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[Powerman]

Slager!

Find edge cases where Update is better.

mumble mumble artwork mumble mumble the way he holds the hatchet mumble mumble

Assuming you meant Upgrade:  Upgrade is a cantrip.  So many times that will be better.

Probably he meant remodel...

[werothegreat]

I'm just imagining playing six Bakers and Butchering a Copper into a Province.

[SirPeebles]

So it's all optional after all.

It's not all optional. If you trash a card you have to gain another card. (And you have to gain the 2 coin tokens too, but it's never an advantage not to gain those).

Sorry, not all of it, but you still gain the tokens even if you choose not to trash a card.  That's a huge plus over Remodel, which is often dead when you have nothing in your hand worth remodeling.

[ChocophileBenj]

According to me, it's an over-powerful Remodel, like Counterfeit was an over-powerful Moneylender (or maybe Moneylender and Remodel were over-weak Counterfeit and Butcher ?) ! Because :
->it does all Remodel do, right ? (right now you trash a card costing $X and gain a card costing up to $X+$2), and it's not even mandatory !
->of course, it's by far more flexible,
->further more, if you don't want to trash anything, you can just use it as only a CT-gainer ! Maybe not that great, but if you don't want to trash anything you don't want Remodel too !

I'm sometimes frustated cards at $4 have respective equivalents so much stronger at $5 (Moneylender -> Counterfeit, Smithy -> Torturer/Catacombs, Young Witch/Sea Hag -> Witch... and Scout ) but on the other side, it's needful this way to make $5/$2 openings as strong as $4/$3 openings. Still, I think the gap between some $4 and some $5 is wide.

[WheresMyElephant]

Sorry to get a little off topic but I can't really find a better place for token chat.

Has anyone yet talked about the obvious fact that Coin tokens are a big power boost for Possession? They take all the shuffle luck out of buying Possession, and then you can spend all your opponent's Coin tokens even if you don't use the money. I guess they can prevent this by always using tokens immediately but that's pretty painful especially if they wind up wasting money. Though it's probably old news to people who play with fan cards.

Anyway yeah,  I'm going to love Butcher. I'll especially love using my starting Baker coin to Butcher an Estate into Baker; then use the coins from THAT Baker to turn my other Estates and Coppers into Bakers, then use THOSE coins to turn everything into Provinces. The Steak Sandwich Makers' guild is born! Now if we can just get some cheese on that.

[LastFootnote]

I'm sometimes frustated cards at $4 have respective equivalents so much stronger at $5 (Moneylender -> Counterfeit, Smithy -> Torturer/Catacombs, Young Witch/Sea Hag -> Witch... and Scout ) but on the other side, it's needful this way to make $5/$2 openings as strong as $4/$3 openings. Still, I think the gap between some $4 and some $5 is wide.

That's because it's much harder to get to $5 than it is to get to $4.

[GendoIkari]

Fun quote from BGG:

This is one I would definitely buy when Curses are in play. Exchanging a Curse for an Estate is worth 2 Victory points!!

Great card.

[-Stef-]

I'd say this is a pretty strong card, that I want to play in just about any engine.
...which means I always want to play it

I don't think other coin-takers in the kingdom will have a huge impact on Butchers strength.
I do really want cheap cards that I don't mind having in my deck (hamlet, pawn, pearl diver, vagrant, ...)

And opening 5-2 with fool's gold off course. If you ever thought Fool's Gold-remodel was good...

[ipofanes]

Slager!

Find edge cases where Update is better.

mumble mumble artwork mumble mumble the way he holds the hatchet mumble mumble

Assuming you meant Upgrade:  Upgrade is a cantrip.  So many times that will be better.

Talk about misuse of words.

I thought of "the card that came before Upgrade", and as a user of the package-management system apt, what comes before Upgrade? Update.

[Simon (DK)]

I'm thinking that a lot of the time it can be good to Butcher an Estate into a Silver and saving a coin. Depends on the 3$ and 4$ kingdom cards of course, but generally a good thing.

[Slyfox]

Seems like another natural comparison is to Salvager.  Salvager, due to its +1 buy, in essence allows you to do a similar sort of flexible "remodel" but allows adding whatever coin your hand generates this turn.  One difference is that Butcher has a built in more flexible "+2 coin" added on, but in exchange for being a 5-cost card rather than a 4-cost card.  And actually, Salvager has the advantage that the +1 buy can be used for a different purchase.  And Salvager isn't forced to replace the card, allowing Salvager to trash to an odd copper without needing to replace it some other card.

I think it comes down to how powerful coin tokens are in the end.  If the flexibility to save coin tokens really turns out to be key, then this card will be considered really strong.  If not, I might rather have a Salvager (not that Salvager is in every kingdom, but you know what I mean).

[Archetype]

I'm sometimes frustated cards at $4 have respective equivalents so much stronger at $5 (Moneylender -> Counterfeit, Smithy -> Torturer/Catacombs, Young Witch/Sea Hag -> Witch... and Scout ) but on the other side, it's needful this way to make $5/$2 openings as strong as $4/$3 openings. Still, I think the gap between some $4 and some $5 is wide.

That's because it's much harder to get to $5 than it is to get to $4.

I don't mind too much if a card is 'strictly better' than another card and at a slightly higher price. The card usually has something cool about it that allows you to do more tricks with it besides it just being strictly better than it's predecessor. (e.g. Butcher: Combos much better with Baker than Remodel does).

[Kirian]

My prediction I posted on BGG:

http://boardgamegeek.com/article/12505363#12505363

Butcher and baker.  We are getting a candlestick maker, right?

That will be the one that lets you overpay to buy it, turning each overpaid coin into a coin token.

My question is, will it be called "candlestick maker" to fit with the silly rhyme, or will it be "chandler" to fit with what they were actually called?

[SirPeebles]

Butcher a Squire back into a Squire, gain a Familiar/Goons/Mountebank and two coin tokens.

[LastFootnote]

My prediction I posted on BGG:

http://boardgamegeek.com/article/12505363#12505363

Butcher and baker.  We are getting a candlestick maker, right?

That will be the one that lets you overpay to buy it, turning each overpaid coin into a coin token.

My question is, will it be called "candlestick maker" to fit with the silly rhyme, or will it be "chandler" to fit with what they were actually called?

I'm hoping it's Chandler, but the two are not the same. A candlestick is a stick that holds a candle.

I doubt we'll see either, though. I'm in the process of sorting out possible names for the remaining cards.

[SirPeebles]

My prediction I posted on BGG:

http://boardgamegeek.com/article/12505363#12505363

Butcher and baker.  We are getting a candlestick maker, right?

That will be the one that lets you overpay to buy it, turning each overpaid coin into a coin token.

My question is, will it be called "candlestick maker" to fit with the silly rhyme, or will it be "chandler" to fit with what they were actually called?

I'm expecting him to go for it and say candlestick maker.

[Kirian]

My prediction I posted on BGG:

http://boardgamegeek.com/article/12505363#12505363

Butcher and baker.  We are getting a candlestick maker, right?

That will be the one that lets you overpay to buy it, turning each overpaid coin into a coin token.

My question is, will it be called "candlestick maker" to fit with the silly rhyme, or will it be "chandler" to fit with what they were actually called?

I'm hoping it's Chandler, but the two are not the same. A candlestick is a stick that holds a candle.

Details.  The guy who makes the candlestick is probably a Silversmith anyway.

... which is certainly a possible name for a card, and one that's been used in multiple fan cards.

[michaeljb]

My prediction I posted on BGG:

http://boardgamegeek.com/article/12505363#12505363

Butcher and baker.  We are getting a candlestick maker, right?

That will be the one that lets you overpay to buy it, turning each overpaid coin into a coin token.

My question is, will it be called "candlestick maker" to fit with the silly rhyme, or will it be "chandler" to fit with what they were actually called?

I'm hoping it's Chandler, but the two are not the same. A candlestick is a stick that holds a candle.

Details.  The guy who makes the candlestick is probably a Silversmith anyway.

... which is certainly a possible name for a card, and one that's been used in multiple fan cards.

Goldsmith - in your buy phase, coin tokens produce $1 more

[Slyfox]

Oh, here is a fun trick.  Butcher a copper, spend one coin token.  Gain a card costing 1 coin, which is no card in most kingdoms.   So, if you draw it without a better target, you can still trash out a copper and get a coin token out of the deal.  Might not be the right play in all cases, but might make sense in some cases. 

Edit: doesn't work, as pointed out below, it says "up to the cost", so doing the above would force gaining a zero-cost card.

[SirPeebles]

My prediction I posted on BGG:

http://boardgamegeek.com/article/12505363#12505363

Butcher and baker.  We are getting a candlestick maker, right?

That will be the one that lets you overpay to buy it, turning each overpaid coin into a coin token.

My question is, will it be called "candlestick maker" to fit with the silly rhyme, or will it be "chandler" to fit with what they were actually called?

I'm hoping it's Chandler, but the two are not the same. A candlestick is a stick that holds a candle.

Details.  The guy who makes the candlestick is probably a Silversmith anyway.

... which is certainly a possible name for a card, and one that's been used in multiple fan cards.

Goldsmith - in your buy phase, coin tokens produce $1 more

Maybe if you had to make a choice between gaining coin tokens and buffing coin tokens.

[jonts26]

Oh, here is a fun trick.  Butcher a copper, spend one coin token.  Gain a card costing 1 coin, which is no card in most kingdoms.   So, if you draw it without a better target, you can still trash out a copper and get a coin token out of the deal.  Might not be the right play in all cases, but might make sense in some cases.

Won't work. The wording is 'up to' which there are cards which cost up to $1, namely copper.

[SirPeebles]

Oh, here is a fun trick.  Butcher a copper, spend one coin token.  Gain a card costing 1 coin, which is no card in most kingdoms.   So, if you draw it without a better target, you can still trash out a copper and get a coin token out of the deal.  Might not be the right play in all cases, but might make sense in some cases.

You'd gain a card costing up to $1.  So probably just your Copper again, unless you're really eyeing a Ruin.

[shark_bait]

Don't rule out Shrubbery-maker in this expansion, we all know there's quite the market out there for shrubberies that could require a guild to organize and keep up with demand.

Edit:  I love google, put in "Shrubbery" and the first thing after the wikipedia article is this video!  Goko should take lessons from them on knowing what people actually want.

[Beyond Awesome]

Great card! You can swap out curses for copper and gain two coin tokens to save for latter. Turn estates into silvers and save a token or turn estates into a decent $2 card. This seems like a nice gainer card to me.

[Beyond Awesome]

What I am most curious about is the impact of coin tokens in Colony games.