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[Voltaire]

I think town just won.

I am the jailkeeper. I jailkept Robz last night. He could not have investigated anyone.

This is worth it right? Me claiming, a 1-1 trade? That's my understanding, this is my first-ever game with a town PR on f.ds. So we'll lynch either myself or Robz today, and if it's the wrong person lynch the other tomorrow, and we've traded 1 town for 1 scum. So thinking this through...

Lynch Robz today - 1 scum, 6 town
Mafia kills tonight - 1 scum, 5 town on D3

or

Lynch Voltaire today - 2 scum, 5 town
Mafia kills tonight - 2 scum, 4 town on D3
lynch Robz on D3 - 1 scum, 4 town
mafia kills - 1 scum, 3 town on D4

That's amazing, no?

Vote:Robz888

Think it through. We also have a doctor. Do not claim. And there's a chance that I could jail the other mafia if we lynch Robz today, and maybe the doctor gets to save someone too. Huzzah!

[Robz888]

Vote: Voltaire

[Voltaire]

Vote: Voltaire

This is so much fun! I'm serious, I am having a blast right now. 

[Robz888]

I'm still trying to think this through. Obviously Voltaire is scum--well you don't know that of course, just I do--and we have a doctor or a real JK...

[Robz888]

Vote: Voltaire

This is so much fun! I'm serious, I am having a blast right now. 

It is fun! Scum 

[Voltaire]

Vote: Voltaire

This is so much fun! I'm serious, I am having a blast right now. 

It is fun! Scum 

Oh and I jailkept you because I caught your cop softclaim on D1 and figured it was so massively obvious that either you were guaranteed to draw the nightkill as town, or you were scum setting up this fakeclaim, in which case I should jail you in case you were also doing the kill. 

[Robz888]

Vote: Voltaire

This is so much fun! I'm serious, I am having a blast right now. 

It is fun! Scum 

Oh and I jailkept you because I caught your cop softclaim on D1 and figured it was so massively obvious that either you were guaranteed to draw the nightkill as town, or you were scum setting up this fakeclaim, in which case I should jail you in case you were also doing the kill. 

Softclaim??? If I did that it was unintentional. What was it?

[Eevee]

Oooooh!

Well, you can put me into believing Voltaire - camp, as a first impression anyways. This is why I thought scum shouldn't fakeclaim right off the bat - it can go very badly for them.

Note: If both have 50% of being scum, lynching Robz is better, because Voltaire's narrative has a doctor that could stay hidden.

[Robz888]

Oooooh!

Well, you can put me into believing Voltaire - camp, as a first impression anyways. This is why I thought scum shouldn't fakeclaim right off the bat - it can go very badly for them.

Note: If both have 50% of being scum, lynching Robz is better, because Voltaire's narrative has a doctor that could stay hidden.

Such thinking is what you, ashersky, and yuma used to win Mean Girls with that fake claim.

[Voltaire]

Note: If both have 50% of being scum, lynching Robz is better, because Voltaire's narrative has a doctor that could stay hidden.

Yep - even though I'm the jailkeeper, I didn't prevent the kill! I assume, or else Robz would know it would be horrible to claim cop with an investigation if he knew he was jailkept when his kill didn't go through. Which means I think the doctor must have saved someone! Which is just hilariously perfect 100% awesome amazing luck for town and I'm giddy.

And Robz? It was this:

I mean I can elaborate more, I don't think it helps matters if I do, though. I'd have to really, really think yuma is scum to want to lynch him on Day 1. He's a really valuable player if he is town. And I think we will have better evidence regarding his alignment on a later day.

PPE: a new post.

[Robz888]

I mean I can elaborate more, I don't think it helps matters if I do, though. I'd have to really, really think yuma is scum to want to lynch him on Day 1. He's a really valuable player if he is town. And I think we will have better evidence regarding his alignment on a later day.

PPE: a new post.

That was not intended as a softclaim at all, but I don't blame you for thinking it was.

I do blame you for being scum, scum!!!

[Voltaire]

That was not intended as a softclaim at all, but I don't blame you for thinking it was.

I do blame you for being scum, scum!!!

[chairs]

Well, I guess I get to find out if it's hat-eating time, then.

Vote: Robz

[yuma]

Alright... well this wasn't a scenario I had imagined, but that is ok.... Before this I had a townread on Voltaire and a scummier read on Robz.... So I am inclined to believe Voltaire at this point.

Robz (if he is scum) claiming w/o checking in with others is a bit risky... but! here is one thing I alluded to but didn't mention in my earlier post.

We as a group knew there was at least a doc or a JK. Right? So there is only a 33% chance of their being a cop to begin with. 66% chance that there isn't which is pretty good odds for a scum to try and claim and think they can probably get away with it...

So were we lucky that voltaire had JKed robz and that Robz didn't think that scenario was likely or didn't even think of it... or did voltaire fakeclaim. That ultimately is the real question. If voltaire is mafia why would he fake claim? Because I think it is kinda risky, maybe even more risky for him to fakeclaim that it would be for scum!robz to fakeclaim.

Yeah, I lean toward voltaire being true, but want to reread both to see how their posts measure up to this...

[yuma]

lio I know you are looking at this thread and have been for the last ~15 minutes... did your partner just fakeclaim and you are panicking about how to react to them.

[Eevee]

The thing is, this is 100% in line with how robz plays scum. Remember the day 1 bus on Frisk in that one blitz game? He absolutely loves making
super bold and risky moves as scum. Voltaire on the other hand, while good at this game, just came back from a long break, would be scum for the first time (supposedly would value his life a not and not be willing to risk epic failing like this). Also his claim doesn't make much sense for scum.. he gets robz lynched and dies himself day 3, leaving town with 3 townies one scum situation with an almost 50% chance of there still
being a jk/doc alive (and that's assuming both scum kills go through, which might not happen).

Yeah, the claim fits Robz's mo and he had more to gain. I'm thinking robz scum 80% voltaire scum 20%.

[Voltaire]

The thing is, this is 100% in line with how robz plays scum. Remember the day 1 bus on Frisk in that one blitz game? He absolutely loves making
super bold and risky moves as scum. Voltaire on the other hand, while good at this game, just came back from a long break, would be scum for the first time (supposedly would value his life a not and not be willing to risk epic failing like this). Also his claim doesn't make much sense for scum.. he gets robz lynched and dies himself day 3, leaving town with 3 townies one scum situation with an almost 50% chance of there still
being a jk/doc alive (and that's assuming both scum kills go through, which might not happen).

Yeah, the claim fits Robz's mo and he had more to gain. I'm thinking robz scum 80% voltaire scum 20%.

Hey, that was ZM2, the first and only game I ever modded! Y'know, the horrifically broken one with 3 cops. 

To be fair, I was scum once on f.ds in a game I completed (the crazy one where everyone was a comic/tv show character...I replaced Frisk and was Draco Malfoy but had to continue Frisks's Jubilee fakeclaim). We lost.

I was also scum on f.ds in Robz's Courtyard Masquerade, the game with 39,302 people whose size made me leave f.ds mafia (which was horrible of me, and I am so sorry for disappearing Robz, that was not cool of me).

Just so everyone has the same info. I don't mean to be hurting my own case here, I'm just honestly so so so so so giddy at the fact that town jailkept one mafia and doctored the target of the other on D1  and I'm game to just shoot the breeze for now.

I honestly don't have much more to say at this point. Let's try to find Robz's scum partner, but otherwise, you can decide which of the two of us/which of the two claims you trust more. I'll hang back for now. If you have any questions for me ask and I'll answer.

[Voltaire]

I don't mean to be hurting my own case here, I'm just honestly so so so so so giddy at the fact that town jailkept one mafia and doctored the target of the other on N1  and I'm game to just shoot the breeze for now.

*corrected

[Eevee]

One thing to discuss: If Robz flips scum, what do you think of me? He claimed to have a town result on me, would he do that if I was his partner?

[Voltaire]

One thing to discuss: If Robz flips scum, what do you think of me? He claimed to have a town result on me, would he do that if I was his partner?

I currently think it's Robz giving the easiest result to make up and get trusted.

On the other hand I remember a game where scum!Frisk fakeclaimed cop and cleared his partner (Jorbles).

So for now I'm continuing my town read on you, and think I would when Robz flips scum...so basically a null read from that info (that he cleared you)?

[mail-mi]

Wow. Just, wow. If volt is telling the truth, the Robz would have gotten no result. But if Robz is telling the truth... Argh. I'm gonna reread them both later and see what I come up with.

[Eevee]

The thing is, if we lynch Robz and he flips scum, we'll be in SUCH an awesome position.

-scum already missed a night kill
-we have a hidden doctor (unless robz made a horrible blunder with his claim)
-Voltaire's jailkeeping can be used as a doctoring tool (the target can't die), as an investigational tool (the target cant kill, only one scum left) and as a blocking tool (blocking the night kill to buy as more days).

So, basically every time Voltaire jails someone and there is a kill, we know that person isn't scum.

[yuma]

Robz/Volt in summary form:

Robz:

- already mentioned that I found him scummy for his "UGHHHHHHHHHH" post day1 when he was no longer scum. Looked over the top to me and forced. Something I didn't notice before is that he gives himself an excuse to not scum hunt and have bad reads! Red flag!
- Policy vote on mcmc... not my favorite, but Robz has policy voted before (easy place to hide a vote as scum)
- his going after chairs intrigued me early. Robz has stated before that he is opposed to lynching new players day1 unless there is a really compelling case. But he pushed rather forcefully on chairs with a case that wasn't really compelling--didn't he even admitted to as much day2 when he said he couldn't even remember why he found him scummy?
- he almost comes around to sheeping me on mail-mi, but doesn't--although he voted for him (the person I still consider to be the easy mislynch) just barely in day2
- he does "sheep/follow/whatever" me onto nkirbit. I still maintain that what he did was rather similar to what he was getting frustrated with spiritbears/mcmc/mail-mi for doing. Not exactly the same! I know. But similar... Especially mail-mi, whom he ultimately votes for...
- One thing worth noting is that robz in his arguments with mcmc and sb never really comes out says "sb is scummy for sheeping" no. He always says it about mcmc instead. He doesn't really come out and say "sb is town for doing it" but I woulnd't expect him to if he is really the cop... Especially after the joth giveaway in MXVI. Points to him being cop, or having planned early on that he might claim cop and SB would be his claimed target. so if this was a fakeclaim, it was well planned.
- He also defended SB pretty early on in a rather round about way. Points to him being cop, or well planned fakeclaim again.
- except for this statement:

That the kindof uncareful thinking we are used to you promoting robz...or should I say scumrobz...

What?

What do you mean what...you only made one statement

I'm not promoting uncareful thinking.

Yes you are....as usual. Then when I point out how you're wrong (for promoting that I voted without "hearing a reason", hint: I already had my own (if you had bothered to read my interaction with lio)... you'd say, oh, that's legit....except thst if comes from me, you write it off...if it comes from someone else....different story

Right, I know that both you and mcmc have reasons, but you didn't vote until yuma signalled he was against lio--without explanation! Which is very interesting, and does not reflect well on either of you.

is the first time he lumps both of them together. A mistake? A town mistake or a scum mistake?

But there are a lot of posts where he says, mcmc is scummy or sb is probably, most likely, certainly town. It actually starts getting more and more obvious as time goes on...

One more thing about this... Robz why did you choose spiritbears... I know you gave a reaosn, but what I am asking for is why did you choose him over someone that you always have a hard time reading... (ie... me). Honestly if I think robz is cop, I would expect him to investigate me.


Voltaire:

 - he started off pushing against me from the beginning. I don't find him scummy for this as I have said before. I find it frustrating, but not scummy
 - his arguments with me from the beginning sounded like he was townie. They were heated and a bit personal (sorry!) but they felt genuine in that he wasn't tunneling me, he was pressing me, evaluating me and trying to see the other side of the picture from my point of view.
 - he was on/off with my case on nkirbit and really one of the few players that didn't just follow, but analyzed, agreed to an extent and then ultimately disagreed with it and went back to me.
 - his unvote and reread of me again read very townie. He wanted to make sure of himself and didn't want to just convince himself. He was ultimately wrong, but I can respect the time and effort, but more importantly some of the things he found were certainly valid.
 - and he has been pretty much the same day2.

Basically if voltaire is mafia I will be floored. For one he looks very townie. Second, I don't think he would feel the need to risk a fakeclaim. He is in a very good position if he is scum. I don't know who his partner would be if he is, mabye they would be in trouble... but if they are in trouble, then why would he put himself into hot water?

yeah... I gotta go with Robz here. He is scummier, his claim fits the narrative better.

Pending vote count (which I'll do really quick after I post this), I'll be voting for him...

[yuma]

Vote: Robz/b]

Voltaire (1): Robz
liopoil (1): mcmcsalot
Robz (3): chairs, Voltiare, yuma (L-2)

Not voting: mail-mi, Eevee

I believe the above is correct, and updated with my vote on Robz.

[yuma]

Fail:

Vote: Robz

Voltaire (1): Robz
liopoil (1): mcmcsalot
Robz (3): chairs, Voltiare, yuma (L-2)

Not voting: mail-mi, Eevee

I believe the above is correct, and updated with my vote on Robz.