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[Twistedarcher]

The plan only works because there I a list of flavor names 1-13. Normally the hider plan would greatly increase the risk of two night kills. Here it doesn't.

Do people even read?

If I am #13 on the list and I am flavor #10, tell me who I hide behind.  I have two legitimate answers for you which are both "correct" under your plan, and that is just one of many reasons WHY IT DOES NOT WORK.

You MAY incorrectly lynch people based on a flawed plan.  That's why I am fighting so hard.

If you bolded the plan as many have there would be no confusion.

You have yet to say why the plan is bad other than its not what hider is "supposed" to do. You get why people don't take that as gospel?

[ashersky]

Why are cops allowed? They catch scum too!

Ashersky, you are being unreasonable here. You just are. I don't see why you'd act this way as town.

Eevee, do me a huge favor.  After my flip, after the lynch, go back to Masons and Monks, and read that argument you and I had at the start of D2 (or D3, whenever it was that I said let's decide to lynch me first and then scumhunt).  Read that conversation we had about the role of VTs and town members in general in a game and how they help town win games.  We were both town that game.  We had very divergent beliefs.  But we both were doing what we felt was best to help town win this game.

[ashersky]

The plan only works because there I a list of flavor names 1-13. Normally the hider plan would greatly increase the risk of two night kills. Here it doesn't.

Do people even read?

If I am #13 on the list and I am flavor #10, tell me who I hide behind.  I have two legitimate answers for you which are both "correct" under your plan, and that is just one of many reasons WHY IT DOES NOT WORK.

You MAY incorrectly lynch people based on a flawed plan.  That's why I am fighting so hard.

If you bolded the plan as many have there would be no confusion.

You have yet to say why the plan is bad other than its not what hider is "supposed" to do. You get why people don't take that as gospel?

How does BOLD fix things, TA?

You are blinded by your own greatness.

Count 10 people, starting with me.  Guess what, I can hide behind Jimmmmm OR nkirbit.  DO YOU NOT SEE THIS??  HOW WOULD YOU KNOW?

[yuma]

Vote Count 1.8

The Singing Telegram Girl had her eyes closed. She looked like she was sleeping or dead. Either one. Either way she looked very peaceful. At she did until Mr. Green threw a glass of wine in her face. She opened her eyes with a start and a piercing glare. The rest of the crowd looked at Mr. Green in shock.

"Well, I had to stop her from sleeping" Mr. Green said.

"What made you faint my dear?" Col. Mustard said in his most sympathetic voice.

"It... it was... it was this feeling of despair. It just overcame me as I looked at his picture." The Singing Telegram Girl said pointing to a picture of yuma on the wall. It was an elegant picture of the man, the legend, the myth. He sat in a large black, plush chair. At his side he was petting a beautiful cat. You could almost hear him say "dance muppets dance!"

"That man! If he were in this room right now I would kill him!" Col. Mustard said.

Everyone gasped with surprise at the very thought. yuma was kinda a jerk sometimes and he was blackmailing them, but it wasn't worthy of death. Was it?

"If. I said if..." Col. Mustard explained.

liopoil (1): raerae,
ashersky (5): Snow, ashersky, TA, Eevee, Voltaire
Voltaire (1): Robz
chairs (1): nkiribit
nkirbit (1): shraeye
Robz (1): chairs

Not voting: (3) liopoil, mcmcsalot, Jimmmm

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
Day1 Ends in 10 days. July 22nd at 10:30 a.m. forum time.

[ashersky]

Vote: ashersky

Policy vote.

We cannot encourage intentional anti-town play. We cannot allow self-voting. That's not fun, and it does not help town win (by definition). UoS has a very good post summarizing why ash may also, in fact, be scum. Hence, my comfort in casting this vote, though it is mostly based on the fact that town does not benefit long-term by this sort of nonsense.

I've gotten enough reads out of today that I think town doesn't lose too much in this specific game, and I'm comfortable with the long-term gain.

Ash, I asked you to start playing how you'd like us to play. You didn't change your style. I cannot see how you are possibly helping town in this game if you are town.

Also, for those of you keeping track, this was an L-1 vote with NO ANNOUNCEMENT OR INTENT MENTIONED.

Add it to your scummy actions tally, folks.

[ashersky]

Vote Count 1.8

{flavor to be inserted}

liopoil (1): raerae,
ashersky (5): Snow, ashersky, TA, Eevee, Voltaire
Voltaire (1): Robz
chairs (1): nkiribit
nkirbit (1): shraeye
Robz (1): chairs

Not voting: (3) liopoil, mcmcsalot, Jimmmm

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
Day1 Ends in 10 days. July 22nd at 10:30 a.m. forum time.

You are missing someone, I think, yuma.  I was at L-2 before Voltaire.

[yuma]

I'll double check, but I believe that chairs unvoted to move to Robz so you were actually at L-3

[Twistedarcher]

The plan only works because there I a list of flavor names 1-13. Normally the hider plan would greatly increase the risk of two night kills. Here it doesn't.

Do people even read?

If I am #13 on the list and I am flavor #10, tell me who I hide behind.  I have two legitimate answers for you which are both "correct" under your plan, and that is just one of many reasons WHY IT DOES NOT WORK.

You MAY incorrectly lynch people based on a flawed plan.  That's why I am fighting so hard.

If you bolded the plan as many have there would be no confusion.

You have yet to say why the plan is bad other than its not what hider is "supposed" to do. You get why people don't take that as gospel?

How does BOLD fix things, TA?

You are blinded by your own greatness.

Count 10 people, starting with me.  Guess what, I can hide behind Jimmmmm OR nkirbit.  DO YOU NOT SEE THIS??  HOW WOULD YOU KNOW?

I don't have any problems understanding the instructions. They seem very clear to me. Not sure what my greatness has to do with this, though.

[Twistedarcher]

Voltaire, why are you policy voting now rather than 5 pages ago?

[liopoil]

Man, I would totally policy vote ashersky if I didn't want to lynch scum...

you are correct that it is a bit vague. That vagueness can be clarified really really easily. This turns the hider into a cop who dies when he gets a guilty result.

[ashersky]

I'll double check, but I believe that chairs unvoted to move to Robz so you were actually at L-3

Oh.  If that's correct, I retract my statement of scummy action by Voltaire.

[ashersky]

I don't have any problems understanding the instructions. They seem very clear to me. Not sure what my greatness has to do with this, though.

Right, you clearly understand them to mean one thing.  I may understand them to mean another.  Liopoil is also correct that it could be clarified.

The fact that it hasn't up until now though, you have to see how if I can find such a simple flaw, there must be others?

It still stands that if I am the Hider, and I follow the plan, you still don't know if I hid behind Jimmmmm or nkirbit.

[ashersky]

This turns the hider into a cop who dies when he gets a guilty result.

No, it turns the Hider into a Mod-Confirmed Results Cop who dies in exchange for the guilty result.

How many Mod-Confirmed Results roles do you know, other than Innocent Child?

[Twistedarcher]

If you are #13 on the list, and flavor #10, you would start yourself on the player roster, then count off ten. So you'd hide behind the 10th person on the sign up roster. That's how I understood it.

Ash, is your main problem with the plan itself, the discussion the plan has caused, or both?

[ashersky]

If you are #13 on the list, and flavor #10, you would start yourself on the player roster, then count off ten. So you'd hide behind the 10th person on the sign up roster. That's how I understood it.

Ash, is your main problem with the plan itself, the discussion the plan has caused, or both?

"You would start with yourself" is the key issue here.  That's how you end up at #9 or #10 on the person in the roster.  Do you include yourself in that count.  Maybe.  Either is correct.

My main problem is with having a plan.  This plan is just as bad as any other plan.  Is there a plan out there that can exploit the Hider's power?  Probably.  Is this it?  Nope.

Having the plan has led to pages and pages of talk about the plan, not about the game, or the players in the game.  Look, even I am doing it, even though I don't want to do it.  UoS wants to say I distracted from the game, but it is this plan that has.

What if the Hider doesn't want a plan?  Anyone think about that?  What if the Hider chooses not to hide at all?  Hiders aren't compulsory.  There are so many variables.  The plan is a distraction at best and destructive at worst.

[ashersky]

I will readily admit that this plan might actually work and catch scum.  I'm not even arguing that it might not be effective.  I will laugh at poor scum for that, though, as that would be quite a fail (or the Hider is awesome).

Just because it could work doesn't mean it's good.

Just like even though a number of folks agree with it doesn't make it a good plan (as TA would have you believe).  A lot of people believed in a lot of things that turned out to be terrible, terrible ideas.

[nkirbit]

Man, I would totally policy vote ashersky if I didn't want to lynch scum...

you are correct that it is a bit vague. That vagueness can be clarified really really easily. This turns the hider into a cop who dies when he gets a guilty result.

Interesting post here.  The first bit reads quite a bit scummy to me.  It's saying "If I were scum, I would do this thing (that I'm not doing and a lot of other people are doing)".  It contributes nothing to the game in terms of scumhunting, but is supposed to give you a subliminal message that Lio isn't scum, because he's not doing the scummy thing, and all these other people are scummy.  Writing a sentence that attempts to make yourself look towny and half of the other players in the game look scummy is quite impressive.

Vote: Liopoil

[ashersky]

Voltaire, why are you policy voting now rather than 5 pages ago?

Good question.

[ashersky]

Man, I would totally policy vote ashersky if I didn't want to lynch scum...

you are correct that it is a bit vague. That vagueness can be clarified really really easily. This turns the hider into a cop who dies when he gets a guilty result.

Interesting post here.  The first bit reads quite a bit scummy to me.  It's saying "If I were scum, I would do this thing (that I'm not doing and a lot of other people are doing)".  It contributes nothing to the game in terms of scumhunting, but is supposed to give you a subliminal message that Lio isn't scum, because he's not doing the scummy thing, and all these other people are scummy.  Writing a sentence that attempts to make yourself look towny and half of the other players in the game look scummy is quite impressive.

Vote: Liopoil

I feel there have been a few divergent strings of scumminess tied to liopoil so far this game.

I know one point was that he came in with a new version of the plan when the old version seemed okay to folks, and someone felt that was purposefully added confusion.  I believe shraeye had a bit about liopoil being scummy.  And there's this odd post about me (I see what you are seeing, nkirbit).

[ashersky]

Post count.  You know, since I don't contribute.

Robz - 23
raerae - 21
liopoil - 21
TA - 29
shraeye - 16
Eevee - 23
Voltaire - 45
UoS - 69
Jimmmmm - 21
nkirbit - 25
chairs - 19
mcmc - 15
ashersky - 59

[ashersky]

That includes pre-game.  I think what sticks out is that there are no obvious lurkers.  I'm also not leading the pack, which is new, although I had a late start given the weekend.

[liopoil]

Man, I would totally policy vote ashersky if I didn't want to lynch scum...

you are correct that it is a bit vague. That vagueness can be clarified really really easily. This turns the hider into a cop who dies when he gets a guilty result.

Interesting post here.  The first bit reads quite a bit scummy to me.  It's saying "If I were scum, I would do this thing (that I'm not doing and a lot of other people are doing)".  It contributes nothing to the game in terms of scumhunting, but is supposed to give you a subliminal message that Lio isn't scum, because he's not doing the scummy thing, and all these other people are scummy.  Writing a sentence that attempts to make yourself look towny and half of the other players in the game look scummy is quite impressive.

Vote: Liopoil

I don't say anything about what I would do if I was scum at all! and it also doesn't imply that other people are scummy, in fact, it implies that ashersky is towny, which he is. The post does imply that I am town, because scum does not want to lynch scum. So, you're voting me because I claimed town in a way that makes you think I am planting subliminal messages in people's brains?

Oh, yeah, you guys are getting verrrrrrry sleeeeeepy btw. forgot to say that BEFORE I start brainwashing you.

[ashersky]

This game just screeched to a halt.  What happened?

[ashersky]

There's no more than one vote of any other player but me.  That's interesting.

[chairs]

This game just screeched to a halt.  What happened?

Sorry, I had to do work, then my hour commute, then play a MUD.  I think the rest of those rereads I promised are going to have to be tomorrow