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[Morgrim7]

Yes, but when is any strategy that involves Scout optimal? 

[RTT]

in games where you have weak players that you dont want to discourage by your mountebank chapel strategy 

[Morgrim7]

Then open Scout/Curse, and end it on Estates, Scouts, and Curses.

[RTT]

nah then they will get that i am just playing with them 

[Asper]

depends on the board 

Im not sure. Is there a solid BM strat where opening Concubine/Concubine is better than Silver/Silver or anything else?

I didn't mean opening only Concubine. More like Concubine/Smithy.

[GendoIkari]

I suppose. Surely not BM, though?

Oh definitely not. Silver is as close to strictly better for an opener to this as you can get.

[Asper]

I suppose. Surely not BM, though?

Oh definitely not. Silver is as close to strictly better for an opener to this as you can get.

Are you sure? Drawing Estate, Concubine, 3 Coppers is worth as much as Estate, Estate, Silver, 2 Coppers. With the replacing of Estates you don't have the chance to get to 6$, but you'll more surely ge to 5$. You'll never have 3 Estates, Silver and Copper. I admit that two 5$ turns are usually worse than a 6$ and a 2$, though.

[GendoIkari]

I suppose. Surely not BM, though?

Oh definitely not. Silver is as close to strictly better for an opener to this as you can get.

Are you sure? Drawing Estate, Concubine, 3 Coppers is worth as much as Estate, Estate, Silver, 2 Coppers. With the replacing of Estates you don't have the chance to get to 6$, but you'll more surely ge to 5$. You'll never have 3 Estates, Silver and Copper. I admit that two 5$ turns are usually worse than a 6$ and a 2$, though.

When I typed that, I got confused and was thinking of original HH, without the on-buy effect.

[dondon151]

Are you sure? Drawing Estate, Concubine, 3 Coppers is worth as much as Estate, Estate, Silver, 2 Coppers. With the replacing of Estates you don't have the chance to get to 6$, but you'll more surely ge to 5$. You'll never have 3 Estates, Silver and Copper. I admit that two 5$ turns are usually worse than a 6$ and a 2$, though.

2 $5 turns are much better than $6/$2 unless the $6 is like, BV and there's a good $2 in the kingdom.

On a money board I would definitely open with this card twice on a 4/3. I wouldn't open with it or even buy it on an engine board unless there's nothing better at $2 or $3, which granted, isn't that uncommon.

[Asper]

Are you sure? Drawing Estate, Concubine, 3 Coppers is worth as much as Estate, Estate, Silver, 2 Coppers. With the replacing of Estates you don't have the chance to get to 6$, but you'll more surely ge to 5$. You'll never have 3 Estates, Silver and Copper. I admit that two 5$ turns are usually worse than a 6$ and a 2$, though.

2 $5 turns are much better than $6/$2 unless the $6 is like, BV and there's a good $2 in the kingdom.

On a money board I would definitely open with this card twice on a 4/3. I wouldn't open with it or even buy it on an engine board unless there's nothing better at $2 or $3, which granted, isn't that uncommon.

I was thinking of the "better one good & one bad turn than two mediocre ones"-rule when i wrote that, but you are right of course. 2 5$s can't actually be called "mediocre"... Well, you don't really get two 5$s by opening Concubine, more like a guaranteed 5$/4$ split on rounds 3 and 4, which still is quite good.

[ahyangyi]

By the way, you probably want to buy this over Silver with a hovel at hand...

[Asper]

By the way, you probably want to buy this over Silver with a hovel at hand...

Actually with the on-gain-trashing Hovel is the only Shelter that works with Concubine...

[eHalcyon]

By the way, you probably want to buy this over Silver with a hovel at hand...

Actually with the on-gain-trashing Hovel is the only Shelter that works with Concubine...

Hm? Buy Concubine, trash Hovel because you bought a VP, then trash Overgrown Estate to Concubine's on-gain and draw a card.

[Morgrim7]

You can only trash an Estate or Copper with Concubines on gain affect.

[RTT]

with a hand of 4C and Hovel you can trash copper and Hovel . But than you are sacrificing your 4$ purchase.

[Morgrim7]

Maybe you could add a clause that lets you trash Coppers in play?

[RTT]

Concubine3$ ver. 4

worth 1$
1 VP
_____________
when you gain this you may trash a copper ,an estate or a shelter from your hand or from play
Victory-Treasure

[eHalcyon]

You can only trash an Estate or Copper with Concubines on gain affect.

Oops, I thought I responded to this, but I didn't.

I had meant to say: "But Overgrown Estate is still an Estate. "

It isn't, of course.

[Morgrim7]

I like the new version.

[RTT]

When I told my girlfriend about the card idea, she liked it as well very much and wanted to instantly play with this card. 

*succes*

to bad i hadnt allredy designed it.

[Asper]

I think being able to trash a Copper in play might take it too far, but that's just a hunch.

[NoMoreFun]

A card I made in another thread explores this concept:

Serf (formerly known as Scout Hall)
Action/Victory - $4
+1 Action
+$1
Reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal a Victory card. Put it into your hand, and discard the other revealed cards.
---
Worth 1VP

It self combos, but that self combo jams once you start buying victory cards. However it essentially does "remove" an estate (by drawing it whenever you play the card), and it adds to your cycling. early on.

[sudgy]

A card I made in another thread explores this concept:

Serf (formerly known as Scout Hall)
Action/Victory - $4
+1 Action
+$1
Reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal a Victory card. Put it into your hand, and discard the other revealed cards.
---
Worth 1VP

It self combos, but that self combo jams once you start buying victory cards. However it essentially does "remove" an estate (by drawing it whenever you play the card), and it adds to your cycling. early on.

Just seeing the word "Scout" made me shiver...

[NoMoreFun]

A card I made in another thread explores this concept:

Serf (formerly known as Scout Hall)
Action/Victory - $4
+1 Action
+$1
Reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal a Victory card. Put it into your hand, and discard the other revealed cards.
---
Worth 1VP

It self combos, but that self combo jams once you start buying victory cards. However it essentially does "remove" an estate (by drawing it whenever you play the card), and it adds to your cycling. early on.

Just seeing the word "Scout" made me shiver...

The card's strictly better than neither Scout nor Great Hall.