Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[WanderingWinder]

Well, the point I was trying to make was just: Given 9 kingdom cards, you would likely pursue the same strategy with Upgrade as a 10th card as with Junk Dealer as the tenth. Of course the details of the strategy would be different, but you wouldn't be: Ooh, it's just JD instead of Upgrade, guess I have to go with BM now!

Right. And I agree that this is usually the case, but the number of cases I will change my strategy significantly because it's one card vs. the other aren't negligible. Off the top of my head, I'd guess maybe 10% of boards featuring one of the two cards?

[brokoli]

Well, the point I was trying to make was just: Given 9 kingdom cards, you would likely pursue the same strategy with Upgrade as a 10th card as with Junk Dealer as the tenth. Of course the details of the strategy would be different, but you wouldn't be: Ooh, it's just JD instead of Upgrade, guess I have to go with BM now!

Poor house ! ^^

[Jeebus]

One of the best uses for Junk Dealers (probably two of them): A Menagerie engine, with +buy ideally. Upgrade would work too, but it's better getting the coin early than the Estate>Menagerie. Menageries don't usually do much until you get a few different cards and get rid of some Coppers. I just played a game like this. It was fast enough that I didn't even get time to trash the last couple of Coppers, with two JDs.

[dondon151]

The comparison vs. Upgrade in that situation swings both ways. JD gets you something for trashing Coppers. Upgrade increases your deck diversity faster by trashing Estates to $3s. It's even better when there are $3s other than Menagerie or good $4s that you can buy.

[terminalCopper]

After some playing tests, some discussions and due to forum feedback, I had to realize that an article about Junk Dealer should be very different from mine ... i tried it again (see above), what do you think?

Meanwhile, some of your postings gave me an idea why Junk Dealer is probably an underrated card.

One is the comparison with oasis. It is true, that in the actual move the effect is very similar - but what about the all-important difference between trashing and discarding? If this difference was mostly negligible, a Moneylender would be similar to a duchess ... trashing, even slow trashing, is very important, isn't it? Just look at the terrible strength of Masquerade-BM...

Another reason is, that +coin is heavily misjudged. ipofanes compares JD's trashing-part to Lookout, which is imho a good idea -  but i don't like the thesis that +coin barely justifies a $2 markup, as +coin means a vanilla peddler for free. I have recently read the "Dominion Fan Card Creation Guide" in this Forum, where +coin is considered to raise card costs by $2 or $3.

Both makes me think: Is Junk Dealer on position 32 of 61 in Qvist ranking (i would roughly expect it on pos. 20), because "slow trashing" and "+coin" are the most underrated abilities?

[Warfreak2]

I have never thought Oasis and Junk Dealer to be very similar. Oasis discarding a Copper in the middlegame, when your green cards are sparse, is just a blank cantrip; Junk Dealer lets you spend the Copper and also remove it from your deck. But in the endgame, Oasis can discard Provinces, while Junk Dealer is usually a dead card - though colliding them is nice because you can trash one of them.

And then there's slogs:
- With cursers and looters, Junk Dealer is great (especially against Sea Hag because you can trash that Curse immediately), all the way through the game. Even in the endgame, there are probably still a few cards hanging around that you're happy to trash - leftover Curses and Ruins, but also your Sea Hag which is now a Ruined Spy, or your Cultist which is now an Overgrown Smithy.
- But with Gardens/Silk Road slogs, Oasis is far better. Trashing is antithetical when you want to keep all of your junk.

Oasis/Tunnel was mentioned, but this is actually one situation where it is quite similar to Junk Dealer - with Market Square.

[DG]

One is the comparison with oasis. It is true, that in the actual move the effect is very similar - but what about the all-important difference between trashing and discarding?

You buy a junk dealer for the trashing, yes. That's pretty much given. However when you're considering it for the trashing it's useful to also consider the likely income from your hands as well. Put the trashing and oasis comparison together and you see that after trashing a couple of estates your oasis-type card might be in a deck where an oasis is little value, discarding/trashing coppers for +1 coin.