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[liopoil]

of course, logic>reads any day. but we don't have any logic right now

yes there is. talking beforehand forces spies to commit and lets the resistance talk to each other and come to a more unanimous decision. 6 collective brains is better than 6 separate ones.

However, I just realized how it could help spies. for instance:

say mail-mi and I are both resistance. spies want to reject this proposal, and would vote against it. However, they see that everyone else says they are going to vote for the proposal. They then decide to vote for it as well because they can't win the vote anyway.

So yes, agreed, just submit your votes to shraeye and we'll talk about it later. I've sent mine in.

[shraeye]

Ok, thread locked.  Each player now must PM me on whether to accept/reject the following team proposal:

mail-mi and liopoil

For this mission to continue as proposed, a majority of people must accept it.  That means 4+ players.

[shraeye]

Someone correctly pointed out that it makes sense to keep the thread open to allow continual discussion.  We are still in the mission accept/reject phase.  Deadline for that phase is in 8 hours from this post; I'll dream up what to do if somebody misses a deadline, but let's try to avoid that scenario, ok?

[liopoil]

Hi guys! vote yes for team mail-mi and liopoil!

[Twistedarcher]

I will be voting no as I'm not on the mission.

[liopoil]

woah. you know, if everyone went with that we'd never get a mission passed. The only way you are going on a mission this round is if we reject mail-mi and me and one of jimmmmm, arch, or munch wants you to go, and people agree to that.

[TheMunch]

Boy, I didn't think that much could actually happen in a page.  Love playing with people that are into this stuff.  I played last night and the results of which I'm not to pleased with, if only because people weren't having as much fun as I was.

That said, last night was the first time I played and I was resistance and his self proposal for the first mission was exactly what I did as resistance.  There were actually reasons why I did it though in game and I was deciding whether I wanted to make a similar "put myself out there proposal" this game, but I think one person chomping at the bit should be enough to at least get some things going.  TA is someone that I would be the most comfortable putting on our team.

MM is someone that I'm a little uncomfortable about.  Half of me says he "oh drats I guess we're all spy" joke (about how little information resistance has) feels insincere.  Yet, Archetype and Liopoil both also shared similarly town vibes on TA.  I'm trying to decide whether or not MM's proposal excluding TA is something a spy or resistance would do:

I think, almost certainly he is going to put himself on the mission, because why wouldn't he (resistance will always put themselves on the mission because thats one less person they have to choose that isn't a spy, and spies will try to act like resistance).  But if he is a spy, and assuming for the moment that myself and others are getting a correct feeling about TA, he should be more than pleased to throw a towny looking guy on his mission.  He could either sabotage the mission and try to wrack up some suspicion, or not sabotage and and earn himself some town points.

However, I feel like resistance is going to care less about trying to manipulate the opinions of the rest of the town.  His disregard reads almost resistance to me.

So now given that I feel kind of uncomfortable about mail-mi (he could go either way to me) I would rather avoid the mission hes on.

This might all be a completely off base approach from someone with very little experience but its my reasoning, and would love to know if it makes sense or just feels incredibly off base.

[mail-mi]

I will be voting no as I'm not on the mission.

Can someone other than me see the obvspy in this?

[liopoil]

I do not think TA is resistance, in fact, he is my top "spy-read".

I will be putting myself on my mission proposal. I will put whoever I think is the most likely to be resistance of the other players. Right now I have nullreads on jimmmmm, arch, and munch, and spyreads on mail-mi and TA, TA moreso.

[liopoil]

That said, I am voting yes on this mission because my spy read on mail-mi isn't particularly strong, and I know that I'm resistance. Also, I know that if mail-mi is indeed spy then I will know he is spy if he sabotages the mission.

[mail-mi]

I will be voting no as I'm not on the mission.

Can someone other than me see the obvspy in this?

[liopoil]

a thought: if we put both spies on a mission they have a problem: if they both sabotage they lose because we know who they are, and they can't talk to choose who sabotages...

[liopoil]

that said, let's try not to do that.

yes, mail-mi, I do think that sounds like spy. It is a reason, but for any mission to pass people are going to have to vote for missions that they aren't on.

[Twistedarcher]

I do not think TA is resistance, in fact, he is my top "spy-read".

I will be putting myself on my mission proposal. I will put whoever I think is the most likely to be resistance of the other players. Right now I have nullreads on jimmmmm, arch, and munch, and spyreads on mail-mi and TA, TA moreso.

If mail-mi and myself are the spies, do you really think mail-mi would nominate us both to go on the same mission?

In the first round, I almost always reject missions I'm not on. For two reasons:

1) I'm resistance, and any mission I am on has a better chance of failing. I know it's pedantic, but I have no reason to trust any of you, and every reason to trust myself. I want missions to pass.

2) The more proposals we have, the better, as there's more information to gain. If we have four people accept this mission on the first try, that's a lot less information to analyze. I think that while my position might be a bit extreme (it has frustrated people in RL too), accepting the first proposed mission because "we're going to have to accept one anyone" helps the spies more than it helps the resistance. The spies are probably going to pass the first mission if they're on it, so we won't get any analysis from the votes. Especially without plot cards, we REALLY need to analyze voting patterns to try to get some sense of who's a spy, and I feel that accepting a mission I'm not, and speeding up the process, makes it harder for me to do that.

Is your spy read from me really just coming from the fact that I'm not passing a mission I'm not on?

[Archetype]

I'm voting no for the same exact reason as TA.

[liopoil]

Okay, that is valid. my spyread is unrelated to that, and it isn't strong. it's  based off the thing about how you're last and therefore should be chosen that's suspicious. and yes, I realize that both spies and resistance want to be chosen.

[liopoil]

Although, it seems that if we're rejecting missions we aren't on, it's just gonna be themunch's choice. or are we going to start considering missions we aren't on in later proposals?

[liopoil]

Still haven't heard from Jimmmmm, granted it hasn't been too long.

[liopoil]

Actually, yes, I completely agree with arch/TA and would do the same in their position. I've never played this game before, still getting the hang of it 

[Twistedarcher]

Although, it seems that if we're rejecting missions we aren't on, it's just gonna be themunch's choice. or are we going to start considering missions we aren't on in later proposals?

It's not unusual for the first mission to go all the way down to the wire..

I'd be happy to consider another mission if theres a reason, but I don't really think I have any reason to think that you're both resistance. Chances are I won't have any reason to vote yes on a mission I'm not on, at least not in the first round.

Plus, TheMunch has now stated that he'd be more willing to put me on a mission than anyone else, so I think I'd accept his mission..

Although maybe he's seeing that it'd be easier to paint me as a spy than as most other people, so he'd want to pick me to frame as a spy? Knowing that I could be likely to accept someone else's mission...

[Twistedarcher]

Actually, yes, I completely agree with arch/TA and would do the same in their position. I've never played this game before, still getting the hang of it 

No problem -- it's a fun game, I hope you enjoy it

I'll be happy to discuss theory with you after the game UNlike mafia I think it helps spies more than resistance in this game to talk about it.

[Archetype]

Oh yes, this game is great.

I'm pretty sure TA is Resistance, but that's most likely because we share similiar views. I'm most likely not going to vote yes to a mission with me in it, but I could be persuaded and will vote yes on the last mission, of course.

[liopoil]

Wait, you won't even vote yes to a mission WITH you in it?

[Twistedarcher]

Pretty sure he meant without

[Archetype]

Pretty sure he meant without

Yes that is what I meant. It'd be a little silly to vote no to every mission.