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Author Topic: (Short) Combo: Apprentice/Market Square  (Read 5741 times)

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Titandrake

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(Short) Combo: Apprentice/Market Square
« on: June 06, 2013, 12:33:06 am »
+3

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130605/log.50a43c25e4b0addfc4f43029.1370492844375.txt

Just encountered this combo.

Here's the idea:

Get some Apprentices and a lot of Market Squares. Trash Copper/Estate, gaining Gold off Market Square.

Once you have enough Market Squares and Apprentices, do Apprentice-Gold, which should both give you some Gold off Market Squares in hand, and draw you more Market Squares/Apprentices.

By repeatedly playing Apprentice on Gold and discarding Market Squares, you can draw a ridiculous number of cards while never running out of Gold. From there, you can drive through the VP piles. It should play similarly to Apprentice/Hoard, except you don't have to spend $6 for Hoard, making it ridiculously quick.
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: (Short) Combo: Apprentice/Market Square
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2013, 02:37:04 am »
0

Awesome! Another Market Square combo. How does it compare to Market Square/Hermit?
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Titandrake

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Re: (Short) Combo: Apprentice/Market Square
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2013, 03:03:29 am »
0

In the log linked, I got 4 Provinces and 2 Duchies in 12 turns, then trash two Provinces on turn 13 to guarantee the win. However, I also had Salvager in that game, which is pretty much perfect.

With just Apprentice and Market Square, my safe guess would be 4 Provinces in 14 turns, with sometimes 13. I'd like it if someone could try it out, since I don't have any cards on Goko.
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Davio

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Re: (Short) Combo: Apprentice/Market Square
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2013, 05:46:12 am »
0

Here's AI's attempt: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130527/log.5101a6c4e4b02b7235c3860f.1369678253597.txt

I go a more traditional route with Tournament, trying to hit early Provinces and to get a lead before his engine kicks into gear. I think I planned to do something with Menagerie (I picked up a Workshop because there were many $3 cantrips), but it didn't quite pan out so in the end I just used Apprentices to speed up my own game and my deck had just enough oomph to end on the good side of the VP scale.

Afterwards AI explained that my Followers was pretty annoying.
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Lekkit

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Re: (Short) Combo: Apprentice/Market Square
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2013, 07:45:11 am »
0

I actually stumbled upon this combo not too long ago too. I think it's really powerful.

With a 2/5 split. http://dominionlogs.goko.com//20130606/log.512ba416e4b022198f05f8e2.1370518093076.txt

With a Silver/Silver opening. http://dominionlogs.goko.com//20130606/log.512ba416e4b022198f05f8e2.1370518637946.txt

And with a Silver/MS opening. http://dominionlogs.goko.com//20130606/log.512ba416e4b022198f05f8e2.1370518937763.txt

The true power of the combo is that you will get your needed share of VPs in one or two turns. And you can either buy a TON of Duchies or a bunch of Provinces, depending on how your opponent is doing. Say your opponent goes Double Jack. He hits his 4th Province on turn 14. Then you buy 6-8 Duchies. On your next turn, you grab the remaining Provinces.
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ragingduckd

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Re: (Short) Combo: Apprentice/Market Square
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2013, 07:50:00 am »
+5

Here's AI's attempt: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130527/log.5101a6c4e4b02b7235c3860f.1369678253597.txt

Lest anyone read that game and conclude that the Apprentice-Market Square combo is only marginal, here are 13 other games with it. ;)

Apprentice-MS is incredibly strong -- nearly as strong as Hermit-MS.  If you're not being attacked, you can expect to fire it off around turn 11-13.  In our game above, Apprentice enables Davio to play his Followers 4 times in 6 turns, which kept me from running App-MS the way I want to.  Even so, the combo is ready on turn 16, just one turn too late for the win.  I don't think I'd try to just ignore Tourney again, but I'll still go Apprentice-MS on almost any non-Tourney board.

Here's how I try to play it:
1. Spend the first 6-8 turns gaining Apprentices, Squares, and Gold and cleaning up your deck.
2. Stop cleaning and switch to trashing (and regaining) Gold when you have 3-4 Apprentices (or enough to draw your deck).  Gain only as much Gold as you can spend immediately and keep buying Apprentices.
3. When you opponent has gained 3-4 Provinces or is threatening to end the game on piles, take 1-2 mega-turns in which you gain all the Gold you can and either empty Provinces or take an insurmountable VP lead.

You want a bunch of Apprentices, but only as many Squares as you'll need for buys (4-5 is plenty).  There's also no need to fill up on Gold early... you're going to gain Gold like crazy during your mega-turn, and for most of the game you'd much prefer to draw App/Gold/Copper rather than Gold/Gold/Gold.

On your mega-turn, after drawing your deck, you'll have some Gold, some Squares, and a bunch of Apprentices in hand.  To maximize the Gold you can gain, discard just 3 Squares when you trash a Gold.  You'll redraw those Squares plus the 3 new Gold and repeat.  On your last apprentice, discard all your Squares and draw the resulting Gold by playing the Squares you redraw.  This is why you don't need all that many Squares... having 3 Squares means $6 in hand per Apprentice, but extra Squares add $3 each or less.

An early trasher helps a lot, both for thinning and for adding a few early Gold.  Salvager is nearly ideal, as in the OP's game, but Forager and Trade Route are almost as good.  Cheap cantrip sifters and draw cards can be valuable too.  Curses hurt bad, which is a big weakness compared to Hermit-MS.  The $5 price of Apprentice also introduces more variance, since it's easy to catch a streak of $4 hands.  I'd actually probably open Salvager/Silver in the OP's game... I want to start buying apprentices now, not after I gain a Gold and shuffle it back in.

Things are a little different in the mirror, as Gold is likely to run out.  You can't just blindly load up on Apprentices and expect the Gold and Provinces to take care of themselves.  I suspect it's better to gain Gold earlier and buy Provinces over the course of 3-4 turns instead of 1-2, but I haven't played a lot of mirrors, since few of my opponents have known the strength of the combo.  I suppose that will change shortly. :)
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