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Author Topic: Guilds is here!  (Read 17904 times)

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philosophyguy

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Guilds is here!
« on: June 13, 2013, 10:46:53 am »
+6

Photos on this twitter stream
TAXMAN
Cost 4
Action - Attack
You may trash a Treasure from your hand. Each other player with 5 or more cards in hand discards a copy of it (or reveals a hand without it). Gain a Treasure card costing up to $3 more than the trashed card, putting it on top of your deck.

STONEMASON
Cost 2+
Action
Trash a card from your hand, Gain 2 cards each costing less than it.
-----
When you buy this, you may overpay for it. If you do, gain 2 Action cards each costing the amount you overpaid.

PLAZA
Cost 4
Action
+1 Card
+2 Actions
You may discard a Treasure card. If you do, take a Coin token.

SOOTHSAYER
Cost 5
Action - Attack
Gain a Gold. Each other player gains a Curse. Each player who did draws a card.

MASTERPIECE
Cost 3+
Treasure
$1
--------
When you buy this, you may overpay for it. If you do, gain a Silver per $1 you overpaid.

MERCHANT GUILD
Cost 5
Action
+1 Buy
+$1
--------
While this is in play, when you buy a card, take a Coin token.

CANDLESTICK MAKER
Cost 2
Action
+1 Action
+1 Buy
Take a Coin Token

ADVISOR
Cost 4
Action
+1 Action
Reveal the top 3 cards of your deck. The player to your left chooses one of them. Discard that card. Put the other cards into your hand.


Already known:
BAKER
Cost 5
Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
Take a Coin token.
---------
Setup: Each player takes a Coin token.

DOCTOR
Cost 3+
Action
Name a card. Reveal the top 3 cards of your deck. Trash the matches. Put the rest back on top in any order.
-------------
When you buy this, you may overpay for it. For each $1 you overpaid, look at the top card of your deck; trash it, discard it, or put it back.

JOURNEYMAN
Cost 5
Action
Name a card. Reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal 3 cards that are not the named card. Put those cards into your hand and discard the rest.

BUTCHER
Cost 5
Take 2 Coin tokens. You may trash a card from your hand and then pay any number of Coin tokens. If you did trash a card, gain a card with a cost of up to the cost of the trashed card plus the number of Coin tokens you paid.

HERALD
Cost 4+
+1 Card
+1 Action
Reveal the top card of your deck. If it is an Action, play it.
-----------
When you buy this, you may overpay for it. For each $1 you overpaid, look through your discard pile and put a card from it on top of your deck.
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cluckyb

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Re: Guilds is here!
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2013, 11:45:32 am »
0

Well Masterpiece + Feodum sure will be nice, especially in games with lots of money but no buy.

Stone Mason looks really interesting.

Merchant Guild looks kinda weak. Its essentially a bridge that gives you the discount in a later turn instead of this one. But you want the discount the same turn you have the +buy. (I assume you can't get a token from the Merchant Guild and then immediately spend it)

Taxman looks better than a mine. Sure you lose the card that turn, but you get it right back and it has a cutpurse effect. Doesn't really hurt it that much and is $1 cheaper.

Shame there is no victory card.
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Robz888

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Re: Guilds is here!
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2013, 11:49:57 am »
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What do we think about Soothsayer? Looks a lot weaker to me than Witch and Mountebank.
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Dsell

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Re: Guilds is here!
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2013, 12:03:22 pm »
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What do we think about Soothsayer? Looks a lot weaker to me than Witch and Mountebank.

Probably weaker but gaining gold is very nice and doubly so in cursing games.
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Dsell

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Re: Guilds is here!
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2013, 12:04:59 pm »
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Plaza looks terrific. So much flexibility there, although it'll require some coppers (or masterpieces) lying around in your engine.
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Asper

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Re: Guilds is here!
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2013, 12:22:28 pm »
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Argh, now you did it. I'm hyped.
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DG

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Re: Guilds is here!
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2013, 12:41:39 pm »
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Who was predicting we'd get horde variant, a cheaper develop, a cross between an envoy and a lab, a cross between a pillage and a mine, and a curse giver that gains gold. They all look sort of balanced, although some of them could be really good or really, really, bad ... depending upon the kingdom.
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WheresMyElephant

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Re: Guilds is here!
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2013, 01:08:46 pm »
0

Well Masterpiece + Feodum sure will be nice, especially in games with lots of money but no buy.

Stone Mason looks really interesting.

Merchant Guild looks kinda weak. Its essentially a bridge that gives you the discount in a later turn instead of this one. But you want the discount the same turn you have the +buy. (I assume you can't get a token from the Merchant Guild and then immediately spend it)

Taxman looks better than a mine. Sure you lose the card that turn, but you get it right back and it has a cutpurse effect. Doesn't really hurt it that much and is $1 cheaper.

Shame there is no victory card.

The advantage Merchant Guild has over Bridge must surely be that it helps you buy expensive cards as well as cheap ones. Picking up your first KC in a Bridge deck is such a hassle (although that's all to the good), but not for Merchant Guild.
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shMerker

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Re: Guilds is here!
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2013, 01:12:38 pm »
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KC combos more directly with Bridge too. Targeting Merchant's Guild with it just doesn't do very much.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Guilds is here!
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2013, 01:13:19 pm »
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Well Masterpiece + Feodum sure will be nice, especially in games with lots of money but no buy.

Stone Mason looks really interesting.

Merchant Guild looks kinda weak. Its essentially a bridge that gives you the discount in a later turn instead of this one. But you want the discount the same turn you have the +buy. (I assume you can't get a token from the Merchant Guild and then immediately spend it)

Taxman looks better than a mine. Sure you lose the card that turn, but you get it right back and it has a cutpurse effect. Doesn't really hurt it that much and is $1 cheaper.

Shame there is no victory card.

The advantage Merchant Guild has over Bridge must surely be that it helps you buy expensive cards as well as cheap ones. Picking up your first KC in a Bridge deck is such a hassle (although that's all to the good), but not for Merchant Guild.

How is it not a hassle?  MG is a $5 terminal Copper on play.  You'll need to save some coin tokens before you get KC  Maybe it's easier, but it's still a hassle.  But then once you have it, KC-MG is not nearly as good as KC-Bridge.
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Robz888

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Re: Guilds is here!
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2013, 01:16:36 pm »
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What do we think about Soothsayer? Looks a lot weaker to me than Witch and Mountebank.

Probably weaker but gaining gold is very nice and doubly so in cursing games.

I think Soothsayer will be quite strong in slogs, where you really can't do too much trashing, and one extra card isn't so huge, but a Gold gainer is pretty great.

In games with strong trashing, not so great.
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brokoli

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Re: Guilds is here!
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2013, 01:17:08 pm »
+2

You know, there is another thread...
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liopoil

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Re: Guilds is here!
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2013, 01:21:23 pm »
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I really wish you could gain two cards of different costs with the stone mason on buy effect.
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Grujah

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Re: Guilds is here!
« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2013, 01:22:27 pm »
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Masterpiece is so cool!

Merchant Guild - I think this will be awesome in giant Goons engines :)

Candlesticker is boring.

Advisor is Worse-than-Lab, I don't think it is good as it is engine card and opponent can easily disrupt your engine when you use it.

Soothsayer - do you draw a card too?

Plaza should really be 3, but it is finish this way. I guess it works in village+draw engines as you can discard extra coppers to have more money for worse turns.

Taxmen - better than Mine, I guess. That doesn't say much.

Stonemason - you want cheap engine parts? He's your guy!
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Watno

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Re: Guilds is here!
« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2013, 01:23:29 pm »
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Soothsayer - do you draw a card too?
No, you don't gain a curse.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Guilds is here!
« Reply #15 on: June 13, 2013, 01:24:30 pm »
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Masterpiece is so cool!

Merchant Guild - I think this will be awesome in giant Goons engines :)

Candlesticker is boring.

Advisor is Worse-than-Lab, I don't think it is good as it is engine card and opponent can easily disrupt your engine when you use it.

Soothsayer - do you draw a card too?

Plaza should really be 3, but it is finish this way. I guess it works in village+draw engines as you can discard extra coppers to have more money for worse turns.

Taxmen - better than Mine, I guess. That doesn't say much.

Stonemason - you want cheap engine parts? He's your guy!

Plaza at $3 would be strictly better than Village.
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Grujah

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Re: Guilds is here!
« Reply #16 on: June 13, 2013, 01:25:40 pm »
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Masterpiece is so cool!

Merchant Guild - I think this will be awesome in giant Goons engines :)

Candlesticker is boring.

Advisor is Worse-than-Lab, I don't think it is good as it is engine card and opponent can easily disrupt your engine when you use it.

Soothsayer - do you draw a card too?

Plaza should really be 3, but it is finish this way. I guess it works in village+draw engines as you can discard extra coppers to have more money for worse turns.

Taxmen - better than Mine, I guess. That doesn't say much.

Stonemason - you want cheap engine parts? He's your guy!

Plaza at $3 would be strictly better than Village.

Yes, I know. It is overpriced anyway, thats the problem with Village-with-a-bonus cards (not all of them).
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GendoIkari

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Re: Guilds is here!
« Reply #17 on: June 13, 2013, 01:26:27 pm »
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So when will you be willing to buy a Copper with Merchant Guild in play to get an extra coin token? My guess is just slightly more often than you would with Goons in play, which isn't very often. Interestingly, with Goons you're more willing to do it when the game is closer to over, whereas with Merchant Guild, it doesn't work as well... at least, doing it if you think it is your last turn is pointless (though doesn't hurt you either).
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Grujah

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Re: Guilds is here!
« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2013, 01:26:41 pm »
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Soothsayer - do you draw a card too?
No, you don't gain a curse.

But you did gain a Gold. It doesn't say "each player who gained a curse draws a card" but "each player who did" who did what?
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Grujah

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Re: Guilds is here!
« Reply #19 on: June 13, 2013, 01:27:25 pm »
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So when will you be willing to buy a Copper with Merchant Guild in play to get an extra coin token? My guess is just slightly more often than you would with Goons in play, which isn't very often. Interestingly, with Goons you're more willing to do it when the game is closer to over, whereas with Merchant Guild, it doesn't work as well... at least, doing it if you think it is your last turn is pointless (though doesn't hurt you either).

Watchtower in hand!
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WheresMyElephant

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Re: Guilds is here!
« Reply #20 on: June 13, 2013, 01:29:37 pm »
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Yeah KC+Merchant Guild is nothing special (although KC could fit nicely into a deck that's been rapidly stuffed with cheap Actions from MG). I just picked KC as an example of a high-cost card because everyone's familiar with waiting a long time to be able to buy one in a Bridge game.

Merchant Guild in hand doesn't help you hit $7, but you do also have non-Merchant Guild turns after all. It can give you two Coin tokens on T3, which is as good as a Mining Village on T4 or any subsequent turn of your choice. I'm not saying it's a fast way to catapult into the $6-7 range by any stretch but if we're purely comparing to Bridge, there's no contest.
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shMerker

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Re: Guilds is here!
« Reply #21 on: June 13, 2013, 01:31:42 pm »
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Soothsayer - do you draw a card too?
No, you don't gain a curse.

But you did gain a Gold. It doesn't say "each player who gained a curse draws a card" but "each player who did" who did what?
That really doesn't seem like a very likely interpretation. You're saying the implicit part is "gained a curse or a gold" or "something". But the previous sentence just says "each other player gains a curses." It's one specific action.

Like if I said "Go to the bank and deposit this check. Then go to the store and buy milk. While you're there be sure to use your discount card." You're not going to ask what I mean by "there". It's the grocery store. You're already done with the bank.

I'm not sure I would actually say it that way in real life, but Dominion has some restrictions on how things can be stated because they have to be formatted as a linear sequence of instructions that fits on half of a playing card.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2013, 01:33:28 pm by shMerker »
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WheresMyElephant

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Re: Guilds is here!
« Reply #22 on: June 13, 2013, 01:36:21 pm »
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So when will you be willing to buy a Copper with Merchant Guild in play to get an extra coin token? My guess is just slightly more often than you would with Goons in play, which isn't very often. Interestingly, with Goons you're more willing to do it when the game is closer to over, whereas with Merchant Guild, it doesn't work as well... at least, doing it if you think it is your last turn is pointless (though doesn't hurt you either).

I've been thinking about this too. Buying 3 Coppers can guarantee you at least one Province instead of a Duchy, which is a better exchange rate than Goons's 1VP/Copper (although this comparison is more than a little dubious). It also accelerates the endgame, making the Coppers hurt less. I think it's going to be a common thing you do, although obviously it's not why you buy the Merchant Guild, if that needed to be said.
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SirPeebles

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Re: Guilds is here!
« Reply #23 on: June 13, 2013, 01:43:04 pm »
+1

So maybe these two threads should just be merged?
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sitnaltax

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Re: Guilds is here!
« Reply #24 on: June 13, 2013, 02:19:29 pm »
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What do we think about Soothsayer? Looks a lot weaker to me than Witch and Mountebank.

"Gain a Gold" is a really strong benefit; in a Cursing game the bonus card is ok but not as big a deal as a Council Room game. Also, there's a lot of space in between "pretty good" and Witch/Mountebank.
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