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Author Topic: 5/2 vs 2/5  (Read 3273 times)

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Asklepios

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5/2 vs 2/5
« on: May 31, 2013, 08:42:34 am »
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(Considered presenting this as a Puzzle/Challenge, but as I don't know the answers myself I thought General Discussion better)

In what circumstances / kingdoms is a 5/2 draw better than a 2/5 draw?

In what circumstances / kingdoms is a 2/5 draw better than a 5/2 draw?


This came up, because a friend of mine pointed out that my 5/2 draw was as good as his 2/5 draw, whereas I believed the advantage to be his, from the kingdom we had in play.

Interested to see what answers you all come up with.
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Mr Anderson

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Re: 5/2 vs 2/5
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2013, 08:51:07 am »
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2/5 with a random online kingdom with Dark Ages cards is better, as you know whether you start with Shelters or Estates.
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Watno

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Re: 5/2 vs 2/5
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2013, 08:53:10 am »
+1

at least on Goko, the log shows wether shelters are in the game or not.
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Asklepios

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Re: 5/2 vs 2/5
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2013, 09:04:06 am »
+1

Hadn't considered that! Since isotropic went down I've only been playing real life games of Dominion.

Good one, though.

I realised I forgot to say why my game I felt 5/2 wasn't as good.

I was the first player, and I had 5/2, he was second player with 2/5.

Cards included Torturer, Lighthouse, Witch, IGG, Moat, Hamlet, Watchtower.

I went IGG / Lighthouse. He went Hamlet / IGG.

My argument here was that when I played my 5 he already knew I hadn't got a torturer or witch, so there was no need for him to buy a Lighthouse. In contrast, I had to play my $2 without knowledge of which $5 option he was going to go for, so I felt I should buy a Lighthouse anyway.

Arguably Witch was a better choice anyway, of course...

« Last Edit: May 31, 2013, 09:05:10 am by Asklepios »
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Kirian

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Re: 5/2 vs 2/5
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2013, 09:05:15 am »
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Nomad Camp is otherwise a good purchase, and no good $5s on the board.  I'd rather have a shot at an effective 4/3 opening than a 2/4 opening.

If both Mandarin and Inn are available and are good purchases, I'd rather have 2/5 with a guarantee of having both on T4.
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DG

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Re: 5/2 vs 2/5
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2013, 09:16:01 am »
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If an opponent buys a noble brigand you would rather be looking at an opening 5 coin hand than a 2 coin hand.
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shark_bait

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Re: 5/2 vs 2/5
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2013, 10:16:22 am »
+1

Ill-Gotten Gains.

The 5/2 is absolutely advantageous here as it guarantees the curse going in before the first reshuffle.  Mind you, this is also a little bit of P1 advantage, but if I'm player two, I'm sure hoping for the 5/2 to keep the playing field even.
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heatthespurs

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Re: 5/2 vs 2/5
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2013, 10:17:14 am »
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My argument here was that when I played my 5 he already knew I hadn't got a torturer or witch, so there was no need for him to buy a Lighthouse. In contrast, I had to play my $2 without knowledge of which $5 option he was going to go for, so I felt I should buy a Lighthouse anyway.


But your IGG gives him curse before his reshuffle, where his IGG doesn't. This is a big advantage.

I think this is an interesting game that has both 1st and 2nd player advantage
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Emeric

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Re: 5/2 vs 2/5
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2013, 11:05:10 am »
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With Inn in the supply, 5/2 is better. You'll may have 5/3

If you are 2nd player and there is a smuggler in the supply, 5/2 is better. In the turn 3, Your opponent have a chance to smuggle your $2 cards and not your $5 !
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Awaclus

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Re: 5/2 vs 2/5
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2013, 11:41:15 am »
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Usually 2/5 tends to be better than 5/2, because your $5 purchase is often more difficult to decide than your $2 purchase (which will in many cases be nothing or the only $2 in the kingdom) and with the $5 hand coming last, you know more about your opponent's strategy when the time comes to decide on your $5.
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eHalcyon

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Re: 5/2 vs 2/5
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2013, 12:00:44 pm »
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With Inn in the supply, 5/2 is better. You'll may have 5/3

If you are 2nd player and there is a smuggler in the supply, 5/2 is better. In the turn 3, Your opponent have a chance to smuggle your $2 cards and not your $5 !

Inn is not a good opener and would be a waste of a $5 start. Almost always I would prefer Silver. With no actions yet, you waste the on-gain and you have no need for +actions anyway.


Eh, I guess I'd there are no better $5s or $4s, Inn/Silver is usually better than Silver/$2.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2013, 12:01:58 pm by eHalcyon »
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soulnet

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Re: 5/2 vs 2/5
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2013, 12:06:57 pm »
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Eh, I guess I'd there are no better $5s or $4s, Inn/Silver is usually better than Silver/$2.

I don't think so, because the Silver on the first case (and also the Inn) will miss half a shuffle because after playing Inn in T2 you will reshuffle before buying the Silver. If there are no better $4 or $5 the game is probably going to be BM and an Inn is not going to do much good on a BM game, and getting the only Silver delayed one turn possibly can (I'm not sure though, but the case in which you would test BMU against BM+Inn seems soooo edgy that we will probably never know).
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eHalcyon

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Re: 5/2 vs 2/5
« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2013, 12:10:51 pm »
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Err, I should have said Inn/$3, in the case that there are terminal $3 you want to spam... Say Swindleror maybe Oracle. Something where you'd want the actions... Or maybe Tunnel.

But yeah, Inn is very rarely a good opener.
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Just a Rube

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Re: 5/2 vs 2/5
« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2013, 04:23:21 pm »
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With Inn in the supply, 5/2 is better. You'll may have 5/3

If you are 2nd player and there is a smuggler in the supply, 5/2 is better. In the turn 3, Your opponent have a chance to smuggle your $2 cards and not your $5 !
But if you go 2-5 with Inn, you can top-deck your $2 (assuming its an action). That guarantees it won't miss the shuffle.
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PSGarak

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Re: 5/2 vs 2/5
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2013, 06:08:57 pm »
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Embassy works the opposite of Ill-Gotten Gains. As Player 1 it doesn't make a difference, as Player 2 you prefer 2/5 so that the Silver misses the reshuffle.
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