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Author Topic: Fan Expansion: Proletariat v2.3a  (Read 23897 times)

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plasticbrain

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Re: Fan Expansion: Proletariat v1.2
« Reply #25 on: November 22, 2011, 01:37:30 pm »
0

Squatter
Action
Cost: 0
+1 action
Return this card to the supply.
When you buy this card, you may return it to the supply immediately. If you do, each other player gains a Squatter.


EDIT: i was under the impression that you used Buys to gain cards, not to actually buy them. But the existence of Farmland in Hinterlands says that this wording is fine rules-wise.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2011, 07:15:27 pm by plasticbrain »
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Saucery

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Re: Fan Expansion: Proletariat v1.2
« Reply #26 on: November 22, 2011, 06:16:22 pm »
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i forgive you  ;D
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rinkworks

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Re: Fan Expansion: Proletariat v1.2
« Reply #27 on: November 22, 2011, 06:55:24 pm »
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I don't understand.  You're saying "buy" should be "gain," because then the card would be broken?
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plasticbrain

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Re: Fan Expansion: Proletariat v1.2
« Reply #28 on: November 22, 2011, 07:11:33 pm »
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Farmland http://dominion.diehrstraits.com/?card=farmland says i'm wrong. sorry 'bout that.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2011, 07:13:34 pm by plasticbrain »
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Jack Rudd

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Re: Fan Expansion: Proletariat v1.2
« Reply #29 on: November 22, 2011, 07:13:39 pm »
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as far as i know, no Dominion card refers to "buy"-ing another card. it always says, "when you gain this" not "when you buy this."
Check out the wording on Embargo. And, I think, Farmland.
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rinkworks

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Re: Fan Expansion: Proletariat v1.2
« Reply #30 on: November 22, 2011, 08:18:41 pm »
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as far as i know, no Dominion card refers to "buy"-ing another card. it always says, "when you gain this" not "when you buy this."
Check out the wording on Embargo. And, I think, Farmland.

Mint and Noble Brigand as well.  I think those two and Farmland are the only three that talk about buying itself.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2011, 08:22:00 pm by rinkworks »
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icesphere

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Re: Fan Expansion: Proletariat v1.2
« Reply #31 on: November 24, 2011, 12:24:55 pm »
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After playing with Squatter in a few games, I like the card, nice job designing a zero cost card that works well.
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icesphere

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Re: Fan Expansion: Proletariat v1.2
« Reply #32 on: November 26, 2011, 11:58:33 am »
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After playing more with Squatter, I actually think it should cost 1 coin. In a game without extra buys this shouldn't change anything, however in a game with extra buys I think it gives too big of an advantage to the player who buys the cards with the extra buys, and it would also avoid having a card that seems to be an automatic buy whenever you have extra buys and zero coins.
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dondon151

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Re: Fan Expansion: Proletariat v1.2
« Reply #33 on: November 26, 2011, 03:05:22 pm »
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In Goons games, too, Squatter can be brutal.
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Saucery

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Re: Fan Expansion: Proletariat v1.2
« Reply #34 on: November 27, 2011, 03:03:48 am »
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Thanks for the update. The potential for squatter wars in some games (market) is immense and something that can only be fixed by testing. Is it bad if both players recognize the strength of squatter and both go for +buy cards? Is it so dominant it trumps real curse-givers or other attacks, leading to boring mirror matches?

I dunno about 1 coin cost, because that severely warps a lot of trashers/cost-based cards like remake and upgrade.
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icesphere

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Re: Fan Expansion: Proletariat v1.2
« Reply #35 on: November 28, 2011, 09:26:43 am »
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Remake and upgrade are the only two cards I can think of that it would really affect, and even then it only makes trashing 0 cost cards worse, in which case you might avoid buying those two cards. On the other hand there are a lot of cards that have an extra buy and those cards will often be much better than similarly costed cards in a game with Squatter.
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Saucery

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Re: Fan Expansion: Proletariat v1.2
« Reply #36 on: November 29, 2011, 10:00:47 pm »
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v2.0: Most cards have been reworked or removed, their effects spread out across new cards or changed for thematic purposes.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2011, 12:10:28 am by Saucery »
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icesphere

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Re: Fan Expansion: Proletariat v2.0 (Neutral Cards)
« Reply #37 on: December 02, 2011, 11:58:04 am »
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I like the changes. Neutral cards look interesting too - seems like there are a lot of possibilities for new cards with that mechanic.
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icesphere

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Re: Fan Expansion: Proletariat v2.0 (Neutral Cards)
« Reply #38 on: December 04, 2011, 05:50:45 pm »
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After playing more with Laborer, I would modify it slightly. The main problem with it is that it is more often than not a dead card in your hand, and even with two of them you basically have a 4 card hand with +1 coin, which is often worse than a 5 card hand. I would suggest   changing it to always have the coin -   so it would be: +1 Acton, +1 coin, if there are 2 or more in play +1 card. 
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Saucery

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Re: Fan Expansion: Proletariat v2.0 (Neutral Cards)
« Reply #39 on: December 05, 2011, 05:02:17 am »
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v2.0a: Made that change to Laborer, and gave Shepherd a boost. Having played both I felt the same about Laborer (several frustrating hands) and thought Shepherd was a little slow to get going.

I need to put in some more variable cost cards, they work well with fruit tokens. Cattle tokens are a little weirder though because they only give you bonus actions half the time.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2011, 05:13:35 am by Saucery »
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Eistee

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Re: Fan Expansion: Proletariat v2.0a (Neutral Cards)
« Reply #40 on: December 05, 2011, 06:00:34 am »
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What about changing the cost of Squatter to:

(0)*
-------
*During the Buy phase, this card costs (1).

Dunno, I've been thinking about this a lot and think that this is a good solution. It might not change much, but Upgrade and Remodel would be very bad cards with Squatter around, for example.

Overall I have to see that these cards are some of the best I've seen in a fan expansion so far. I haven't played any of the cards yet, but they seem interesting and not as "forced" as some other fan expansions are. Also, I think the theme is great. Good work, keep it up!
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Saucery

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Re: Fan Expansion: Proletariat v2.1 (3 new cards)
« Reply #41 on: December 07, 2011, 05:20:03 am »
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v2.1: - Added City Planner, Mulching Machine, Archipelago
- Goodwill (+1 buy), Plantation (costs $1 less per fruit used)

Overall I have to see that these cards are some of the best I've seen in a fan expansion so far. I haven't played any of the cards yet, but they seem interesting and not as "forced" as some other fan expansions are. Also, I think the theme is great. Good work, keep it up!
;D!
I need to play with it a bit more. As a general rule I don't like bandaid clauses but it definitely covers that problem.
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icesphere

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Re: Fan Expansion: Proletariat v2.1 (3 new cards)
« Reply #42 on: December 17, 2011, 02:02:43 pm »
+1

I've updated Shepherd, Fruit Merchant, Plantation, and Cattle Farm to the new versions on my website, and also added Orchard, Goodwill, and Refugee Camp.  That makes a total of 10 Proletariat cards implemented, which means you can now play a game with all Proletariat cards.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2011, 02:42:32 pm by icesphere »
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Graystripe77

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Re: Fan Expansion: Proletariat v2.1 (3 new cards)
« Reply #43 on: December 18, 2011, 02:57:40 pm »
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I think goodwill is a bit OP. After playing a game going just Goodwill, and buying coppers when good will is in play, i was able to save up for a 5 province turn on turn 13.
Also, with the base set, chapel lab + goodwill is kinda broken:

Graystripe77   Total:63Provinces:7Duchies:7Estates:0Curses:0Cards:35Turns:13Sins:0
C1 (hard)   Total:9Provinces:1Duchies:1Estates:0Curses:0Cards:12Turns:12Sins:0
Cards
Graystripe77   1 Chapel, 9 Laboratories, 2 Coppers, 9 Goodwills, 7 Duchies, and 7 Provinces
C1 (hard)   1 Catacombs, 1 Chapel, 1 Council Room, 1 Laboratory, 1 Copper, 1 Gold, 1 Goodwill, 3 Silvers, 1 Duchy, and 1 Province
« Last Edit: December 18, 2011, 03:17:24 pm by Graystripe77 »
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Saucery

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Re: Fan Expansion: Proletariat v2.2
« Reply #44 on: December 19, 2011, 08:02:50 am »
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Goodwill definitely becomes a problem when more than one is in play. For now it's been reverted back to no +buy.

v2.2: Rancher added and Botanical Gardens changed

Quote
Rancher - Action - $6
+3 cards
You may reveal a victory card from your hand. If you do, gain a fruit or cattle token.
When you buy this card, gain an action card costing up to twice the number of cards in your hand.
This card, mulching machine, and city planner are all based on being able to buy cards using fruit tokens instead of cards. They are pretty much different variations on using or affecting the cards which are still in your hand during the buy phase.

Quote
Botanical Gardens - Victory - $6*
Worth 4 VP
When you buy this card, you may pay an additional $3 ($6). If you do, gain another (2) Botanical Gardens.
Ideally this card would be a fixed cost + $X, and the more you pay the more VP you get. Trying to balance such a card even as a thought experiment is tough and I can't think of a good way to do it, so this is my alternative.

« Last Edit: December 19, 2011, 08:11:02 am by Saucery »
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Graystripe77

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Re: Fan Expansion: Proletariat v2.2
« Reply #45 on: December 20, 2011, 05:39:43 pm »
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I've played with Goodwill some, and I think it's perfect now.
Nice design ideas btw, i love new mechanics!
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GendoIkari

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Re: Fan Expansion: Proletariat v1.2
« Reply #46 on: December 20, 2011, 05:47:00 pm »
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as far as i know, no Dominion card refers to "buy"-ing another card. it always says, "when you gain this" not "when you buy this."
Check out the wording on Embargo. And, I think, Farmland.

Mint and Noble Brigand as well.  I think those two and Farmland are the only three that talk about buying itself.

Goons also. And Grand Market. It would be rare, but you can still gain one if you have Coppers in play, you just can't buy one.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2011, 05:54:56 pm by GendoIkari »
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Saucery

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Re: Fan Expansion: Proletariat v2.2a (description edits)
« Reply #47 on: December 31, 2011, 07:29:17 pm »
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observations from playtesting:
- Fruit merchant ranges between super powerful and good when used with big money. (will most likely change it so it won't hit $6 on its own)
- $4 Shepherd is a brutally effective opener with cheap terminal drawers like courtyard and masquerade (thinking of a cost adjustment)

For those interested, icesphere has done a great job with his website http://kingdom.servegame.org where you can play dominion and playtest a number of variants including this one.
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icesphere

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Re: Fan Expansion: Proletariat v2.2a (description edits)
« Reply #48 on: January 04, 2012, 09:37:11 pm »
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Added Hooligans and removed Farmstead on my website.
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Saucery

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Re: Fan Expansion: Proletariat v2.3
« Reply #49 on: January 05, 2012, 08:21:47 pm »
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v2.3
Fruit Merchant: changed to emphasize saving for later. Able to discard non-treasure cards as well. Makes it somewhat more effective late game.
Shepherd: Bumped costs to 4 and 6. At 6 grants 2 tokens.
Mulching Machine: felt too strong when revealed more than once (in 3-4p).
Rancher: may grant a buy instead of a fruit token.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2012, 08:34:05 pm by Saucery »
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