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Author Topic: Can Poor House cost you money?  (Read 4478 times)

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SCSN

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Can Poor House cost you money?
« on: July 05, 2013, 06:52:58 am »
+1

Say my hand is Festival/Poor House/5xCopper. I play Festival, which gives me 2. I now play Poor House, whose card text reads:

Quote
+4
Reveal your hand. -1 per Treasure card in your hand, to a minimum of 0

So I first get +4, which means I now have 6. I then reveal 5 Coppers, each of which gives me -1 to a minimum of 0, but since I have 6, that minimum is never reached and I'll end up with 1 money.

Is this how it works? I always understood the card as that it could give you at worst 0, but a literal interpretation of the wording suggests otherwise.
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Awaclus

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Re: Can Poor House cost you money?
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2013, 07:08:10 am »
+5

Yes, it can.
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Davio

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Re: Can Poor House cost you money?
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2013, 07:30:49 am »
+1

Quote from: The Rules
Poor House: First you get +4. Then you reveal your hand, and lose 1
per Treasure card in it. You can lose more than this way, but
the amount of coins you have available to spend can never go
below 0. Cards with two types, one of which is Treasure (such as
Harem from Intrigue) are Treasure cards.

So I would say it can cause you to drop back to 0 after playing a money giving action card.
As you get +4 first, which you add to your total, and then you subtract 1 from your total for every treasure.
It doesn't seem like it's specific to a what a single PH card can give you.
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mail-mi

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Re: Can Poor House cost you money?
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2013, 11:55:52 pm »
+2

In one game, i played a lot of powered up cities, had a bunch of treasure in my hand, and played a poor house.

I had $20. I could have double colonied  :'(
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Archetype

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Re: Can Poor House cost you money?
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2013, 08:39:39 pm »
+1

In one game, i played a lot of powered up cities, had a bunch of treasure in my hand, and played a poor house.

I had $20. I could have double colonied  :'(
I remember that game!
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Eran of Arcadia

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Re: Can Poor House cost you money?
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2013, 07:00:40 pm »
0

Huh, all this time I thought what the Poor House itself was adding was a minimum of 0, not all the treasure you had total. So if I play Festival and then Poor House and reveal the 5 coppers, the PH goes from +4 to +0, leaving me a total of 7 to spend. Is this not so?
« Last Edit: December 30, 2013, 07:08:10 pm by Eran of Arcadia »
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Kirian

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Re: Can Poor House cost you money?
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2013, 07:19:31 pm »
+2

Huh, all this time I thought what the Poor House itself was adding was a minimum of 0, not all the treasure you had total. So if I play Festival and then Poor House and reveal the 5 coppers, the PH goes from +4 to +0, leaving me a total of 7 to spend. Is this not so?

No.  In this order:

Festival gives +$2
Poor House gives +$4
Poor House reveal gives -$5
Total so far: +$1 (still greater than zero)
Five Coppers: +$5

Total: $6.
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Eran of Arcadia

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Re: Can Poor House cost you money?
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2013, 07:41:32 pm »
0

I suppose it's largely a moot point - since the card gives no other benefit, there is no reason to play it with 4 or more treasures in had - except for the edge cases of TR, Golem, HoP, conspirator, etc.

Maybe I'll house rule it anyways. I am not playing on Goko or in tournaments, after all.
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cluckyb

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Re: Can Poor House cost you money?
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2013, 07:45:01 pm »
0

So... edge cases where it is still optimal to play it when you have five or more treasures in hand?

Hand consists of five copper, a library and a poor house. You have two cards in deck and know the top card is an estate and the bottom card is a gold. Playing poor house gives you -1 now, but then it'll let you draw the gold with the library for a +2$ swing. Replacing the gold with a p-stone can clearly make the swing bigger, also HoP clearly has scenario that work, but is there a non-HOP case where its optimal to play poor house with 6 or more treasures in hand?

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ftl

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Re: Can Poor House cost you money?
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2013, 08:19:49 pm »
0

Obvious edge cases:
1) to decrease your handsize (for watchtower, library)
2) to remove a duplicate from your hand (for menagerie)
3) to activate peddlers, Horn of plenty, conspirators
4) to prevent yourself from being forced to do something with it by a later card play? (throne room)

It's pretty rare though - usually in the case where you'd want to play an action just for the heck of it, you either
(a) have four or fewer treasures in hand, or
(b) haven't played any +$ cards yet, so poor house can't bring you below 0.

I'd guess there's no need to house rule it just because it's a situation which will probably never come up unless you specifically try to make it happen.
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soulnet

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Re: Can Poor House cost you money?
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2013, 08:25:17 pm »
0

Obvious edge cases:
1) to decrease your handsize (for watchtower, library)
2) to remove a duplicate from your hand (for menagerie)
3) to activate peddlers, Horn of plenty, conspirators
4) to prevent yourself from being forced to do something with it by a later card play? (throne room)

5) Forced playing with TR, Herald, Golem. (I would say this is the most obvious).

EDIT: Maybe you were answering to playing it being optimal, so 5 does not apply. Sorry if that's the case.

EDIT2: 5) Processing it for 3-piling (only two Moats left, no +Buy). (saving the honor)
« Last Edit: December 30, 2013, 08:26:56 pm by soulnet »
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KingZog3

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Re: Can Poor House cost you money?
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2013, 09:03:09 pm »
0

Poor House can be worth negative $. It's in the secret histories, and I believe it's in the DA rule book. I feel it's ok with the -$$ possibility. More interesting.
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pingpongsam

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Re: Can Poor House cost you money?
« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2014, 12:03:13 pm »
+1

Edge case: Peddler with +buys.
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cluckyb

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Re: Can Poor House cost you money?
« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2014, 05:22:39 pm »
0

Obvious edge cases:
1) to decrease your handsize (for watchtower, library)
2) to remove a duplicate from your hand (for menagerie)
3) to activate peddlers, Horn of plenty, conspirators
4) to prevent yourself from being forced to do something with it by a later card play? (throne room)

5) Forced playing with TR, Herald, Golem. (I would say this is the most obvious).

EDIT: Maybe you were answering to playing it being optimal, so 5 does not apply. Sorry if that's the case.

EDIT2: 5) Processing it for 3-piling (only two Moats left, no +Buy). (saving the honor)

5)If the only actions in your deck are a throne room and a copper smith and you have ten copper, a golem and a poor house in your hand you'd get $4 from playing poor house then golem.

I don't get the 3-piling case though.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Can Poor House cost you money?
« Reply #14 on: January 02, 2014, 05:24:57 pm »
0

Obvious edge cases:
1) to decrease your handsize (for watchtower, library)
2) to remove a duplicate from your hand (for menagerie)
3) to activate peddlers, Horn of plenty, conspirators
4) to prevent yourself from being forced to do something with it by a later card play? (throne room)

5) Forced playing with TR, Herald, Golem. (I would say this is the most obvious).

EDIT: Maybe you were answering to playing it being optimal, so 5 does not apply. Sorry if that's the case.

EDIT2: 5) Processing it for 3-piling (only two Moats left, no +Buy). (saving the honor)

5)If the only actions in your deck are a throne room and a copper smith and you have ten copper, a golem and a poor house in your hand you'd get $4 from playing poor house then golem.

I don't get the 3-piling case though.

The 3-piling means it was the only way to gain 2 cards on the same turn, and you need to gain the last 2 Moats to end the game. Processing it gains you one of the Moats, and you can buy the other.
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