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[heatthespurs]

Yesterday I played a crazy (and painful) game which I got Saboteured 32 times in 25 turns, but still survive 

Supply: Baron, Masquerade, Menagerie, Monument, Outpost, Potion, Royal Seal, Saboteur, Scrying Pool, Talisman, and University

http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20111012-083347-5f683364.html

My opponent used University to gain 5 Saboteur by turn 11, then managed to use it 32 times in the next 14 turns, trashing from my hand:
7 Menageries, 5 Monuments, 5 Silvers, 4 Golds, 3 Masquerades, 3 Potions, 2 Barons, 1 Province, a Duchy, 1 Outpost

I don’t think I played well, especially after being heavily Saboteured mid-way through the game which I start losing track of what is in my deck (except knowing that all my 7 Menageries are gone!). Scrying Pools saves me somewhat, being non-Sabouterable

When I can finally buy some Province, I manage to buy/gain the last 4 Saboteurs to end this painful painful game.

I don’t know what I can conclude from this game. Maybe Saboteur is really not a good card? Or just my opponent has been playing badly? Or I am lucky?

[guided]

Saboteur is really not a good card

[Anon79]

and both of you overlooked Outposts.

[DG]

That's a typical university kingdom where using the university to collect terminal actions forces you to buy more universities to play the terminal actions which means your deck gets entirely clogged up and cycles really slowly. Your opponent might have seen more success with more scrying pools, fewer universities, playing fewer saboteurs more often.

Also quite typically of universities, there is a power engine in that deck waiting to come out but it's hard to get right. 95% of the players on isotropic wouldn't play it well enough to beat masquerade+treasure. 95% of the players on isotropic can play masquerade+treasure well if they actually choose to do so. (My statistics are entirely made-up of course).

[guided]

Yeah, Masquerade/Potion aiming for a Scrying Pool engine might be a serviceable way to go here, though the lack of good +Buys worries me. Outpost might be enough to make up for it. You probably need a Baron, and you probably need Universities too (which doubly worries me). The prospects for beating Masquerade + Treasure look dim to me.

[WanderingWinder]

Monument/money should beat masquerade/money, I think, though there's a good chance a combination that of both is even better.

[Geronimoo]

DG already built a decent bot in the Simulation thread for this. There's a bug in the University code, but it looks like you might be able to crush Masquerade-treasure by building a mega engine with multiple Universities, Scrying Pools, Saboteurs, Monuments and 1 Outpost (crush = 80-20). Only problem is that the Masquerade player might be able to empty 3 piles to counter this, but that's hard to simulate.

[matt979]

That reminds me, I meant to post http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20111010-080126-b432c329.html (but I was only saboteured 17 times).  Turn by turn it felt like he should be able to crush me some sort of Vault-Library-Vault-Library accordion, but he never got the most out of it.

#1 matt979: 29 points (3 Provinces, 8 Estates, and a Duchy); 19 turns
         opening: Silver / Silver
         [24 cards] 2 Vaults, 1 Remodel, 7 Coppers, 2 Golds, 8 Estates, 1 Duchy, 3 Provinces

#2 zeminith: 7 points (a Province and an Estate); 19 turns
          opening: Remodel / Warehouse
          [63 cards] 10 Villages, 9 Libraries, 8 Saboteurs, 8 Universities, 5 Vaults, 5 Warehouses, 3 Harvests, 3 Woodcutters, 1 Remodel, 7 Coppers, 2 Potions, 1 Estate, 1 Province

----------------------

trash: 4 Provinces, 5 Golds, 3 Warehouses, 3 Duchies, 2 Silvers, and 2 Estates