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[shMerker]

At least the negative vp of 10 curses from a Witch more or less cancels out the decksize boost for the gardens player.

Oddly enough this is not necessarily the case in a multiplayer game. Since each curse on average nets G/10-1 points for the Gardens player (where G is how many Gardenses they have at the end) then if they manage to get 11 of the Gardenses then each curse nets 11/10-1 or 1/10 of a point. That is, they actually start benefiting the Gardens player at that point.

[sudgy]

At least the negative vp of 10 curses from a Witch more or less cancels out the decksize boost for the gardens player.

Oddly enough this is not necessarily the case in a multiplayer game. Since each curse on average nets G/10-1 points for the Gardens player (where G is how many Gardenses they have at the end) then if they manage to get 11 of the Gardenses then each curse nets 11/10-1 or 1/10 of a point. That is, they actually start benefiting the Gardens player at that point.

I remember I was playing Gardens and had the choice to trash a curse or end the game.  I chose to trash the curse.  At the end, I realized I would have been pushed over the next 10-card boundary and have gotten more points if I hadn't trashed the curse.  I still won, but it was funny how trashing the curse made me lose points.

[markusin]

At least the negative vp of 10 curses from a Witch more or less cancels out the decksize boost for the gardens player.

Oddly enough this is not necessarily the case in a multiplayer game. Since each curse on average nets G/10-1 points for the Gardens player (where G is how many Gardenses they have at the end) then if they manage to get 11 of the Gardenses then each curse nets 11/10-1 or 1/10 of a point. That is, they actually start benefiting the Gardens player at that point.

In multiplayer games, it's less likely that you'll even get 10 curses anyway. So long as you have less curses than Gardens, they have a chance of increasing your net score.

[shMerker]

You actually don't even need more Gardenses than Curses. If you have at least 2 Gardenses then gaining a curse will increase your score if it causes your deck-size to hit a multiple of 10.

The difference between number of Gardenses and number of Curses really doesn't matter when figuring out the impact of gaining a curse. It always adds (on average) (G/10)-1 points.

[Awaclus]

You actually don't even need more Gardenses than Curses. If you have at least 2 Gardenses then gaining a curse will increase your score if it causes your deck-size to hit a multiple of 10.

The difference between number of Gardenses and number of Curses really doesn't matter when figuring out the impact of gaining a curse. It always adds (on average) (G/10)-1 points.

But markusin's statement is true if you look at all the curses in your deck rather than an individual curse.

[markusin]

In multiplayer games, it's less likely that you'll even get 10 curses anyway. So long as you have less curses than Gardens, they have a chance of increasing your net score.

I was wrong here. In multiplayer games you're more likely to get a higher number of curses, even if you get a curser yourself. Heck, you can get above 10 curses if the other players have Moat or Trader or something. However your opponents would also curse each other, decreasing both of their chances of beating the gardens player. The curse slogs tend to be more pronounced in multiplayer games (since the average number of curses per player increases) and that tends to strengthen alt-vp strategies.

[dondon151]

I was wrong here. In multiplayer games you're more likely to get a higher number of curses, even if you get a curser yourself. Heck, you can get above 10 curses if the other players have Moat or Trader or something. However your opponents would also curse each other, decreasing both of their chances of beating the gardens player. The curse slogs tend to be more pronounced in multiplayer games (since the average number of curses per player increases) and that tends to strengthen alt-vp strategies.

No, you were right. The only possibility that you will receive >10 Curses is if Moat, Lighthouse, or Trader blocks incoming Curses for opponents or Young Witch plays get blocked by banes. Otherwise, you'll more likely receive ~7 Curses in a 3-player game if all players try to give Curses.

You do get them in your deck faster, though.

[markusin]

I was wrong here. In multiplayer games you're more likely to get a higher number of curses, even if you get a curser yourself. Heck, you can get above 10 curses if the other players have Moat or Trader or something. However your opponents would also curse each other, decreasing both of their chances of beating the gardens player. The curse slogs tend to be more pronounced in multiplayer games (since the average number of curses per player increases) and that tends to strengthen alt-vp strategies.

No, you were right. The only possibility that you will receive >10 Curses is if Moat, Lighthouse, or Trader blocks incoming Curses for opponents or Young Witch plays get blocked by banes. Otherwise, you'll more likely receive ~7 Curses in a 3-player game if all players try to give Curses.

You do get them in your deck faster, though.

This is true if you get a curser yourself, which wouldn't see many plays if you're going for a Gardens rush. In a 3 or 4 player game,  having your opponents play 10 witches combined leaves you with 10 curses and the other 10/20 split amongst themselves. If you got a curser, you'd have less curses, but then if you got a curser in a 2 player game, you'd have even fewer curses (~5).

Regardless, the lone gardens rushing player benefits in curse games as the number of players increases. Not because the gardens player gets fewer curses, but because the other players have more curses slowing them down. The same is true for other alt vp cards like Silk Roads and Fairgrounds. The multiplayer slog is a side of Dominion that we miss out on by playing mostly 2v2's.

[shMerker]

You actually don't even need more Gardenses than Curses. If you have at least 2 Gardenses then gaining a curse will increase your score if it causes your deck-size to hit a multiple of 10.

The difference between number of Gardenses and number of Curses really doesn't matter when figuring out the impact of gaining a curse. It always adds (on average) (G/10)-1 points.

But markusin's statement is true if you look at all the curses in your deck rather than an individual curse.

C(G/10 -1) is the total number of points you get (on average) from the combined total of your curses and gardens. In a deck with 3 other cards, 4 gardens and 3 curses gets you 3(4/10 -1) = -1.8. Remove the curses and you have 0 points. So no, it's not even accurate then. If the impact of one curse is negative then the impact of all curses is negative, so unless you have 11 or more Gardenses then they are all taking away points.

Again, this is all on average. The actual impact of a curse is either going to be -1 or G-1 depending on whether it pushes your decksize to the next multiple of 10.

Also all of this is comparing gaining curses to gaining nothing.