend your first few $5s on a Contraband and then Highways. I'm not saying its great, but it's possible.

[WanderingWinder]

There actually is a somewhat viable engine here. It requires you to get an early enough Familiar that you don't take all of the Curses. You can thin out a bit with Loan and pick up Cities where you can. And Contraband should help the engine because there are at least three different pieces you would want to get in a turn (City, Highway, Contraband). This all really hinges on not losing the curse split too badly though.

I don't see how it could work, though. You have to get the Familiar pronto, so you can't open with Loan. But later, your opponent is going to be Cursing you, and so now you get a Loan and your purchasing power is going to be shot. You will need Silvers just to be able to buy City, period, but that will conflict with Loan. I don't think it's going to work.

You don't buy Silvers, you buy Conspirators. And you spend your first few $5s on a Contraband and then Highways. I'm not saying its great, but it's possible.

So, you're opening... potion/loan, and then you're... not buying anything on 3, only on 4, getting conspirators, and you're counting on this to get you up to a significant number of cities? I expect this gets *destroyed*.  You're just almost never hitting 5. Or enough familiars. But definitely not both.

[Mic Qsenoch]

There actually is a somewhat viable engine here. It requires you to get an early enough Familiar that you don't take all of the Curses. You can thin out a bit with Loan and pick up Cities where you can. And Contraband should help the engine because there are at least three different pieces you would want to get in a turn (City, Highway, Contraband). This all really hinges on not losing the curse split too badly though.

I don't see how it could work, though. You have to get the Familiar pronto, so you can't open with Loan. But later, your opponent is going to be Cursing you, and so now you get a Loan and your purchasing power is going to be shot. You will need Silvers just to be able to buy City, period, but that will conflict with Loan. I don't think it's going to work.

You don't buy Silvers, you buy Conspirators. And you spend your first few $5s on a Contraband and then Highways. I'm not saying its great, but it's possible.

So, you're opening... potion/loan, and then you're... not buying anything on 3, only on 4, getting conspirators, and you're counting on this to get you up to a significant number of cities? I expect this gets *destroyed*.  You're just almost never hitting 5. Or enough familiars. But definitely not both.

I said it incorrectly, I meant you buy Conspirators over Silver, so hopefully you don't weaken your Loan too much. I'm just theorycrafting here. I can't test this stuff because I'm a cheapskate.

[WanderingWinder]

There actually is a somewhat viable engine here. It requires you to get an early enough Familiar that you don't take all of the Curses. You can thin out a bit with Loan and pick up Cities where you can. And Contraband should help the engine because there are at least three different pieces you would want to get in a turn (City, Highway, Contraband). This all really hinges on not losing the curse split too badly though.

I don't see how it could work, though. You have to get the Familiar pronto, so you can't open with Loan. But later, your opponent is going to be Cursing you, and so now you get a Loan and your purchasing power is going to be shot. You will need Silvers just to be able to buy City, period, but that will conflict with Loan. I don't think it's going to work.

You don't buy Silvers, you buy Conspirators. And you spend your first few $5s on a Contraband and then Highways. I'm not saying its great, but it's possible.

So, you're opening... potion/loan, and then you're... not buying anything on 3, only on 4, getting conspirators, and you're counting on this to get you up to a significant number of cities? I expect this gets *destroyed*.  You're just almost never hitting 5. Or enough familiars. But definitely not both.

I said it incorrectly, I meant you buy Conspirators over Silver, so hopefully you don't weaken your Loan too much. I'm just theorycrafting here. I can't test this stuff because I'm a cheapskate.

Ah, okay. I still don't think it works, but it's not ridiculous.

[brokoli]

I think if I were playing this game with Stef, I would be worried about his strategy ("oh no, he will crush me with a city-conspirator engine that only Stef can make work")

[WanderingWinder]

See, Stef is not the guy I think "Oh he pulls off that deck that nobody else could." I mean, sure, he does sometimes do the whole "I did *not* think you could do that, huh" thing, but lots of players will do that. But to me, his strength is more of picking the *right* thing, and most importantly executing that engine really really well.

[dondon151]

I think the key to any engine possibly beating an IGG rush is to pick up Familiars ASAP. Not only do you want to minimize the Curses coming in, but it also forces the opponent to waste turns 3-piling on IGGs that don't give out Curses.

Unfortunately, the options for +buy are absolutely terrible.