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Author Topic: Sylas' card ideas  (Read 22564 times)

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Asper

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Re: Sylas' card ideas
« Reply #75 on: March 13, 2013, 01:58:36 pm »
0

Why have it trash at all?  Cards do not have to do so, so much.  The heart of this card is that it attacks based on the average value of your deck and your opponents' decks.  The trashing is tacked on and just adds extra power that isn't necessary.  This is already a fairly consistent junking AND a discard attack, since it comes with card draw to give you more cards.

That was one of my suggestions. It adds to the card because it increases the avarage value. As mentioned, it's just one of many options, including the +3 Cards. Considering how many fan cards offer trashing (looking at myself here, too), it might be nice to do something different, though. Probably the attack is not actually weak, but swingy. It hurts opponents who are allready behind more likely than others.
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sylas

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Re: Sylas' card ideas
« Reply #76 on: March 13, 2013, 03:24:53 pm »
+1

both really good advice and suggestions. changed to +3 Cards.

and this is why i need this forum  :)
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sylas

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Re: Sylas' card ideas
« Reply #77 on: June 15, 2013, 08:21:16 pm »
0

been a while but i'm getting back into playing this so, here are 2 new cards i've made:


Demagogue, $4, Action
+$2
Choose one: +2 Cards; or put a card from your hand anywhere in your deck.


Vagabond, $2, Action
+$1
Each other player chooses one: he gains a Curse; or he reveals his hand and discards the highest costing card in his hand.

(with Vagabond the discard can be any one of the highest cards in hand if there is more than one.)
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Sylas' card ideas
« Reply #78 on: June 15, 2013, 08:52:12 pm »
0

been a while but i'm getting back into playing this so, here are 2 new cards i've made:


Demagogue, $4, Action
+$2
Choose one: +2 Cards; or put a card from your hand anywhere in your deck.


Vagabond, $2, Action
+$1
Each other player chooses one: he gains a Curse; or he reveals his hand and discards the highest costing card in his hand.

(with Vagabond the discard can be any one of the highest cards in hand if there is more than one.)

+2 Cards, +$2 is worth 6 on its own
Vagabond should cost a lot more as well; probably at least 4.
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SirPeebles

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Re: Sylas' card ideas
« Reply #79 on: June 15, 2013, 09:14:52 pm »
+1

I assume you mean the highest cost in coins?  Or else what happens with Potion cost cards?
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sylas

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Re: Sylas' card ideas
« Reply #80 on: June 16, 2013, 06:54:03 am »
0

been a while but i'm getting back into playing this so, here are 2 new cards i've made:


Demagogue, $4, Action
+$2
Choose one: +2 Cards; or put a card from your hand anywhere in your deck.


Vagabond, $2, Action
+$1
Each other player chooses one: he gains a Curse; or he reveals his hand and discards the highest costing card in his hand.

(with Vagabond the discard can be any one of the highest cards in hand if there is more than one.)

+2 Cards, +$2 is worth 6 on its own
Vagabond should cost a lot more as well; probably at least 4.

how do you work out that it costs $6? i can't find any card as an example.

@SirPeebles
yes, in coins. i've no knowledge of Potions costs i'm afraid.
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Asper

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Re: Sylas' card ideas
« Reply #81 on: June 16, 2013, 07:04:50 am »
0

how do you work out that it costs $6? i can't find any card as an example.

@SirPeebles
yes, in coins. i've no knowledge of Potions costs i'm afraid.

Potion costs from Alchemy are something different than coins. 2$ and a Potion is more than 2$, but neither 2$P nor 4$ is more expensive than the other - it just can't be compared. Which is why "the highest costing card" can be meaningless if there are cards that cost Potions. You'd have to say "The card with the highest (coin symbol) cost".
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Sylas' card ideas
« Reply #82 on: June 16, 2013, 07:26:24 am »
0

been a while but i'm getting back into playing this so, here are 2 new cards i've made:


Demagogue, $4, Action
+$2
Choose one: +2 Cards; or put a card from your hand anywhere in your deck.


Vagabond, $2, Action
+$1
Each other player chooses one: he gains a Curse; or he reveals his hand and discards the highest costing card in his hand.

(with Vagabond the discard can be any one of the highest cards in hand if there is more than one.)

+2 Cards, +$2 is worth 6 on its own
Vagabond should cost a lot more as well; probably at least 4.

how do you work out that it costs $6? i can't find any card as an example.

@SirPeebles
yes, in coins. i've no knowledge of Potions costs i'm afraid.

I think it was in one of the secret histories. For terminal actions, money is usually better than cards, and +4 cards is a $6.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Sylas' card ideas
« Reply #83 on: June 16, 2013, 10:36:21 am »
0

Vagabond needs an attack type on it. It's a $5 card though... Well, maybe $4.
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sylas

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Re: Sylas' card ideas
« Reply #84 on: June 24, 2013, 12:12:41 pm »
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Vagabond, $5, Action-Attack
+$1
Each other player chooses one: he gains a Curse; or he reveals his hand and discards the highest costing card in coins in his hand.

i've playtested Vagabond and you guys are quite right, it's a $5. at $4 it felt too strong that everyone could buy it within the first 2 turns, and at $6 it felt too weak (we had Witch in the same game). at $5 it gets rid of useful starting Action cards or Gold a lot of the times but isn't as crippling as Torturer or Mountebank. that said, a few of these played in a row was super effective especially when the Curses ran out. having to reveal your hand before discarding is nasty too. interestingly, buying Provinces and Duchies seemed to be the perfect counter to Vagabond, and gaining that Curse mid game is often the better option. turned out to be a really fun card to play.

« Last Edit: June 24, 2013, 12:15:14 pm by sylas »
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Warfreak2

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Re: Sylas' card ideas
« Reply #85 on: June 24, 2013, 01:33:55 pm »
0

SUPPLANT, $3, Action-Attack
+1 Card, +1 Action
Each player (including you) returns a card from his hand to the Supply and gains a differently named card with the same cost that he chooses, putting it into his hand.
This would be hideously strong against Alchemist stacks. Not that that's a bad thing!
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sylas

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Re: Sylas' card ideas
« Reply #86 on: June 24, 2013, 02:34:59 pm »
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SUPPLANT, $3, Action-Attack
+1 Card, +1 Action
Each player (including you) returns a card from his hand to the Supply and gains a differently named card with the same cost that he chooses, putting it into his hand.
This would be hideously strong against Alchemist stacks. Not that that's a bad thing!

i've tested Supplant numerous times under many variations but it hasn't been very useful in any games and i've nearly abandoned the concept. i'm somewhat surprised that you seem to have found a very niche yet strong usage for it.
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scott_pilgrim

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Re: Sylas' card ideas
« Reply #87 on: June 24, 2013, 03:22:48 pm »
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Vagabond, $5, Action-Attack
+$1
Each other player chooses one: he gains a Curse; or he reveals his hand and discards the highest costing card in coins in his hand.

i've playtested Vagabond and you guys are quite right, it's a $5. at $4 it felt too strong that everyone could buy it within the first 2 turns, and at $6 it felt too weak (we had Witch in the same game). at $5 it gets rid of useful starting Action cards or Gold a lot of the times but isn't as crippling as Torturer or Mountebank. that said, a few of these played in a row was super effective especially when the Curses ran out. having to reveal your hand before discarding is nasty too. interestingly, buying Provinces and Duchies seemed to be the perfect counter to Vagabond, and gaining that Curse mid game is often the better option. turned out to be a really fun card to play.


But after Curses run out, don't you just pick gain a Curse every time?  (Like with Torturer.)  Also, I'm a little surprised that this would be not totally outclassed by Witch at $5.  (Although maybe it's because you assumed that you were forced to discard after curses ran out.)  +2 cards is probably better than +$1, even in cursing games, and the optional curse-gaining is weaker than witch's mandatory curse-gaining; you can block it with province and maybe even duchy a lot of the time.  If you're going to leave the wording as is, you may want to tweak the vanilla bonus and/or the price, so that it doesn't compare so unfavorably to witch.  Then again, that's witch, and maybe it should be weaker.  But with this and witch on the board, I think witch would almost always be preferred.

Otherwise, if you want to make the discarding forced after curses run out, you can say "Each other player may gain a Curse.  If he doesn't, he reveals his hand and discards the highest costing card in it, in coin."  But then I really think this needs a limit.  Cutpurse is the only card (I think) which can force you down to a hand size of less than 3, and Pillage and Taxman, the two discarding attacks that can make you discard something "good", only go down to 4.  I don't know how to define "good", but I feel like this should be classified as an attack that makes you discard something "good", and if it forces you to do that sometimes, then I think it needs to have a limit of 4.  But then you run into the problem of players just choosing that option every time they have only 4 or fewer cards in hand, and then dodging both that and the cursing.  I'm not really sure how to solve that problem, so I would just stick with the wording you have now (where the attack dies after curses are out), and play with the vanilla effect and price.
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sylas

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Re: Sylas' card ideas
« Reply #88 on: June 25, 2013, 11:24:23 am »
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Vagabond, $5, Action-Attack
+$1
Each other player chooses one: he gains a Curse; or he reveals his hand and discards the highest costing card in coins in his hand.

i've playtested Vagabond and you guys are quite right, it's a $5. at $4 it felt too strong that everyone could buy it within the first 2 turns, and at $6 it felt too weak (we had Witch in the same game). at $5 it gets rid of useful starting Action cards or Gold a lot of the times but isn't as crippling as Torturer or Mountebank. that said, a few of these played in a row was super effective especially when the Curses ran out. having to reveal your hand before discarding is nasty too. interestingly, buying Provinces and Duchies seemed to be the perfect counter to Vagabond, and gaining that Curse mid game is often the better option. turned out to be a really fun card to play.


But after Curses run out, don't you just pick gain a Curse every time?  (Like with Torturer.)  Also, I'm a little surprised that this would be not totally outclassed by Witch at $5.  (Although maybe it's because you assumed that you were forced to discard after curses ran out.)  +2 cards is probably better than +$1, even in cursing games, and the optional curse-gaining is weaker than witch's mandatory curse-gaining; you can block it with province and maybe even duchy a lot of the time.  If you're going to leave the wording as is, you may want to tweak the vanilla bonus and/or the price, so that it doesn't compare so unfavorably to witch.  Then again, that's witch, and maybe it should be weaker.  But with this and witch on the board, I think witch would almost always be preferred.

Otherwise, if you want to make the discarding forced after curses run out, you can say "Each other player may gain a Curse.  If he doesn't, he reveals his hand and discards the highest costing card in it, in coin."  But then I really think this needs a limit.  Cutpurse is the only card (I think) which can force you down to a hand size of less than 3, and Pillage and Taxman, the two discarding attacks that can make you discard something "good", only go down to 4.  I don't know how to define "good", but I feel like this should be classified as an attack that makes you discard something "good", and if it forces you to do that sometimes, then I think it needs to have a limit of 4.  But then you run into the problem of players just choosing that option every time they have only 4 or fewer cards in hand, and then dodging both that and the cursing.  I'm not really sure how to solve that problem, so I would just stick with the wording you have now (where the attack dies after curses are out), and play with the vanilla effect and price.

know what? I never knew that. my group have always played that if you can't perform one option, you had to choose the other. shows how much we know  ::) if that is the case, the cost of $4 could have been right to begin with. i think i prefer it with the Discard effect after Curses run out. i like your suggested wording though. maybe i could up the $ and word it like this perhaps to balance it?:

Vagabond, $6, Action-Attack
+1 Card
+$1
Each other player with at least 4 cards in hand may take a Curse. If he doesn't, he reveals his hand and discards the highest costing card in it, in coin.


this way, the attack stops at hand of 3, and the second discard is more likely to hurt if the first one didn't. bit like an optional-cursing, card-discarding Torturer/Militia with an effect that is sometimes better, sometimes worse than both. and at $6, gives other player's some time to prepare a little 'defence'.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2013, 11:31:30 am by sylas »
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scott_pilgrim

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Re: Sylas' card ideas
« Reply #89 on: June 25, 2013, 03:39:00 pm »
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That seems like it could work.  I can see it getting a little strong after curses run out, but by that time you probably have some provinces in your deck that you don't mind discarding, so it might be fine.  And it's terminal, with not much drawing, so it won't be too easy to chain them.  I think you will just have to playtest it and see how it goes.  Good luck!
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Asper

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Re: Sylas' card ideas
« Reply #90 on: June 25, 2013, 05:58:33 pm »
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Vagabond, $6, Action-Attack
+1 Card
+$1
Each other player with at least 4 cards in hand may take a Curse. If he doesn't, he reveals his hand and discards the highest costing card in it, in coin.

Isn't this worse than Witch most of the time? It becomes better as soon as the curses run out, but by then it's likely the highest costing card will be a Victory card. Also +1 Card +1$ is worse than +2$ and probably even worse than + 2 Cards, as you can't use it much for an engine that relies on Village/Draw. It might be very strong in some games, leaving some players with only Curses in hand, though, so maybe a normal 5$ would be to easy. Maybe a 5$ with restrictions? Like "In games using this, at the start of your buy phase, each other player may reveal a Curse from his hand. If anyone does, you can not buy this this turn."
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