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[scott_pilgrim]

The problem, though, is that the Black Market is needed for Young Witch giving an extra kingdom pile, and the extra coin token from Baker might be necessary to get the first nine turns done in time.

Watchtower and/or Highway are probably the easiest to replace, but getting that first draw is tough without Watchtower (I don't use it at all otherwise).  Maybe Moat can get it started?  I only use two Highways in the whole thing, but man, they are important.  (At least one of them is.)  I considered replacing Ironworks with Feast, but that makes it harder to play the first nine turns, and Feast is terminal, which presents a problem for the beginning of turn 10.  I could almost do the first nine turns without Doctor, using Ironworks as cantrip Great Hall gainers (which is why the Great Hall lettering is wonky in my solution), until I realized that having Great Halls in the deck screws up the first re-shuffle on turn 10.  You could almost go without Great Hall, except that you need the +1 action when Ironworks gains it the first time (and it needs to draw Watchtower if you draw it instead of Watchtower).

I would be excited to see if someone can do this with fewer kingdom cards so that there is room for Chancellor and even Moat.

[DG]

The lucky chancellor could start lighthouse/chancellor/gold and then buy provinces for an even harder puzzle. He would of course be lucky enough to have the lighthouse in play when first needed.

[Kirian]

Actually, just noticed another problem:  You play a Highway twice with Procession, which removes it from play, then gain Border Villages with IW... but you only have one Highway in play at that point.  I think that throws a wrench in things, since Highway is "while this is in play."

[florrat]

Nice to see a first try of a solution... Let's see if we can reduce the amount of mistakes in it 

One more thing which I think is wrong with the solution: are you sure you can get the said deck in turn 10 without any Great Halls in it? You're using in your solution that your deck is empty (to time the reshuffle in the begin) which you cannot assure if you have great halls in your deck.

Also, can you give a sketch how you trash your hand in turns 1-9? How do you open? Do you open chapel + doctor, using the coin token later to guarantee a $4 for ironworks?

[scott_pilgrim]

Actually, just noticed another problem:  You play a Highway twice with Procession, which removes it from play, then gain Border Villages with IW... but you only have one Highway in play at that point.  I think that throws a wrench in things, since Highway is "while this is in play."

Darn, I was watching for that at the beginning, but by the time I finally played the second Highway, I forgot to not Procession it.  I'm not sure how important the later Border Villages were, so hopefully that can be fixed.

Nice to see a first try of a solution... Let's see if we can reduce the amount of mistakes in it 

One more thing which I think is wrong with the solution: are you sure you can get the said deck in turn 10 without any Great Halls in it? You're using in your solution that your deck is empty (to time the reshuffle in the begin) which you cannot assure if you have great halls in your deck.

Also, can you give a sketch how you trash your hand in turns 1-9? How do you open? Do you open chapel + doctor, using the coin token later to guarantee a $4 for ironworks?

I open with Doctor, overpaying by $3 (Powerman said controlling first hand is okay), and then I don't buy Chapel until later (exact turn number depends on the case).  Turn 2 is dead to make Doctor's naming easier, then the Chapel trashes Doctor after one or two plays.  Hopefully I can give a summary of each case later tonight.  A couple of the cases involve buying Silver or even Copper at some points (Doctor trashes more Copper than you want it to in one case).  I'm not 100% sure that all of the cases work, but the "hardest" cases all work (unless I have mistakes, which is possible), and the easier ones look like they are strictly easier than the hard ones.

[Powerman]

I believe my solution actually works for all 4 of the modes, without running out of space in the kingdom.  I will post it in a day or two.

[scott_pilgrim]

Well, I don't think anything is going to come of my attempt.  There is one case that I think is impossible in trying to get down to I/I/P/P/C by turn 10, so the rest won't matter.

On the other hand, I am very excited to see Powerman's solution.

[jomini]

I believe this beats the lucky Chancellor for any starting condition given the board and P1 (hopefully there are no errors):

Kingdom:
1. Band of Misfits (Bom)
2. Pawn (Pwn)
3. Chapel (Chap)
4. Peddler (Ped)
5. Stone mason (Stmsn)
6. King's (Kc)
7. Bridge (Brg)
8. Iron Works (Iw)
9. Watchtower (Wt)
10. Black Market (Contains Baker & Young Witch)
11. Chancellor (Bane)

This will be a colony game.

T1/T2: Baker means I can always open 5/2, order doesn't matter so buy a Pwn and Bom.
T3/T4: I will always play the Pwn as a cantrip. Putting Bom into T5 has got to be my worst luck so I can buy 2 Pwn here.
T5: Play any Pwn as cantrips. Bom (Chap) 4C (these could be the E, but it doesn't change anything).
T6: Play any Pwn as cantrips. Buy nothing
T7: Play any Pwn as cantrips. Bom (Chap) 3C/E.
T8: I now have 3 Pwns, 2 Shelters, Bom. All Pwns (cantrip) -> Bom (Chap, trash EE): Buy  Ped
T9: PwnPwnPwnBomPed: Pwn (+a/+b) x3 -> Bom (Stmsn: Ped -> Kc/Wt): Buy Ped x2
T10: Play any Pwn as cantrip until Hand is: KcBomPedPedWt: Kc -> Bom (StMsn: Ped -> Kc/Kc reveal Wt, Ped -> Bom/Bom reveal Wt, Wt -> Pwn/Pwn)
T11: Play any starting Pwn as cantrip. There are two possible stop hands
T11A: KcKcBomBomBom: Kc -> Kc -> Bom (Brg) -> Bom (Brg) -> Bom (Brg). 9 Cost reduction, 9 Coin, 10 buys = 1 Prov, 4 Col, 5 Duchies for 61 points

T11B: KcKcKcBomBom this is further divided based on how many Pwns I have already played
T11B1: Three or more Pwns already played: Kc->Kc->Kc -> Bom (Iw: gain Brg x3) -> Bom (Wt, draw BomBrgBrgBrgPwnPwn) -> Bom (Brg) -> Brg -> Brg [end triple plays] -> Brg. 10 coin, 10 cost reduction, 11 buys = 8 Col, 1 Prov, 2 Duchy for 92 points

T11B2: Less than Three Pwns already played: Kc->Kc->Kc -> Bom (Iw: gain Brg x3) -> Bom (Wt, draw BomPwnPwnPwnPwnPwn) -> Bom (Brg) -> Pwn (cantrip: draw Brg x3) -> Brg [end triple plays] -> Brg -> Brg -> Pwn (+a/+b) -> Pwn (+b/+coin): 8 cost reduction, 9 coin, 11 buys = 3 Col, 1 Prov, 7 Duchies for 57 points


Lucky Chancellor has purchased 7 Provinces for 45 points with his starting estates.


I think you can do better by ditching the Iw/Brg combo and buying more Ped to use Bom(Stmsn) to build a big Goons turn, but that requires dealing with a lot more cases.

You might be able to win as P2 by using Squire, Xroads, or Hamlet to set up a big turn where you Kc/Bom (Stmsn) and then generate a card explosion. I haven't fully worked it out.

[JacquesTheBard]

This probably isn't relevant until more solutions come out, but I thought of a twist that could take this challenge from difficult to impossible. The lucky chancellor opens Chancellor on 3, naturally. But what about his 4? Most of assume silver, but that really isn't necessary.

Spy.

It's from base, it's highly luck-dependent, and if the chancellor's perfect luck applies to his spy usage, it essentially pillages the unlucky human player every single turn. Best of all, spy's status as a cantrip means that the lucky chancellor buys up the provinces at the same tempo as normal.

To demonstrate the power level in question, the spy can repeatedly skip chapels, worker's villages, and militias as needed. Trashing down to the required deck of 4 non-cantrip cards will be nigh-impossible.

Naturally, we need to beat the Chancellor normally before adding in the spy. Does anyone here think that defeating the spy is even possible?

I think I will call this opponent the "Grand Vizier." A chancellor with a highly skilled assassin at his beck and call, crippling your best cards behind the scenes to eliminate all opposition to his rule.

[jomini]

JtB: Bom/Chap will allow you to chap away 4 cards regardless. If the Chancellor spies my Chap, I play Bom to trash 4 cards. If he lets me collide I play Bom as a cantrip and still Chap 4. For my solution, on T6 I can just buy an extra Pawn and on T8 Bom(Chap: trash EEChap). From there I'm drawing deck anyways and the only time I care about my top deck, I'm using Wt to control it and immediately draw it.


The big thing is that Spy sucks down another slot in the kingdom. This may well move it beyond competition, but that really doesn't say anything about Spy as being powerful, something equally worthless, like Scout works just as well on that count.

[liopoil]

forcing you to open BoM-chapel instead of BoM-pawn hurts too.

[JacquesTheBard]

BoM is a great addition to the kingdom, but I'm not sure it will be enough against the spying Chancellor. Remember, he gets spy in every hand. With 12 cards on your 2nd shuffle, he can remove two cards from it over the course of 2 hands. Let's say your chapel is the 6th card in that deck, and BoM the 12th. In that case, you draw 5 starting cards, and he spies the chapel. Regardless of what you buy, you still wind up drawing cards 7-11, all starters, leaving BoM the 12th card. Then he spies that. Depending on what you do during turns 4 and 5, he could slow you down for a very long time.

Your solution is a very good one, and I think BoM with Baker in the Black Market is one of the better plans of attack against the chancellor. Nonetheless, you'd still face an opponent that can rob you of 2 cards per shuffle in the turn 3-4 stretch. This could easily delay any chapeling effect until turn 7 or later.

[jomini]

JtB:
True, but I think that goes beyond "worst shuffle luck". Obviously the 6/12 is my worst split if the Chancellor plays intelligently, but it is crazy good if he doesn't. Once we start tracking all the possible actions of the Chancellor it devolves into a giant mess. Will the Chancellor "luckily" never play the spy when you have a reaction in hand? Will he count cards to strategically deny or cause early reshuffles? Pretty quickly we are playing against an omniscient Chancellor.


I mean at the end of the day, you can make any puzzle impossible by just adding more constraints. For instance give the Chancellor an Urchin and the Chapel strategy goes quickly to pot. Give him a Necropolis and a lucky Swindler and poof all your buys turn into rubbish. I mean even just lucky Chancellor/Igg (even without Baker) is just insanely brutal (before you can trash a single card, you gain 2 curses). Of the possible setups, Spy is actually not that strong.

[liopoil]

have the chancellor ignore chancellor and use luckily CC's solution to empty the supply in 4 turns .

So now the challenge is: Can you do better than perfect shuffle luck with worst shuffle luck?

[JacquesTheBard]

I see your point, jomini. Complicating the Chancellor scenario is rather arbitrary. I suppose it occurred to me for thematic reasons. Like Chancellor, Spy is a card of underwhelming power from the base set typically regarded as weak, with unusually impressive abilities if you're playing with a "perfect luck" approach. The fact that it fits seamlessly into the existing "Lucky Chancellor" challenge with cantrip status and $4 cost was icing on the cake. Perhaps building an engine in the face of a "perfect" spy would make a good puzzle in its own right, given how often our strategies rely on a single copy of a useful card that the spy could frequently snatch.

Thank you for your analysis. I look forward to whatever solutions you and your fellows may propose, whether against Lucky chancellor, lucky spy, a third option, or any combination thereof.

[jomini]

Okay this should work for the hardest mode, no restrictions on opening:
Kingdom:
1. Band of misfits (Bom)
2. Pawn (Pwn)
3. Procession (Prssn)
3. Squire (Sqr)
4. Goons
5. Peddler (Ped)
6. Stonemason (Stmsn)
7. Watchtower (Wt)
8. Envoy
9. Chancellor (bane)
10. Moat
11. Black market

This is not a colony board. Yw and Baker are in the Bm.

As with before I can always open Bom/Pwn. Until T8, all Pwn plays are cantrip.

T3: Buy Pwn

T4: Buy Pwn

T5: Bom(Chap: trash CCCC)

T6: Buy Sqr

T7: Bom(Chap: trash ECCC)

T8: I will always draw a Pwn. Pwn (cantrip) -> Pwn (cantrip) -> [Hand is now EEBomSqrPwn] -> Pwn (+a/+b) -> Bom (Chap: trash EESqr, gain Goons): buy Ped x2

T9:  I will always be able to play these three cards first Pwn (cantrip) -> Ped -> Ped [Hand is now GoonsBomPwnPwn] -> Pwn (+a/+b) ->Pwn (+a/+b)  -> Bom (Prssn) -> Goons (gain Kc)

Buy Wt, Sqr, Ped, Ped

Chancellor uses his coin token to get a Province

T10: At this point I have 3 Pwn and 4 Ped. All Pwns are played as cantrip if needed here. I play all but the last Ped as well. This gives me a resulting hand of: KcBomSqrPedWt with an empty draw deck.
 Kc -> Bom (Prssn) -> Squire (gain Silver/+2 coin/+2 buy, gain&trash Wt, gain Goons to top) -> Ped  (+2 coin/ draw Goons/silver) -> Goons (gain Kc to top)

I now have +5 coin (from Ped) +4 coin (from Goons) + 2 coin (from Sqr) +2 from Silver for 13 coin. I have 5 buys and a Wt in hand.

I buy a Stmsn for 9, gain two Kc (top deck), buy Envoy (top deck), 3 Ped (top deck one), thanks to top decking it doesn't matter if I have a Pwn or three left to draw.
 
Chancellor misses his province. He can buy a gold or duchy.

My deck now has 3 Kc, 3 Pwn, 6 Ped, Bom, Stmsn, Wt, Silver for a total of 16 cards

T11: Hand KcKcKcEnvoyPed: Kc -> Kc -> Kc -> Envoy (draw 10 of 11 remaining cards) -> Pwn (draw the last card, +3 b, +2 a) -> Stmsn (trash 3 Ped for 6 Goons) -> Bom (Sqr: +4 a/+3 coin/+2 b) -> Pwn (+3 cards/ +3b)
[End triple plays] -> Ped -> Ped -> Ped [all cards in hand] -> Pwn (+a /+b) x2-> Goons x6

This leaves me with 15 buys, 20 coin. I buy a Province,  2 Duchies, an Estate, a copper, and 10 curses (trashing with Wt).

This gives me 13 VP from cards and 90 VP from goons for 103 VP total.

Who needs luck =P

[JacquesTheBard]

Excellent work, jomini!

[liopoil]

Chancellor misses his province. He can buy a gold or duchy.

no, chancellor opened chancellor-moat. On T3 he had chancellor and 4 copper and bought gold. turns 4-8 he had chancellor-gold-3 copper and bought a province. on T9 he drew moat-chancellor-gold-copper-copper, and used coin token to get province. on T10, he drew moat-gold-copper-copper-copper, and played moat drawing two coppers and buying the last province for the win.

[jonts26]

How are you getting BoM to immitate chapel? I don't see one in the supply.

[scott_pilgrim]

King's Court is also not in the supply.

[JacquesTheBard]

Hadn't noticed that.

[Powerman]

My solution is coming up with a KC-Bridge mega turn.

Kingdom:  King's Court (KC), Bridge (Br), Fool's Gold (FG), Chapel (Ch), Mint (M), Governor (Gov), Moat, Chancellor, Baker, Fortress (F) --> With Colony

Turn 1: CCCCC --> M
Turn 2: CCEEE --> Ch (Deck is CCEEE M Ch)
Turn 3: CCEEE --> FG (Note: I am not sure if "worst luck" is $1 or $2 here.  If you have $2 you have to buy the FG, and then trash 3 junk turn 4.  If you have $1 you have to not buy the FG, and then trash 3 junk turn 4 (keeping a Copper) and spending the coin token.  Either way, you will get a 5 card deck for Turn 5 - A chapel, a FG, and 3 junk cards.  I am about 98% sure you will regardless be able to get down to Ch + FG + FG (and maybe a copper) for turn 6, however.)
Turn 4: M + Ch + CCFG --> Trash M, C, C, Buy nothing
Turn 5: EEE  + Ch + FG --> Trash EEE, Use Coin Token,  Buy FG
Turn 6: Ch + FG + FG --> Buy Br
Turn 7: Ch + FG + FG + Br --> Buy KC
Turn 8: KC + Br + FG + FG + Ch --> KC-Br, Buy KC + Br + Gov + Gov

Deck is now: 2x KC, 2x Br, 2x Gov, 2x FG, Ch

In turn 9, you MUST have a Gov or enough money to buy a Br. 
   If you do not have a Gov, you MUST start turn 10 with 2 Gov, and using them for draw, you can draw your whole deck and play KC-KC-Br-Br-Br and win.
   If you do have a Gov, use it for cards.  You MUST have at least 1 KC and at least 1 Br.  You MUST have at least 2 of: KC, Br, Gov.
      If it is KC and Br, you can play KC-KC-Br-Br-Ch (trashing 2 FG).  Buy a Br.  You have a Gov on top of your deck, use it for draw, play KC-KC-Br-Br-Br and win.
      If it is KC and Gov, you play KC-KC-Gov (trash Ch for Fortress) (trash FG for Fortress) (trash FG for Fortress)-Br, and buy a bridge.  Turn 10 you will have all self replacing cards until you can play KC-KC-Br-Br-Br and win.
      If it is Br and Gov, you can play KC-Gov (trash Ch for Fortress) (trash FG for Fortress) (trash FG for Br), and buy nothing.  Turn 10 will have all self replacing cards until you can play KC-KC-Br-Br-Br and win.

[scott_pilgrim]

It looks like Mint was really the key.  I'm guessing there are a lot of other solutions (including maybe a variant on mine) that would work with Mint.  It's a bigger on-gain trasher than Doctor, and on-gain trashing is really the best way to circumvent bad shuffle luck.

[JacquesTheBard]

I love that powerman's solution is purely economic, and doesn't need to screw with the Chancellor's playstyle. However, it does rely on a 5/2 split, which... actually, I'm not sure if it's allowed. I ought to double-check. Still, it would be best if one could demonstrate a variation of this that would work for any setting.

I'm also divided on whether or not to permit Colonies. It seems that if Colony were on board, the Chancellor should have the option of building his deck further to the level where he can pursue that instead of province. If the chancellor is programmed to ignore colonies on a colony board, it creates abnormally poor play for him.

Then again, it is in the spirit of the puzzle to limit the chancellor to simplistic strategies. The point is that clever strategies can overcome even the most potent luck advantages, and powerman, like our other contestants, has demonstrated this admirably.

[jomini]

S_p: The problem with Mint is that without a 5/2 split you have to use a Baker coin. This means you only trash 3 net cards (still better than Doc) and you can go a long time before lining up the cards needed for Fg expansion.
For instance
T3 CMintEEE
T4 ChapCCEMint - trash MintE, buy Fg
T5 EECCFg - buy Fg
T6 ChapFgFgCC

You still have too many cards left for FgFgBrg to be assured to work.

Pman:Very nice.

I think this can win from P2 regardless of starting split:

Kingdom:
1. Band of Misfits (Bom)
2. Chapel (Chap)
3. Sqr (Sqr)
4. Urchin (Urch)
5. Fortress (Fort)
6. Procession (Prssn)
7. Watchtower (Wt)
8. Goons
9. Moat
10. Black market (contains Baker & Young witch)
11. Chancellor (bane)

This is a NOT a colony game.

Open Bom/Chap, using Baker coin if needed.
T3/T4 Either I get to Chapel stuff sooner or I get at least a 4/2 here: buy a Fort.
T5: Bom(Urchin) -> Chap (trash CCCC).

The Chancellor needs to use a coin to buy a province unless he opened silver.

T6: EEECC: Buy Sqr
T7: Bom(Urchin) -> Chap (trash CCCE).

Here the Moat/Chancellor opening fails. If he uses Moat to hit a province at the start of T8, then he whiffs on T9 buying us one turn. A silver opening would let him keep hitting provinces here.

T8: EEBomChapSqr: Bom(Chap: trash all, gain Goons)
T9: GoonsBomFort: Bom(Prssn) -> Fort (gain a Bom) -> Goons: Buy a Sqr: 1 VP

Here a Silver/Chancellor falls behind a turn purchasing a gold. I now am assured of hitting T11.

T10: BomBomFortSqrGoons: Bom (Prssn) -> Fort (gain Bom, return Fort) -> Bom (Prssn) -> Fort (draw Bom, gain Bom, return Fort) ... keep this up until the last Bom is in the discard -> Fort (draw Bom, gain nothing, return Fort) -> Bom (Prssn) -> Sqr (+4 b, gain WtGoons) -> Fort -> Goons

T11: GoonsGoonsFortWtBom| Bom x9: Fort (draw Bom) -> [Bom (Prssn) -> Bom (Fort: Draw BomBom, gain Goons)] x5 -> Goons x2 -> Wt -> Goons x5. If I don't draw the Fort, then I just Bom (Prssn) -> Bom (Fort: Draw BomBom, gain Goons) until I draw the Fort and then play it.


7 Goons gives me 14 coin so I can buy a Duchy a Province and 6 coppers for a total of 66 VP.

an alternate (much more convoluted) approach is listed below I may as well leave in what I already typed:

T10: BomBomFortSqrGoons: Bom (Prssn) -> Bom (Prssn) -> Sqr (+2 coin +4b, gain Wt, Goons) -> Fort (draw Goons/Wt, gain Bom, return Fort) ->  Goons -> Goons: Buy Bom(reveal Wt, top deck); buy 6 C (reveal Wt, trash): 14 VP

T11: So I start with BomBom on deck top. As I need to have the Goons in play, they are stop cards and I cannot Prssn them so worst luck is having BomBomGoonsGoons on deck top. This presents 3 cases for what the other card in hand is.

BomBomGoonsGoonsWt: Bom (Prssn) -> Bom (Prssn) -> Wt (draw FortBom, gain Fort) -> Bom (Prssn) -> Fort (+4 a/ draw Fort, gain Bom, return Fort) -> Fort (+4 a draw Bom, gain Bom, return Fort) -> (gain Goons) -> (gain Goons)

I have now have in hand|deck FortFortBomGoonsGoons|GoonsGoonsBom

Fort -> Fort -> Bom (Fort) -> Bom (Sqr +1 Coin/+2 b) -> Goons x4

This gives 9 coin with 7 buys, I snap up the final province and 28 VP. In total I get 50 VP.


The next option for T10 is:
BomBomGoonsGoonsBom|FortWt

Bom(Prssn) -> Bom (Prssn) -> Bom (Fort: draw FortWt, +4a, gain Goons) -> Fort (draw Goons, gain Bom, return Fort) -> (gain goons) ->

Status is now:
Goons x3FortWt|BomGoons
Fort -> Goons x4 -> Wt -> Bom(Sqr: +1 coin +2 b)

This gives the same payout as the case above

The last case (where the 5th card is Fort) is left as an exercise for the reader, I believe it sets up a huge Bom (Prssn) -> Bom (Prssn) -> Fort (draw Bom gain Bom) -> Bom (Prssn) -> Fort (draw Bom gain Bom) chain. When it is done, I can play 9 Goons.


Its late so I expect mistakes, but this may be a way to finally beat the Lucky Chancellor even if he has Moat.

JtB: I think this solution meets all objections. As far as the Chancellor going for provinces, well let him. He has to buy a gold. His next turn he can hit Plat and then colony. I'm pretty sure that Pman's solution can be adapted to produce mass Goons. My solution isn't optimized (e.g. looking back I could Prssn the Chap to get an earlier Wt and perhaps gain & play all the Goons off a single big Prssb -> [Bom(Prssn) -> Fort] x10 type chain and perhaps even have enough Wt to play all 10. An extra turn lets us easily double the number of cards we are playing and you can just do a lot that way.