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Author Topic: Combo: Rats/Market Square  (Read 3273 times)

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sudgy

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Combo: Rats/Market Square
« on: May 22, 2013, 10:56:42 pm »
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EDIT: I've noticed it should be a bit different, look lower to see what I say now.

I finally got Dark Ages (yay!) and the first game had Rats.  Desperately looking for a way to make them work (I've always wanted to...  ;D), I saw the Market Square.  I realized that when I trashed with the Rats I could get quite a bit of gold.  Despite the only other trashing card being the Count, I went for it.  It worked quite well.  Basically, how you do it:

1. Hopefully open Rats/Market Square.
2. Get 2-3 Market Squares, maybe a couple Silvers, and some trasher (TfB would be a bit better).
3. Play a normal Rats strategy, discarding the Market Squares as you trash.
4. Profit.

This was irl so I'm not sure how fast it was, but it felt pretty fast.  Faster than usual.


EDIT: This should be what it is:
1. Open Rats/Market Square.
2. Play Rats only if you have a Market Square (or more!) and a useless card in hand.
3. Buy Province>Gold>Market Square.  It doesn't matter how many Market Squares you have, the more the better.
4. If there is some other trashing, get it a bit of the way in, but not right away.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2013, 07:49:24 pm by sudgy »
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

eHalcyon

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Re: Combo: Rats/Market Square
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2013, 12:07:33 am »
+1

This sounds more like two combos: Rats+TfB and Market Square + Trasher. I expect tthat it would not work so well if Rats were the only trasher.
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PSGarak

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Re: Combo: Rats/Market Square
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2013, 01:04:16 am »
+1

My second-ever game with Dark Ages also had Rats & Market Square, which ended up being the majority opening, and it was pretty powerful. It works better if there is some support, but just a little bit goes a long ways. In particular, I don't think extra trashing is a necessity.

Basically, if you ignore the cantrips (Market Square), you end up with a deck composed entirely of Golds and dead cards (Rats). This is not a bad deck. It's not a great deck on its own, but it's better than it has any right to be, and you get it fast. Like, really fast. Your average hand will become 2-3 golds, and the rest dead cards. This is a decent-ish deck in its own right, but more importantly it is extremely fertile ground on which to build an amazing deck. You only need a handful of support cards, which are easy to pick up when you're usually pulling down $6+ with +buy.

Your goal is now to put together 3 Golds in one hand, and almost half your deck is gold. This is not a difficult task. If you just play like one Warehouse, or one Smithy, you should be able to hit that easily. With Adventurer (lol), it's a solid lock. You don't even need trashing, just card draw (or cycling). Trashing will help, but it's not strictly necessary. In the game I played, the only trashing was Altar, and I felt I got more mileage out of the bonus Duchies & Cultists than out of the fewer Rats.

Major caveat: The ratio of Gold to dead cards is extremely important. I was playing a 4-player game, where 3 players were doing this strategy, so we each got like 6-7 Rats before they piled, and a similar amount of gold. In a 2-player game, where you get 10 Rats to yourself, the Gold ratio drops from around one-half to around one-third and the economics start looking less awesome. This doesn't make the deck inviable, it just means it takes more support. You would probably need a trasher in that case.

An alternative would be to stick in some money-generating Cantrips. Then your goal is to generate $2 floating, and land 2 golds in hand from a deck whose non-cantrip content is half-gold. The floating $2 is probably the harder part of this task.

This is a lot of extrapolating from a small amount of experience, but I do feel like this strategy has legs.
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sudgy

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Re: Combo: Rats/Market Square
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2013, 01:38:26 am »
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I didn't even have a TfB, all I had was the Count.  And it still worked pretty well.  If the Chapel was in the game, I would have been in heaven as I could have gotten rid of my Rats quickly.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

eHalcyon

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Re: Combo: Rats/Market Square
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2013, 01:42:15 am »
+1

I didn't even have a TfB, all I had was the Count.  And it still worked pretty well.  If the Chapel was in the game, I would have been in heaven as I could have gotten rid of my Rats quickly.

Well, that's still a way to get rid of the rats.

Chapel is fast enough that you could probably skip Rats entirely. Chapel can trigger Market Square too.
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serakfalcon

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Re: Combo: Rats/Market Square
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2013, 02:47:57 am »
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Quote
I didn't even have a TfB, all I had was the Count.  And it still worked pretty well.
Count works great with rats. I trashed all my rats in one turn that way :)
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AdamH

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Re: Combo: Rats/Market Square
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2013, 10:47:52 am »
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It works?!

This debate is still going on between Nick and I. I think what he played was Vault/Market Square with Rats as support (it's a trasher, right) and my junking just enabled him.

I do not believe Rats/Market Square by itself is a thing.
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Kirian

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Re: Combo: Rats/Market Square
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2013, 11:13:33 am »
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Rats always requires another trasher or strong sifting support.  Otherwise you've just replaced a dead card with a dead card.  A few Golds from MS seems unlikely to do enough.
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Schneau

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Re: Combo: Rats/Market Square
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2013, 11:35:46 am »
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Rats always requires another trasher or strong sifting support.

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Awaclus

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Re: Combo: Rats/Market Square
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2013, 12:07:01 pm »
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Rats always requires another trasher or strong sifting support.


How good exactly is Scrying Pool and Rats?
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gman314

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Re: Combo: Rats/Market Square
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2013, 12:09:12 pm »
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It seems to me that as long as you're drawing useful actions as well, it would be pretty good.
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Schneau

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Re: Combo: Rats/Market Square
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2013, 12:12:13 pm »
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I don't think I've ever played Rats + Scrying Pool, but it seems that if there's a good Scrying Pool engine besides a lack of trashing, that Rats would work nicely. But, I don't know how well it actually works in practice.
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Combo: Rats/Market Square
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2013, 07:36:51 pm »
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Rats always requires another trasher or strong sifting support.



Also Vineyard
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sudgy

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Re: Combo: Rats/Market Square
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2013, 07:46:54 pm »
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I did a bit more testing, and a couple things I noticed:

1. The more Market Squares, the better.  If the only thing worthwhile you can buy is Market Square, get it.
2. It's not quite as fast as I thought.  It's a slight bit faster than BMU.
3. If you're not trashing the Rats, never trash something with the Rats unless you have a Market Square in hand.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

AdamH

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Re: Combo: Rats/Market Square
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2013, 08:40:40 am »
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Rats always requires another trasher or strong sifting support.



Also Vineyard

I've tried Rats/Vineyard before. IT REALLY needs support to work. If I'm correct about it, Rats can serve as (probably late-game) support to power up Vineyards.
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