Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[BubbleBoy]

Just a slush of ideas I had trying to make Potions a little more interesting. Comments and suggestions welcome and appreciated!

Ale
+5 Cards
At the start of your next turn, discard a card from your hand.
($2P Action – Duration)

(Ale's great, but too many can give you quite a hangover.)

Assistant
+1 Card
Choose three: +1 Action; +$1; +1 Potion; +1 Buy; Trash a card from your hand.
(Choices may be repeated.)
($3P Action)

(Sort of a super-Pawn with more flexibility. I don't think it's too much like Pawn, either, since the results will be drastically improved and actually useful.)

Elixir
When you play this, choose one: +$1; or +1 Potion.
-----
When you discard this from your hand, you may reveal it. If you do, +1 Card.
($1P Treasure – Reaction)

(If I understand the rules correctly, you could just keep this card in your hand until the end of your turn, reveal it during cleanup, and get an extra card for next turn. I hope that works, because I designed this with that strategic option in mind. Also, this soft counters discarding attacks and combos in general with cards that discard from your hand.)

Medicine Merchant
+1 Buy
You may discard a Potion from your hand. If you do, +$6. Otherwise, gain a Potion into your hand.
($0PP Action)

(This costs TWO Potions, not just one. It works a lot like a super Baron, but with Potions, making it higher risk and higher reward.)

Necromancer
Trash a card from your hand. You may gain a card costing no more than the trashed card, and you may gain a non-Victory card from the Trash pile. If you gained a Curse card, each other player gains a Curse card and you may play this again.
($4P Action – Attack)

(This is sort of meant to combo with Magic Charm from this thread, which was previously named Necromancer. I tried very hard to find a balanced card that could fish from the trash pile, and I think this is about as good as it gets: The best use you will most likely be able to make of this card is to trash your best card from your hand and double gain it back, but it can have better uses if people are having fun trashing good cards for benefits.)

[popsofctown]

Assistant looks fun but probably needs to be 4P or 5P.  It is flexible, and choosing "Action, card, card" means drawing Assistant is the equivalent of drawing 2 Labs.  A comparison to Golem becomes apt.

0pp is a bad idea imo, it runs against the philosophy of potions.  Potion collision is supposed to be the key discouragement against massing Familiars or Apothecaries or Alchemists, etc.  Putting a safety net for Potion collision on the board will make those kinds of cards too powerful, unless your 0pp card is so weak that it can't be purchased as the only potion card on the board.

Necromancer is certainly interesting.  I want to draw that guy alongside a Watchtower

[dondon151]

Assistant looks fun but probably needs to be 4P or 5P.  It is flexible, and choosing "Action, card, card" means drawing Assistant is the equivalent of drawing 2 Labs.  A comparison to Golem becomes apt.

You can't choose +card with Assistant.

That said, the flexibility makes it far superior to Market, but just how much better is the question. If it's not a whole lot better, then $3P is probably a good price. The trashing option will become relatively useless at $4P because it takes so long to get this card - compare it to something like Upgrade, which most players would pay $5 for during the first reshuffle but probably not afterwards.

I also feel like this card has a bit of Grand Market syndrome; that is, once you get 1, it becomes much easier to get more, but getting the first one requires a bit of luck.

Ale seems to be quite strong at $2P but at the same time its potential to be a good BM enabler is massively weakened by the $P cost, and we all know that Potion cost cards are generally terrible in BM with a few exceptions. Still, it feels like a stronger Embassy.

[BubbleBoy]

Assistant looks fun but probably needs to be 4P or 5P.  It is flexible, and choosing "Action, card, card" means drawing Assistant is the equivalent of drawing 2 Labs.  A comparison to Golem becomes apt.

You can't choose +card with Assistant.

That said, the flexibility makes it far superior to Market, but just how much better is the question. If it's not a whole lot better, then $3P is probably a good price. The trashing option will become relatively useless at $4P because it takes so long to get this card - compare it to something like Upgrade, which most players would pay $5 for during the first reshuffle but probably not afterwards.

I also feel like this card has a bit of Grand Market syndrome; that is, once you get 1, it becomes much easier to get more, but getting the first one requires a bit of luck.

Options include: Market, Bazaar, optimized Conspirator, Worker's Village, and much, much more. That flexibility should probably increase the cost now that I think about it. Originally, I did not have the mandatory +1 Card on there, and I'm thinking it was more balanced that way, because it isn't always a guaranteed cantrip. The thing is hard to price no matter what, though.

0pp is a bad idea imo, it runs against the philosophy of potions.  Potion collision is supposed to be the key discouragement against massing Familiars or Apothecaries or Alchemists, etc.  Putting a safety net for Potion collision on the board will make those kinds of cards too powerful, unless your 0pp card is so weak that it can't be purchased as the only potion card on the board.

Well, in most games I've played recently, when there is a Potion-cost card on a board it's usually alone, and I kept that in mind when making this. Maybe it shakes up the philosophy of Potions a bit, but that was my goal. Playtesting may prove this to be too powerful, but I think it's usually going to be too huge a risk to really attract players.

Necromancer is certainly interesting.  I want to draw that guy alongside a Watchtower

Yeah, I'm almost certain there is breaking potential here. There is, however, a cursing limit equal to your hand size, so hopefully that will keep this card in balance most games.

Ale seems to be quite strong at $2P but at the same time its potential to be a good BM enabler is massively weakened by the $P cost, and we all know that Potion cost cards are generally terrible in BM with a few exceptions. Still, it feels like a stronger Embassy.

Well, keep in mind that it's a Duration, meaning it can't cycle through your deck very well (especially not if you have a lot of these).

[Morgrim7]

First off, nice cards. My favorites are Elixir and Necromancer. I agree with popsofctown, though, assistant would be good at 4P.

Necromancer is certainly interesting.  I want to draw that guy alongside a Watchtower

Or Trader... or Trader, gain a Silver, Watchtower, put it on deck.

[Axxle]

First off, nice cards. My favorites are Elixir and Necromancer. I agree with popsofctown, though, assistant would be good at 4P.

Necromancer is certainly interesting.  I want to draw that guy alongside a Watchtower

Or Trader... or Trader, gain a Silver, Watchtower, put it on deck.

You reveal the trader when you "would" gain the curse, you instead don't and gain a silver instead. So the necromancer wouldn't trigger off it. And this makes your blue dog sad.

[PigFiend]

The repeated Curse gain of Necromancer seems quite broken. "I have a marginal lead and two piles are empty, so I play a Necromancer to empty the Curse pile." I think we'd all hate losing to this one-card combo after the other player bought a Duchy. Even a canny player might just do this when he's at the beginning of a shuffle and his opponent is at the end of his.
One insidious purpose to the card is Necro'ing a Ill-Gotten Gains to gain an Ill-Gotten Gains from the supply and regain the trashed Ill-Gotten Gains. I can also imagine Apprentice'ing a Gold to draw, and then Necro'ing a copper away to regain that Gold.

Ale seems very very strong, like a super Envoy that draws one more card but rather than the left player making you discard your best card, you discard an Estate from the next hand. Having to have a Potion in your deck hurts it as a big money strategy, though. Its drawback could be good for Menagerie or Watchtower.

I like Actions that add Potions to your money.

I wonder if Assistant is sicker than Alchemist. With trashing, Assistant can be as consistent as Alchemist. To top it off, it improves your money density and gives you the extra buy! Let's see. Turn 5, you play an Assistant, trash two cards, provide a Potion, and buy an Assistant. Turn 6, you buy another Assistant with your Potion card. Then you'd reshuffle three cards practically as good as Grand Market into your deck. Grand Market gives you the extra buys easier, but on the flip side, you can eschew an unneeded +Action to trash a card... so maybe it's better than Grand Market?!
Haha. The empowerment of this makes me want to try it out.

[Morgrim7]

The repeated Curse gain of Necromancer seems quite broken. "I have a marginal lead and two piles are empty, so I play a Necromancer to empty the Curse pile." I think we'd all hate losing to this one-card combo after the other player bought a Duchy. Even a canny player might just do this when he's at the beginning of a shuffle and his opponent is at the end of his.
One insidious purpose to the card is Necro'ing a Ill-Gotten Gains to gain an Ill-Gotten Gains from the supply and regain the trashed Ill-Gotten Gains. I can also imagine Apprentice'ing a Gold to draw, and then Necro'ing a copper away to regain that Gold.

Ale seems very very strong, like a super Envoy that draws one more card but rather than the left player making you discard your best card, you discard an Estate from the next hand. Having to have a Potion in your deck hurts it as a big money strategy, though. Its drawback could be good for Menagerie or Watchtower.

I like Actions that add Potions to your money.

I wonder if Assistant is sicker than Alchemist. With trashing, Assistant can be as consistent as Alchemist. To top it off, it improves your money density and gives you the extra buy! Let's see. Turn 5, you play an Assistant, trash two cards, provide a Potion, and buy an Assistant. Turn 6, you buy another Assistant with your Potion card. Then you'd reshuffle three cards practically as good as Grand Market into your deck. Grand Market gives you the extra buys easier, but on the flip side, you can eschew an unneeded +Action to trash a card... so maybe it's better than Grand Market?!
Haha. The empowerment of this makes me want to try it out.

First of all, +1 for eschew. Secondly, I have to agree that Necromancer is broken.
Consider this example: OK, I'll play a Salvager,  trashing a Platinum, getting +$9, now Necromancer, trash a curse, gain a Platinum. This card turns Apprentice into 3 Labs, a Salvager into 2 Barons, a Remodel into an immediate Province...ect.

[BubbleBoy]

This card turns Apprentice into 3 Labs, a Salvager into 2 Barons, a Remodel into an immediate Province...ect.

And it costs $4P. It's definitely not too easy to set up these combos IMO. However, I think the replay ability is a bit too much, partially because mega-Cursing isn't cool and partially because I would like there to be some incentive for players to gain multiple copies of this.

[PigFiend]

This card turns Apprentice into 3 Labs, a Salvager into 2 Barons, a Remodel into an immediate Province...ect.

And it costs $4P. It's definitely not too easy to set up these combos IMO. However, I think the replay ability is a bit too much, partially because mega-Cursing isn't cool and partially because I would like there to be some incentive for players to gain multiple copies of this.

Until testing it, my only real bugaboo is the empty the Curse pile finish. =) Otherwise, yeah, I think it should be powerful! In fact, I think it might be too slow outside of a game where you're running rampant on your opposition anyway.

[popsofctown]

I stand corrected. 

And if you're just going to balance Medicine Merchant as if no other potion cost cards will pop up with it, I guess that makes some sense. 
Getting a 6$ Baron probably isn't close enough to "gain four golds to the top of your deck" for this to be strong.  I think it'd be a Transmute.