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[Watno]

At first I thought this was a great scout combo, but then I noticed the cardc you named gets discarded instead of being placed on top of the deck. Well, it would have been insanely strong if you could name estate and leave 4 of them on top, then pick them all up with scout. Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was originally topdecking, but was changed for balance reasons.

[Mr Anderson]

Are there situations where you would name Scout, so as not to draw it? I can only think of one: You've decided to throw the game. Perhaps you bet money against yourself, or something?

You already throw the game when you buy scout.

But you can look at your top four cards with your scout and decide which card you do not want to draw, so, well, this is another way the way overpowered Scout combos with Journeyman.

[werothegreat]

It is interesting how we've had three rather different art styles so far.  We have an anime girl who seems to be deathly afraid of bread, a scheming quack caught in a Dutch angle, and a couple statues from MYST.

[brokoli]

The problem is, if you have scout and journeyman in your hand there is a high probability that your journeyman will cause an unwanted reshuffle, scout missing. So I think Journeyman have a really bad influence on scout, and you should always ignore journeyman if scout is on the board.

[SCSN]

I'm not sure what elevates my mood more, the actual previews or Robz888's Scout wisdom

Robz888: you should most definitely write an ehow article entitled "How to Use the Scout in Dominion".

[brokoli]

I'm not sure what elevates my mood more, the actual previews or Robz888's Scout wisdom

Robz888: you should most definitely write an ehow article entitled "How to Use the Scout in Dominion".

Or create www.howdoesitcombowithscout.com

[Archetype]

I'm not sure what elevates my mood more, the actual previews or Robz888's Scout wisdom

Robz888: you should most definitely write an ehow article entitled "How to Use the Scout in Dominion".

Or create www.howdoesitcombowithscout.com

And it doesn't have to be restricted to Dominion cards either.

[Davio]

The reason I dislike this card is because it's strictly better than Smithy.

Okay, you could make the same argument for Torturer, but that has different uses than just drawing 3 cards.

Catacombs was already strictly better and now we have another. I don't really like cards that are strictly better because when they're both available and you happen to have an extra Copper you will almost always get the higher valued (more options) one over the lower. If your deck needs a Village and you have $4 with Worker's Village available, you can get that instead.

Now maybe this card wants to say: "I'm strictly better than Smithy, but am I worth spending your Coin token on?" Let's say you happen upon a board with these two - which is unlikely enough as it it is - and you have a 4/3 split with a Coin token from Baker. Would you really get this instead of Smithy or save your token and just get the Smithy?

Also, cards that are strictly better just show a designer getting lazy. I get that it's difficult designing 200 different cards, but come on, this is an expansion with just 13 card slots, why give us this? I guess this is Guild's Harvest...

[jonts26]

The reason I dislike this card is because it's strictly better than Smithy.

Okay, you could make the same argument for Torturer, but that has different uses than just drawing 3 cards.

Catacombs was already strictly better and now we have another. I don't really like cards that are strictly better because when they're both available and you happen to have an extra Copper you will almost always get the higher valued (more options) one over the lower. If your deck needs a Village and you have $4 with Worker's Village available, you can get that instead.

Now maybe this card wants to say: "I'm strictly better than Smithy, but am I worth spending your Coin token on?" Let's say you happen upon a board with these two - which is unlikely enough as it it is - and you have a 4/3 split with a Coin token from Baker. Would you really get this instead of Smithy or save your token and just get the Smithy?

Also, cards that are strictly better just show a designer getting lazy. I get that it's difficult designing 200 different cards, but come on, this is an expansion with just 13 card slots, why give us this? I guess this is Guild's Harvest...

I have no problem with a bunch of cards being strictly better than smithy for the same reason I have no problem with a bunch of cards being strictly better than village. I want a decent number of games to have terminal draw. This adds it with it's own small twist. But even so, the price difference between $4 and $5 is pretty significant. In games with both this and smithy and engine potential, I see getting some Journeymans (Journeymen?) and some smithies, just because the opportunity cost.

[SirPeebles]

I'm not sure what elevates my mood more, the actual previews or Robz888's Scout wisdom

Robz888: you should most definitely write an ehow article entitled "How to Use the Scout in Dominion".

Or create www.howdoesitcombowithscout.com

And it doesn't have to be restricted to Dominion cards either.

Behold as Scout removes grass stains from pants, mold from bread, and cilantro from salsa!

[kn1tt3r]

The reason I dislike this card is because it's strictly better than Smithy.

That's just as true as saying Worker's Village (or ANY other $4 village) is strictly better than Village. Because yeah, they are... if you ignore the cost.

[Davio]

It's not that I don't like similar cards, I support your claim that a decent number of games should have terminal draw, I just don't like that these $5's are just Smithy+.

Would they have drawn 2 cards and given another "bonus" (like Ghost Ship for instance), or 4 cards and a penalty (like Council Room) I may have liked them better.

I would just have liked to see more variation, because I think there's a lot of room to explore.

[werothegreat]

The reason I dislike this card is because it's strictly better than Smithy.

Okay, you could make the same argument for Torturer, but that has different uses than just drawing 3 cards.

Catacombs was already strictly better and now we have another. I don't really like cards that are strictly better because when they're both available and you happen to have an extra Copper you will almost always get the higher valued (more options) one over the lower. If your deck needs a Village and you have $4 with Worker's Village available, you can get that instead.

Now maybe this card wants to say: "I'm strictly better than Smithy, but am I worth spending your Coin token on?" Let's say you happen upon a board with these two - which is unlikely enough as it it is - and you have a 4/3 split with a Coin token from Baker. Would you really get this instead of Smithy or save your token and just get the Smithy?

Also, cards that are strictly better just show a designer getting lazy. I get that it's difficult designing 200 different cards, but come on, this is an expansion with just 13 card slots, why give us this? I guess this is Guild's Harvest...

I have no problem with a bunch of cards being strictly better than smithy for the same reason I have no problem with a bunch of cards being strictly better than village. I want a decent number of games to have terminal draw. This adds it with it's own small twist. But even so, the price difference between $4 and $5 is pretty significant. In games with both this and smithy and engine potential, I see getting some Journeymans (Journeymen?) and some smithies, just because the opportunity cost.

Having both in one game also gives you double the terminal draw cards, which is particularly useful in 4-6 player games where piles run out quite quickly.

[SirPeebles]

It's not that I don't like similar cards, I support your claim that a decent number of games should have terminal draw, I just don't like that these $5's are just Smithy+.

Would they have drawn 2 cards and given another "bonus" (like Ghost Ship for instance), or 4 cards and a penalty (like Council Room) I may have liked them better.

I would just have liked to see more variation, because I think there's a lot of room to explore.

There are tons of "+2 cards w/bonus":  everything from Moat to Nobles.  But it would be nice to see more "+4 cards w/penalty".

By the way, which category would you consider Embassy to be in?  On one hand it is net +2 cards, but with sifting selected from a large pool.  On the other hand, it is "+5 cards" with the penalty of discarding 3.  I'd probably include it in the former.

[Tables]

You can name the ace of spades if you just want to draw next 3 cards, right?

yes then you payed 5 for a smithy

You payed $5 for something that has the option to be a Smithy, or to be something different/better, when needed. Like... I dunno, Band of Misfits? Catacombs?

[brokoli]

Torturer is not strictly better than smithy because sometimes the opponent wants to discard cards (tunnel, ...), and sometimes you want the curse (fairgrounds, ...)
[/edgecase]
Seriously though, a $5 smithy can't be gained by Workshop, Ironworks, etc excepting bridge, highway and princess. A $4 is easier for 3 pile ending. Better for variety, and some other cases like Haggler, BoM or Catacombs. I think it would be less interesting to create cards it it was forbidden to design "strictly better but not at the same price" cards.

[Davio]

It's not that I don't like similar cards, I support your claim that a decent number of games should have terminal draw, I just don't like that these $5's are just Smithy+.

Would they have drawn 2 cards and given another "bonus" (like Ghost Ship for instance), or 4 cards and a penalty (like Council Room) I may have liked them better.

I would just have liked to see more variation, because I think there's a lot of room to explore.

There are tons of "+2 cards w/bonus":  everything from Moat to Nobles.  But it would be nice to see more "+4 cards w/penalty".

By the way, which category would you consider Embassy to be in?  On one hand it is net +2 cards, but with sifting selected from a large pool.  On the other hand, it is "+5 cards" with the penalty of discarding 3.  I'd probably include it in the former.

It feels like +3 cards when I play it, so I don't know, its sifting is really huge.

[jonts26]

It's not that I don't like similar cards, I support your claim that a decent number of games should have terminal draw, I just don't like that these $5's are just Smithy+.

Would they have drawn 2 cards and given another "bonus" (like Ghost Ship for instance), or 4 cards and a penalty (like Council Room) I may have liked them better.

I would just have liked to see more variation, because I think there's a lot of room to explore.

I don't think there are all that many terminal +3 cards. Smithy, Courtyard maybe, Nobles sort of, Torturer, Rabble, Margrave, Catacombs, and now Journeyman. That's only about 1 per expansion. I mean, I get your point that you want to explore more design space. But I think this card, while not super exciting, certainly does just that. 

[Davio]

I can get over it, no worries, it just seems like a waste of a card slot to put something in which isn't all that game changing, but then again, they can't all be.

[dondon151]

You guys can't imagine how offended I was when Scavenger infringed on Chancellor's design space! Grrr!

[Watno]

this silver card is really stupid. it's strictly better than copper.

[GendoIkari]

Seriously though, a $5 smithy can't be gained by Workshop, Ironworks, etc excepting bridge, highway and princess.

You forgot Quarry + Black Market!

[achmed_sender]

this silver card is really stupid. it's strictly better than copper.

Edge-case factory has found new fodder: Apothecary (and zillions of edge-cases I've in mind but don't dare to say, though  )

[Titandrake]

So, Journeyman.

In Big Money, it seems alright. Early on, naming Estate gives you 3 treasures, which is better than Adventurer, and that's a $6 card right? But seriously, Journeyman is probably going to be like Sage, in that it is awesome early on when you can avoid Estates and worse later when you have Duchies, and Provinces to dodge. Or you could name Copper, which is a good play some of the time. Need some good deck tracking to get full usage out of it.

However, in engines with low trashing it seems fantastic. If there's Estate trashing but not Copper trashing, naming Copper lets you draw 3 engine pieces. Kind of like Sage actually, now that I think about it. Although you can't guarantee the engine part you draw, you can at least get a good idea of what cards you'd want. If there's good trashing, then, well, it'll probably be more like +3 cards, but the ability to only draw terminal draw or +Actions makes it better than that. I for one really want to see Apothecary-Journeyman, because that sounds quite nice.

Definitely gets weaker with Shelters out.

[LastFootnote]

Davio, it seems like your problem is really with Smithy, rather than with all the $5 terminal cards that net you 2 additional cards in hand. If it weren't for Smithy, we'd just have a bunch of $5 terminal draw cards, none of which were "strictly" better or worse than the others. Sort of like we have Laboratory, Hunting Party, Stables, etc.

If it helps, I usually think of the Smithy as one of the "$5 terminal +3 Cards with a bonus" cards. Smithy's bonus is just the fact that it's cheaper. As others have pointed out, being $4 instead of $5 is quite significant due partly to how many gainers can gain cards costing up to $4.

Likewise, there are a bunch of +1 Card/+2 Actions cards, each of which has its own bonus. Village's bonus is that it only costs $3.