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[synpax]

1) Get your boot on the other guy's neck.
2) Double down on boots.
3) Win.

[RTT]

1.)care to allways have more points then your opponent in the last turn
2.) win

[heron]

1) Rebuild.

[Archetype]

1) Piledrive Governors

[sudgy]

1. Win.

[Just a Rube]

More in line with the OP:

1. "Hey! Look over there!" followed by "What? No, I always had those colonies in my deck."

2."You are getting very sleepy...very sleepy...you wish to piledrive Scout..."

[mail-mi]

1. Piledrive Scout Provinces

[sudgy]

More in line with the OP:

1. "Hey! Look over there!" followed by "What? No, I always had those colonies in my deck."

One time somebody accidentally put the curses we weren't using in the game into his deck...

[Schneau]

1. Read forum.dominionstrategy.com

[Awaclus]

Almost always the best strategy depends on the kingdom.

[markusin]

1) Don't do what Insanity Wolf does (unless the corresponding edge case is present).
2) Formulate an actual game strategy.
3) Chapel/Mountebank.
4) End the game when you are ahead in victory points (those Goko adventure stars aren't worth it).

[Titandrake]

1) Don't do what Insanity Wolf does (unless the corresponding edge case is present).
2) Formulate an actual game strategy.
3) Chapel/Mountebank.
4) End the game when you are ahead in victory points (those Goko adventure stars aren't worth it).

Masq/Masq slightly beats Chapel/Mountebank according to the sim. The Masq player never buys Chapel or Mountebank, and the Chapel player never buys a Masq, so take it with a grain of salt.

Edit: But if the Chapel/Mount player picks up a 2nd Mountebank, they start winning again. Hm.

[markusin]

Masq/Masq slightly beats Chapel/Mountebank according to the sim. The Masq player never buys Chapel or Mountebank, and the Chapel player never buys a Masq, so take it with a grain of salt.

Edit: But if the Chapel/Mount player picks up a 2nd Mountebank, they start winning again. Hm.

According to the sim, Workshop/Gardens crushes a Chapel/Mountebank opening that tries to just go BM (even worse with 2 Mountebanks), and it seems there's only so much the Mountebank player can do to increase their odds with Gardens buys of their own. That's with the Gardens player discarding the curse to the Mountebank.

So...almost always the best strategy I guess.

[Synthesizer]

1) kidnap opponent's wife and/or children
2) photograph kidnapped subject while holding them at knifepoint with phone
3) play until opponent appears to be winning
4) grab phone, browse to picture, show to opponent
5) win
6) clean up the game by putting all kingdom, treasure and victory cards in the respective slots in the box, putting the box on its respective position on the shelf, executing all witnesses, and taking forensic countermeasures when disposing of the corpses.

[Davio]

KC-KC-Goons-Masq

[Robz888]

Adventurer. Scout. Thief.

DON'T BUY!

(Transmute gets exempted because hey, sometimes you draw $1P or $0P.)

[Titandrake]

Adventurer. Scout. Thief.

DON'T BUY!

(Transmute gets exempted because hey, sometimes you draw $1P or $0P.)

Thief/Gardens is nice in 4 player games, and in base only games it shows up fairly often.

[Davio]

Thief against Chapelled decks can be pretty nice, and of course in multiplayer where you are more likely to hit a Silver or Gold (or better).

[dudeabides]

Almost always the best strategy for winning? 
Don't play against:
Stef, Rabid, Wandering Winder, SheCantSayNo, Andrew Iannacone, Lespeutere, Jeebus, and a handful of others
The best strategy for having a good time and learning a thing or two?
Ignore my previous strategy.

[eHalcyon]

Masq/Masq slightly beats Chapel/Mountebank according to the sim. The Masq player never buys Chapel or Mountebank, and the Chapel player never buys a Masq, so take it with a grain of salt.

Edit: But if the Chapel/Mount player picks up a 2nd Mountebank, they start winning again. Hm.

According to the sim, Workshop/Gardens crushes a Chapel/Mountebank opening that tries to just go BM (even worse with 2 Mountebanks), and it seems there's only so much the Mountebank player can do to increase their odds with Gardens buys of their own. That's with the Gardens player discarding the curse to the Mountebank.

So...almost always the best strategy I guess.

Huh?  Of course Workshop/Gardens would win.  Gardens actually wants all the junk coming in, especially as you help deplete a third pile even quicker.

[liopoil]

According to the sim, Workshop/Gardens crushes a Chapel/Mountebank opening that tries to just go BM (even worse with 2 Mountebanks)

wait, all this time I've thought when rushing gardens with workshop that it is better to open workshop/workshop, and maybe if you draw 4 coppers T3 yet another workshop... is this not the case?

[eHalcyon]

According to the sim, Workshop/Gardens crushes a Chapel/Mountebank opening that tries to just go BM (even worse with 2 Mountebanks)

wait, all this time I've thought when rushing gardens with workshop that it is better to open workshop/workshop, and maybe if you draw 4 coppers T3 yet another workshop... is this not the case?

It depends on whether the opponent mirrors or not.  If the opponent also goes Gardens, then you want to scoop up Gardens asap and win the split.  If they are pursuing a different strategy, you do better in the long run with more Workshops to start.

[dondon151]

When we say Workshop/Gardens, we don't literally mean opening Workshop/Gardens.

[liopoil]

that makes sense. The context made it look like it meant opening with that because you were talking about it with mountebank/chapel, which is an opening.

[markusin]

 

that makes sense. The context made it look like it meant opening with that because you were talking about it with mountebank/chapel, which is an opening.

Yeah sorry about that. I was referring to the Workshop/Gardens bot. I wanted to compare it to the Chapel/Mountebank opening because that opening is especially deadly normally. In this match-up, Mountebank is even worse than Witch, and that seems obvious. At least the negative vp of 10 curses from a Witch more or less cancels out the decksize boost for the gardens player.

[shMerker]

At least the negative vp of 10 curses from a Witch more or less cancels out the decksize boost for the gardens player.

Oddly enough this is not necessarily the case in a multiplayer game. Since each curse on average nets G/10-1 points for the Gardens player (where G is how many Gardenses they have at the end) then if they manage to get 11 of the Gardenses then each curse nets 11/10-1 or 1/10 of a point. That is, they actually start benefiting the Gardens player at that point.

[sudgy]

At least the negative vp of 10 curses from a Witch more or less cancels out the decksize boost for the gardens player.

Oddly enough this is not necessarily the case in a multiplayer game. Since each curse on average nets G/10-1 points for the Gardens player (where G is how many Gardenses they have at the end) then if they manage to get 11 of the Gardenses then each curse nets 11/10-1 or 1/10 of a point. That is, they actually start benefiting the Gardens player at that point.

I remember I was playing Gardens and had the choice to trash a curse or end the game.  I chose to trash the curse.  At the end, I realized I would have been pushed over the next 10-card boundary and have gotten more points if I hadn't trashed the curse.  I still won, but it was funny how trashing the curse made me lose points.

[markusin]

At least the negative vp of 10 curses from a Witch more or less cancels out the decksize boost for the gardens player.

Oddly enough this is not necessarily the case in a multiplayer game. Since each curse on average nets G/10-1 points for the Gardens player (where G is how many Gardenses they have at the end) then if they manage to get 11 of the Gardenses then each curse nets 11/10-1 or 1/10 of a point. That is, they actually start benefiting the Gardens player at that point.

In multiplayer games, it's less likely that you'll even get 10 curses anyway. So long as you have less curses than Gardens, they have a chance of increasing your net score.

[shMerker]

You actually don't even need more Gardenses than Curses. If you have at least 2 Gardenses then gaining a curse will increase your score if it causes your deck-size to hit a multiple of 10.

The difference between number of Gardenses and number of Curses really doesn't matter when figuring out the impact of gaining a curse. It always adds (on average) (G/10)-1 points.

[Awaclus]

You actually don't even need more Gardenses than Curses. If you have at least 2 Gardenses then gaining a curse will increase your score if it causes your deck-size to hit a multiple of 10.

The difference between number of Gardenses and number of Curses really doesn't matter when figuring out the impact of gaining a curse. It always adds (on average) (G/10)-1 points.

But markusin's statement is true if you look at all the curses in your deck rather than an individual curse.

[markusin]

In multiplayer games, it's less likely that you'll even get 10 curses anyway. So long as you have less curses than Gardens, they have a chance of increasing your net score.

I was wrong here. In multiplayer games you're more likely to get a higher number of curses, even if you get a curser yourself. Heck, you can get above 10 curses if the other players have Moat or Trader or something. However your opponents would also curse each other, decreasing both of their chances of beating the gardens player. The curse slogs tend to be more pronounced in multiplayer games (since the average number of curses per player increases) and that tends to strengthen alt-vp strategies.

[dondon151]

I was wrong here. In multiplayer games you're more likely to get a higher number of curses, even if you get a curser yourself. Heck, you can get above 10 curses if the other players have Moat or Trader or something. However your opponents would also curse each other, decreasing both of their chances of beating the gardens player. The curse slogs tend to be more pronounced in multiplayer games (since the average number of curses per player increases) and that tends to strengthen alt-vp strategies.

No, you were right. The only possibility that you will receive >10 Curses is if Moat, Lighthouse, or Trader blocks incoming Curses for opponents or Young Witch plays get blocked by banes. Otherwise, you'll more likely receive ~7 Curses in a 3-player game if all players try to give Curses.

You do get them in your deck faster, though.

[markusin]

I was wrong here. In multiplayer games you're more likely to get a higher number of curses, even if you get a curser yourself. Heck, you can get above 10 curses if the other players have Moat or Trader or something. However your opponents would also curse each other, decreasing both of their chances of beating the gardens player. The curse slogs tend to be more pronounced in multiplayer games (since the average number of curses per player increases) and that tends to strengthen alt-vp strategies.

No, you were right. The only possibility that you will receive >10 Curses is if Moat, Lighthouse, or Trader blocks incoming Curses for opponents or Young Witch plays get blocked by banes. Otherwise, you'll more likely receive ~7 Curses in a 3-player game if all players try to give Curses.

You do get them in your deck faster, though.

This is true if you get a curser yourself, which wouldn't see many plays if you're going for a Gardens rush. In a 3 or 4 player game,  having your opponents play 10 witches combined leaves you with 10 curses and the other 10/20 split amongst themselves. If you got a curser, you'd have less curses, but then if you got a curser in a 2 player game, you'd have even fewer curses (~5).

Regardless, the lone gardens rushing player benefits in curse games as the number of players increases. Not because the gardens player gets fewer curses, but because the other players have more curses slowing them down. The same is true for other alt vp cards like Silk Roads and Fairgrounds. The multiplayer slog is a side of Dominion that we miss out on by playing mostly 2v2's.

[shMerker]

You actually don't even need more Gardenses than Curses. If you have at least 2 Gardenses then gaining a curse will increase your score if it causes your deck-size to hit a multiple of 10.

The difference between number of Gardenses and number of Curses really doesn't matter when figuring out the impact of gaining a curse. It always adds (on average) (G/10)-1 points.

But markusin's statement is true if you look at all the curses in your deck rather than an individual curse.

C(G/10 -1) is the total number of points you get (on average) from the combined total of your curses and gardens. In a deck with 3 other cards, 4 gardens and 3 curses gets you 3(4/10 -1) = -1.8. Remove the curses and you have 0 points. So no, it's not even accurate then. If the impact of one curse is negative then the impact of all curses is negative, so unless you have 11 or more Gardenses then they are all taking away points.

Again, this is all on average. The actual impact of a curse is either going to be -1 or G-1 depending on whether it pushes your decksize to the next multiple of 10.

Also all of this is comparing gaining curses to gaining nothing.