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[SCSN]

One case where it's very good to save the coin is with Familiar, as now only 3xEstate/Shelter + Potion + Copper won't get you one. Same with Alchemist if you really want that card. Also in lots of situations with Ambassador.

[Archetype]

Really glad that this is how the tokens work. I remember testing this Farming fan expansion and it had 'Fruit Tokens' that worked exactly like this and it was so, so fun.

My initial reaction is that the starting coin token will break the game, but Donald will probably prove me wrong.

[ipofanes]

I hope we'll also see a card (possibly a Treasure?) that says something like "at clean-up, get one coin token per unspent coin".

I am quite positive about that. The number of times you can underspend to reap some later benefit is limited, I think. Every coin unspent is dead capital and a snowflake outside the snowball gathering momentum. So there should be some incentive to save coins for later.

[DG]

I'm surprised that so many people are comparing this card to a market. In money terms I'd look at it as some sort of reverse treasury, where you'd get options to back load your spending with these +1 coins whereas the treasury front loads your income with +1 coin per turn. For an engine deck you might want to amass 30 coins and then splash out with your multiple buys on a final turn to clean the province pile. In a guilds heavy kingdom you could use the baker to draw tokens and other cards to spend the tokens.

The baker might be a bit like the fortress in Dark Ages. A simple looking card but a cornerstone of the expansion set with many funky uses.

[GendoIkari]

Super-excited about the previews, but sad that Donald didn't post it here himself... has he officially left us in favor of BGG?

[Drab Emordnilap]

I'm surprised that so many people are comparing this card to a market. In money terms I'd look at it as some sort of reverse treasury, where you'd get options to back load your spending with these +1 coins whereas the treasury front loads your income with +1 coin per turn. For an engine deck you might want to amass 30 coins and then splash out with your multiple buys on a final turn to clean the province pile. In a guilds heavy kingdom you could use the baker to draw tokens and other cards to spend the tokens.

The baker might be a bit like the fortress in Dark Ages. A simple looking card but a cornerstone of the expansion set with many funky uses.

Yeah, but you would probably be better off spending those 30 coins to buy engine parts, instead of saving them all for the last turn.

[Kirian]

I think in more than 95% of the games you'll wanna use the coin token for one of the first 2 buys.

I'm going to go out on a limb and call it 99%.  Consider the possibilities:

(1) You draw $2/$5.  You can go $3/$5 or $2/$6.  Opening with Gold or Goons is going to be pretty powerful most of the time.  If there's a $5 that you'd want more than Gold (Wharf, Mountebank, etc.), well, you'd rather open Silver/$5 than $2/$5 most of the time.

The only major exceptions I can see are Hamlet/$5 and Chapel/$5, where the $5 is better than Gold.

(2) You draw $3/$4.  You can go $3/$5 or $4/$4.  If there's a power $4 on the board (Sea Hag, Tournament, etc.) then you want two of them on the first two turns, of course.  If there's no power $4, then Silver/$5 is almost always going to be better than Silver/$4: the worst possible $5 on the board is Baker, which we've already established is at least as good as Peddler (someone else can be edge-case patrol for this).

The major exception I see is Double Ambassador, but we know that Amb/$4 Cantrip (Caravan, Tournament) is usually more powerful than Double Amb, and Baker is at least as good as Caravan.

--------

While I was writing this, SCSN pointed out that Alchemist and Familiar are another set of exceptions by themselves, which I suppose should have been obvious.

[Voltaire]

I'd just like to say that, man, it's nice to be excited about Dominion again. Maybe I'll actually play it soon too! 

[achmed_sender]

The baker might be a bit like the fortress in Dark Ages. A simple looking card but a cornerstone of the expansion set with many funky uses.

The problem is, that 99% on f.ds don't know what the other cards of Guilds are like...maybe you are one of the other 1%?

[LastFootnote]

For an engine deck you might want to amass 30 coins and then splash out with your multiple buys on a final turn to clean the province pile.

I think you're going to have trouble amassing Bakers and 30 coin tokens if you're spending all of your $5 buys on what are essentially empty cantrips (because you're saving your tokens for your megaturn).

In a guilds heavy kingdom you could use the baker to draw tokens and other cards to spend the tokens.

The baker might be a bit like the fortress in Dark Ages. A simple looking card but a cornerstone of the expansion set with many funky uses.

I've said this before, but I predict there will be at most one card that allows you to spend coin tokens outside your Buy phase. Since I first said that, we learned about Butcher, which does this. I don't think it's going to be a widespread mechanic.

[GendoIkari]

So, with the extra $1 available in the opening 2 turns, can Celestial Chameleon now empty the supply by turn 3?

[Kuildeous]

My initial reaction is that the starting coin token will break the game, but Donald will probably prove me wrong.

I wouldn't think it breaks the game since everyone has the same access. The gap in players' experience may break the game as one person may spend his coin at an unwise time while the experienced player spends it at the right time, but that's true with the game in general.

I can see a problem with one player opening 4/3 while another opens 5/2. It's luck of the draw, just like it's luck when two players are going for Familiar and one of them draws $2P.

It'll shake things up, but I don't think it'll break. And if so, then Baker is just one card. Play another game.

I suspect that Baker is the only card that allows you to start with a Coin. It would be pretty crazy to have a Guilds setup where you start with 3 Coins or something.

[GendoIkari]

My initial reaction is that the starting coin token will break the game, but Donald will probably prove me wrong.

I wouldn't think it breaks the game since everyone has the same access. The gap in players' experience may break the game as one person may spend his coin at an unwise time while the experienced player spends it at the right time, but that's true with the game in general.

I can see a problem with one player opening 4/3 while another opens 5/2. It's luck of the draw, just like it's luck when two players are going for Familiar and one of them draws $2P.

It'll shake things up, but I don't think it'll break. And if so, then Baker is just one card. Play another game.

I suspect that Baker is the only card that allows you to start with a Coin. It would be pretty crazy to have a Guilds setup where you start with 3 Coins or something.

It's interesting, because it increases the amount of opening-skill dramatically, but at the same time it increases the amount of opening-luck. Because now one lucky player can open Goons/Embargo or Goons/Chapel, while another player can't. Someone can open Treasure Map/Treasure Map and hit them on turn 3, while another player misses. So it definitely adds some luck/swingyness to certain boards, but adds a lot of skill to most boards.

[Archetype]

My initial reaction is that the starting coin token will break the game, but Donald will probably prove me wrong.

I wouldn't think it breaks the game since everyone has the same access. The gap in players' experience may break the game as one person may spend his coin at an unwise time while the experienced player spends it at the right time, but that's true with the game in general.

I can see a problem with one player opening 4/3 while another opens 5/2. It's luck of the draw, just like it's luck when two players are going for Familiar and one of them draws $2P.

It'll shake things up, but I don't think it'll break. And if so, then Baker is just one card. Play another game.

I suspect that Baker is the only card that allows you to start with a Coin. It would be pretty crazy to have a Guilds setup where you start with 3 Coins or something.

The only real issue I have is players opening $4/$3 and buying two cards at the 4$ price point that are (mainly) only at that price point so you can't open with two of them.

But you do have a point. Baker is just one card and you can always just not play with it (but who in their right minds wouldn't!?)

[ipofanes]

Any comment on the artwork? Given the frosty reception of Maura's contributions I would have thought that comicky style would fall flat on most users' taste.

[Gveoniz]

I suspect that Baker is the only card that allows you to start with a Coin. It would be pretty crazy to have a Guilds setup where you start with 3 Coins or something.

That is probably true, or else it is shake it all apart.

[Watno]

The baker might be a bit like the fortress in Dark Ages. A simple looking card but a cornerstone of the expansion set with many funky uses.

I think it will be rather the opposite.. A decent card that always fits in, but there will usually be something better. I don't see the huge combo potential fortress has.

I think in most cases, Baker will decrease opening luck. 4->5 is way more significant than 5->6 in most cases.

[achmed_sender]

So, with the extra $1 available in the opening 2 turns, can Celestial Chameleon now empty the supply by turn 3?

I'm pretty sure it will be not the case. The coins provide you balance against bad luck, and the challenges of CC always have perfect shuffle luck. Maybe it's just more "realistic" to do that with the $1 extra, if you've only 99% luck  

[Archetype]

Any comment on the artwork? Given the frosty reception of Maura's contributions I would have thought that comicky style would fall flat on most users' taste.

Well it's certainly better than something I could draw... 

I prefer the more standard art, but I don't really care all that much about the artwork.

[werothegreat]

I'm surprised that so many people are comparing this card to a market. In money terms I'd look at it as some sort of reverse treasury, where you'd get options to back load your spending with these +1 coins whereas the treasury front loads your income with +1 coin per turn. For an engine deck you might want to amass 30 coins and then splash out with your multiple buys on a final turn to clean the province pile. In a guilds heavy kingdom you could use the baker to draw tokens and other cards to spend the tokens.

The baker might be a bit like the fortress in Dark Ages. A simple looking card but a cornerstone of the expansion set with many funky uses.

I would compare it more to Bandit Camp, except you have a lot more control over coin tokens than Spoils, with the upshot that Spoils give more coins each.

[GendoIkari]

I think you'll be able to use your coins during Black Market buy. This is being debated on BGG, and people here seem to just be saying you can't; but I disagree. Yes Donald said "during your buy phase," but it didn't sound like he was quoting rules. He was just explaining the basic mechanic. The rules also say you can only play Treasure cards during your buy phase, but Black Market allows you to break that rule by playing them anyway. I'm pretty sure it will work the same for coin tokens, but we'd have to wait for Donald to Weigh in, or for the official rules to clarify.

[DG]

I think you're going to have trouble amassing Bakers and 30 coin tokens if you're spending all of your $5 buys on what are essentially empty cantrips (because you're saving your tokens for your megaturn).

Maybe you'd like to think about an Altar/hamlet opening?

[Beyond Awesome]

Super-excited about the previews, but sad that Donald didn't post it here himself... has he officially left us in favor of BGG?

I think he got tired of all the complaints and whining about Goko.

[Watno]

Donald said on BGG that you can't spend coin tokens for BM.

[Watno]

"I think you're going to have trouble amassing Bakers and 30 coin tokens if you're spending all of your $5 buys on what are essentially empty cantrips (because you're saving your tokens for your megaturn)."

Maybe you'd like to think about an Altar/hamlet opening?

Let's play it through roughly.
Turn 3/4: Trash something for baker, buy a baker (and that's lucky)
Turn 5/6: Play two bakers, buy one more baker, gain another baker with Altar
Turn 7/8: Play 4 bakers, gain 3 more
Gain a province every turn from here on.

Doesn't sound too bad.