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Author Topic: Guaranteed Familiar  (Read 7167 times)

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Asper

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Guaranteed Familiar
« on: June 28, 2013, 03:13:58 pm »
0

Assuming you start the game with a 2 Copper hand, what is the earliest turn you can own a Familiar even with the worst possible shuffle luck? What cards are in the kingdom?

Edit: Thread title changed for reasons. You can assume what you want about your opponents (starting hand, good or bad will), only they have awful shuffle luck, too (meaning they will fail to help you whenever possible). The number of opponents is yours to chose, but only legal numbers for Dominion games.

If you want to know beforehand, it's turn 03.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2013, 04:01:00 pm by Asper »
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eHalcyon

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Re: Guaranteed Familiar by turn 4
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2013, 03:40:21 pm »
+4

Are there other players?  Is their goal to help you?

I'm going to guess that the earliest is turn 4, based on the thread title.
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Warfreak2

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Re: Guaranteed Familiar by turn 4
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2013, 03:45:09 pm »
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Open Squire/Doctor, with Baker on the board. Probably Hermit or Masquerade as your next buy, or maybe another Squire (I guess you could draw Squire/Copper/Shelter/Shelter/Shelter).
« Last Edit: June 28, 2013, 03:49:28 pm by Warfreak2 »
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If the only engine on the board is Procession->Conspirator, I will play it.

Asper

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Re: Guaranteed Familiar
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2013, 03:48:49 pm »
0

Are there other players?  Is their goal to help you?

I'm going to guess that the earliest is turn 4, based on the thread title.

Ah crap :P
Gotta change the title. It's wrong.

Also you can assume what you want about your opponents, only they have awful shuffle luck, too (meaning they will fail to help you whenever possible). The number of opponents is yours to chose, but only legal numbers for Dominion games.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2013, 03:57:04 pm by Asper »
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Asper

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Re: Guaranteed Familiar by turn 4
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2013, 03:50:28 pm »
0

Open Squire/Doctor, with Baker on the board. Probably Hermit or Masquerade as your next buy, or maybe another Squire.

What if you draw the Squire turn 3 and the Doctor turn 4, failing to trash Squire?
« Last Edit: June 28, 2013, 03:54:21 pm by Asper »
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liopoil

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Re: Guaranteed Familiar
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2013, 03:56:35 pm »
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do your opponents also start with 2 coppers in hand?
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heron

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Re: Guaranteed Familiar
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2013, 03:58:22 pm »
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The best I could do was Watchtower/Herald, putting watchtower on top of the deck. But that fails if you draw it with 3 estates.
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Asper

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Re: Guaranteed Familiar
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2013, 04:00:11 pm »
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do your opponents also start with 2 coppers in hand?

Whatever hand you like.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2013, 04:01:13 pm by Asper »
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Warfreak2

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Re: Guaranteed Familiar
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2013, 04:16:25 pm »
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Here's my logic: Doctor is the only way to shrink your deck before the first reshuffle, and if you don't do that, you have the possibility to draw your opening buys on turn 5. In that case you can't get a Potion before turn 3 because you have to spend your $5 ($6 with Baker) hand on a Doctor; Squire is the only way to gain a Familiar without buying a Potion. (Correct me if I missed something, there's Herald, I suppose.) I don't have any details worked out.

I didn't consider opponents helping; there's not much they can do so early in the game, they have to open Doctor too (for the same reasons), maybe they can Masquerade you a Doctor, but if they're able to guarantee doing that, you're going to receive it in a hand you already have Doctor in. Possibly Masquerading an Overgrown Estate for the on-trash benefit? But this is unlikely to help.
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If the only engine on the board is Procession->Conspirator, I will play it.

jonts26

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Re: Guaranteed Familiar
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2013, 04:19:26 pm »
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The best I could do was Watchtower/Herald, putting watchtower on top of the deck. But that fails if you draw it with 3 estates.

If an opponent does the same trick, but gives themselves a masq, then they can give you the second copper you need to buy and trash squire. Assuming they go first and start with either $2 or $3.
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Warfreak2

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Re: Guaranteed Familiar
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2013, 04:19:54 pm »
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Oh, there actually is a lot of complication with Masquerade, since you might not have to actually buy the Squire yourself! Someone else can open Squire/Herald, and you can open Masquerade/Herald, and then they pass you the Squire. Problem solved!
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If the only engine on the board is Procession->Conspirator, I will play it.

liopoil

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Re: Guaranteed Familiar
« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2013, 04:24:28 pm »
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using warfreak's idea:

kingdom: squire, herald, masquerade, baker
2 players, you are player 1.
both of you open 2-5.

P1 spends coin token, buys masquerade
P2 buys squire
P1 buys herald, putting masquerade on top of deck
P2 buys herald, putting squire on top of deck
P1 plays masq, P2 passes squire, P1 trashes squire.

3 turns.
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Asper

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Re: Guaranteed Familiar
« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2013, 04:28:26 pm »
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Very good, guys.


Can you do it without opponents helping? I can.

Edit: It's even easier ;)
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Warfreak2

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Re: Guaranteed Familiar
« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2013, 04:29:01 pm »
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That's not "using" my idea, that is my idea.
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If the only engine on the board is Procession->Conspirator, I will play it.

liopoil

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Re: Guaranteed Familiar
« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2013, 04:31:29 pm »
+1

That's not "using" my idea, that is my idea.
well, yes :P. I just wrote it up. I actually didn't realize it was exactly the same until after I wrote it.
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Asper

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Re: Guaranteed Familiar
« Reply #15 on: June 28, 2013, 04:33:41 pm »
+1

That's not "using" my idea, that is my idea.

It's an homage.
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liopoil

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Re: Guaranteed Familiar
« Reply #16 on: June 28, 2013, 04:34:48 pm »
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turn 3 without opponents? hmmm.
I feel like there's a way to use stonemason...
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DG

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Re: Guaranteed Familiar
« Reply #17 on: June 28, 2013, 04:35:53 pm »
+10

With baker in kingdom, buy watchtower, buy inn, put watchtower and inn into the draw deck. Turn 3 play inn to guarantee a 2 coin hand to buy a squire, trash squire with the watchtower, gain the familiar and put it on top of the deck.
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SirPeebles

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Re: Guaranteed Familiar
« Reply #18 on: June 28, 2013, 04:36:32 pm »
+3

Kingdom: Baker, Great Hall, Watchtower, Squire;  Shelters

Solution:  t1:  Spend a coin token.  Buy a Great Hall, and trash Hovel.

t2:  Buy Watchtower.

t3/t4:  If you draw Watchtower with two Coppers, buy a Squire and trash it for a Familiar.  If you draw Watchtower without two Coppers, then you must have Great Hall in hand; play it to draw your second Copper.  If you draw Great Hall without Watchtower, then play it.


Edit:  Hey, you all changed the number of turns while I wasn't looking!  Well, at least my solution works for any opening split, and not just 2/5.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2013, 04:43:21 pm by SirPeebles »
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eHalcyon

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Re: Guaranteed Familiar
« Reply #19 on: June 28, 2013, 04:44:11 pm »
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But SirPeeble's solution takes up to 4 turns, doesn't it?

DG already got your alternate solution, Asper.
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liopoil

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Re: Guaranteed Familiar
« Reply #20 on: June 28, 2013, 04:44:45 pm »
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yeah, the one with great hall can take 4 turns. Asper's works though.
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SirPeebles

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Re: Guaranteed Familiar
« Reply #21 on: June 28, 2013, 04:47:24 pm »
+2

Aww, Asper disrespected me  :-[
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Asper

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Re: Guaranteed Familiar
« Reply #22 on: June 28, 2013, 04:48:22 pm »
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Aww, Asper disrespected me  :-[

Here you go (*+1s*), it's my own fault i can't read.
I believed you because i thought "It's SirPeebles, surely he's right" ;)

Also yeah, GDs solution is mine.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Guaranteed Familiar
« Reply #23 on: June 28, 2013, 04:51:11 pm »
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Aww, Asper disrespected me  :-[

Here you go (*+1s*), it's my own fault i can't read.
I believed you because i thought "It's SirPeebles, surely he's right" ;)

Also yeah, GDs solution is mine.

You deleted one of your posts!  :P
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heron

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Re: Guaranteed Familiar
« Reply #24 on: June 28, 2013, 04:53:03 pm »
+6

Sir Peebles $5
Action-Attack-Knight
[Knight Stuff]
While this is in play, your opponents believe everything you say.
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