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[xeiron]

This is completely false.

Chairs gave you the paper N1. You'd combine it N1. You'd use the power N2.

Either your nights work differently than mine do, or you are lying to prove a point.

I do not have the doublevote yet, so I am not sure of how it works but I think it is this way.
Chairs gave me the paper N1. I'd combine it N1. I can now use the power, but the 'using power stage' of N1 has passed. I can use it D2 since doublevoting is a daypower.

[Twistedarcher]

This is completely false.

Chairs gave you the paper N1. You'd combine it N1. You'd use the power N2.

Either your nights work differently than mine do, or you are lying to prove a point.

I do not have the doublevote yet, so I am not sure of how it works but I think it is this way.
Chairs gave me the paper N1. I'd combine it N1. I can now use the power, but the 'using power stage' of N1 has passed. I can use it D2 since doublevoting is a daypower.

But you don't have the doublevote!

So you're see how "We can't be the scumteam because we'd have doublevoted" is an invalid defense?

[xeiron]

Someone controlling a double vote and not using it does not make them insta-town, btw.

No, but a possible scumteam controlling enough votes to insta-win, and realizing they do so, and still not using it is insta-not-the-scumteam.

[Twistedarcher]

Someone controlling a double vote and not using it does not make them insta-town, btw.

No, but a possible scumteam controlling enough votes to insta-win, and realizing they do so, and still not using it is insta-not-the-scumteam.

Or they haven't all been online at the same time, or don't want to coordinate it and risk an unvote that would out them as the scumteam.

Basically, what you're saying here, is that either Ahoppy is scum (since scum would have no incentive to double vote hammer), or Shraeye and Chairs are both town (since they would have no incentive to double vote hammer)

[xeiron]

This is completely false.

Chairs gave you the paper N1. You'd combine it N1. You'd use the power N2.

Either your nights work differently than mine do, or you are lying to prove a point.

I do not have the doublevote yet, so I am not sure of how it works but I think it is this way.
Chairs gave me the paper N1. I'd combine it N1. I can now use the power, but the 'using power stage' of N1 has passed. I can use it D2 since doublevoting is a daypower.

But you don't have the doublevote!

So you're see how "We can't be the scumteam because we'd have doublevoted" is an invalid defense?

So you think that chairs, as my scumpartner, would not have told me what paper is used for? Or do you think I would guess wrong just for the hell of it?

[Twistedarcher]

Well I really think, judging by what we know about powers, that having gotten paper D1, there's no way you'd be able to doublevote until D3.

But I suppose you have a point about not knowing what paper does. You could just be lying, though

[chairs]

Well I really think, judging by what we know about powers, that having gotten paper D1, there's no way you'd be able to doublevote until D3.

But I suppose you have a point about not knowing what paper does. You could just be lying, though

Would you like me to tell you exactly how paper works (at least, by itself)?  Would that be of assistance to town, or scum?

Obviously I'll need multiple people to weigh in.

[xeiron]

Someone controlling a double vote and not using it does not make them insta-town, btw.

No, but a possible scumteam controlling enough votes to insta-win, and realizing they do so, and still not using it is insta-not-the-scumteam.

Or they haven't all been online at the same time, or don't want to coordinate it and risk an unvote that would out them as the scumteam.

Basically, what you're saying here, is that either Ahoppy is scum (since scum would have no incentive to double vote hammer), or Shraeye and Chairs are both town (since they would have no incentive to double vote hammer)

They could have coordinated in their QT N1. This discussion we are having now would be nothing new to such a scumteam. No need to wait a week into D2.

I have already stated quite clearly that I think Chairs is town.

And yes, I think that Ahoppy is scum, and/or Shraeye is town. I just don't know witch yet.

[Twistedarcher]

Someone controlling a double vote and not using it does not make them insta-town, btw.

No, but a possible scumteam controlling enough votes to insta-win, and realizing they do so, and still not using it is insta-not-the-scumteam.

Or they haven't all been online at the same time, or don't want to coordinate it and risk an unvote that would out them as the scumteam.

Basically, what you're saying here, is that either Ahoppy is scum (since scum would have no incentive to double vote hammer), or Shraeye and Chairs are both town (since they would have no incentive to double vote hammer)

They could have coordinated in their QT N1. This discussion we are having now would be nothing new to such a scumteam. No need to wait a week into D2.

I have already stated quite clearly that I think Chairs is town.

And yes, I think that Ahoppy is scum, and/or Shraeye is town. I just don't know witch yet.

Well, not really. Because there's no way scum could have expected 3 deaths. If Ash doesn't shoot EFHW, we're left with 10 players, not 8, and there would be no quickhammering.

[Twistedarcher]

Well I really think, judging by what we know about powers, that having gotten paper D1, there's no way you'd be able to doublevote until D3.

But I suppose you have a point about not knowing what paper does. You could just be lying, though

Would you like me to tell you exactly how paper works (at least, by itself)?  Would that be of assistance to town, or scum?

Obviously I'll need multiple people to weigh in.

I think it's pretty clear already what paper does

[chairs]

Well I really think, judging by what we know about powers, that having gotten paper D1, there's no way you'd be able to doublevote until D3.

But I suppose you have a point about not knowing what paper does. You could just be lying, though

Would you like me to tell you exactly how paper works (at least, by itself)?  Would that be of assistance to town, or scum?

Obviously I'll need multiple people to weigh in.

I think it's pretty clear already what paper does

Yes, but to be clear - doublevoter is not a power you have to activate at night.  In other words, if Shraeye and I were scum, we could coordinate and hammer anybody today that got a single vote, just by voting and then doublevoting.  I'm basically convinced Shraeye is town at this point. I'm town.  Xeiron is either town or his scumteam is kicking themselves for his play.

[chairs]

(to be fair, I'm assuming in that statement that Shraeye successfully has doublevoter - but if we were scum, I'd have definitely told him to guess that, right?)

[shraeye]

Xeiron/Chairs/Eevee  is impossible.
If xeiron/chairs/Eevee is a scumteam we would just lynch someone right now as we control the five votes we need to lynch. (Chairs and I would be doublevoters). And we have the 4 votes we need tomorrow (should the NK fail) (Chairs send paper to Eevee), and the day after that, until we win. The only way to stop us would be to organize a quicklynch faster that us. That is very hard without a QT.

The same could happend for any scumteam with Chairs in it.
Fact is, there is only one possible scumteam containing Chairs. That is xeiron/chairs/Shraeye, because then all this doublevoting could just be a big lie.

Your vote on me makes me concerned, Theorel. You do not seem to worry about a quicklynch at all. Does that means you know your vote is not town on town?

The underlined portion makes it sound like you currently have double-vote, but in this quote

I do not have the doublevote yet,

You say you don't.

[Twistedarcher]

So there's a very real possibility Xeiron has doublevote and is lying about it?

[chairs]

So there's a very real possibility Xeiron has doublevote and is lying about it?

Absolutely.

[Twistedarcher]

So there's a very real possibility Xeiron has doublevote and is lying about it?

Absolutely.

Which would imply a Xeiron/Ahoppy scumteam. Nkirbit and Eevee wouldn't make sense as the third, nor Chairs, since he could doublevote as well presumably. As could Shraeye, possibly.

So Xeiron/Ahoppy/Theorel?

[Twistedarcher]

Of course, it's possible that Xeiron simply doesn't have doublevote, as he claimed.

[xeiron]

Xeiron/Chairs/Eevee  is impossible.
If xeiron/chairs/Eevee is a scumteam we would just lynch someone right now as we control the five votes we need to lynch. (Chairs and I would be doublevoters). And we have the 4 votes we need tomorrow (should the NK fail) (Chairs send paper to Eevee), and the day after that, until we win. The only way to stop us would be to organize a quicklynch faster that us. That is very hard without a QT.

The same could happend for any scumteam with Chairs in it.
Fact is, there is only one possible scumteam containing Chairs. That is xeiron/chairs/Shraeye, because then all this doublevoting could just be a big lie.

Your vote on me makes me concerned, Theorel. You do not seem to worry about a quicklynch at all. Does that means you know your vote is not town on town?

The underlined portion makes it sound like you currently have double-vote, but in this quote

I do not have the doublevote yet,

You say you don't.

I don't, but I think it is no way i would not if I was scum with Chairs.

So there's a very real possibility Xeiron has doublevote and is lying about it?

There would be nothing to stop me from lying about it, so you should assume that I can doublevote if I am scum.

[nkirbit]

Or we shouldn't assume anything if you're scum, because of course we're not going to listen to you!

Why did we claim again? 

Xeiron-Ahoppy make sense as scum partners.  Both times Ahoppy has come under pressure (day 1 him and Eevee were looking the likely wagons, day2 I just just moved my vote from Xeiron to Ahoppy) Xeiron has stepped in and redirected us elsewhere.. towards mail-mi day1, and who knows where today.  The point is, both times, we were no longer talking about Ahoppy.  Faking a cop claim on Eevee actually makes sense in this regard:  He still managed to move the discussion off of Ahoppy, but without tying himself to his scumpartner.  Of course, Eevee could be his partner too.

I'm still most sure about Xeiron, but Ahoppy is the name that makes most sense to me as a possible member of either a scumteam with Xeiron or a scumteam without Xeiron.  He's pretty much the only name that makes sense in both possibilities (Others could, obviously, but Ahoppy is the likeliest in my mind).

I would support either a Xeiron or Ahoppy lynch at this point.

And again:  Xeiron has yet to claim his "plan".  I don't necessarily want him to, but I'm still not revealing a thing.  I think we should stop claiming.

[shraeye]

I think we should stop claiming.

I strongly agree.  I was thinking in the shower just now and realized that even a MYLO mislynch doesn't automatically mean scum win, because we potentially can use protective roles successfully to buy another day.  So scum REALLY benefit from pinpointing the remaining powers that town have.  I see no reason to help them with this whatsoever.

[nkirbit]

Does anyone else think that saying "so you should assume X if I am scum" is as scummy as I do?  Or is my opinion of Xeiron permanently tainted at this point and I'm just unable to look at him objectively?

[Twistedarcher]

Does anyone else think that saying "so you should assume X if I am scum" is as scummy as I do?  Or is my opinion of Xeiron permanently tainted at this point and I'm just unable to look at him objectively?

Yes to both questions

[Twistedarcher]

More votes, less talking, people! We need to move this game forward, soft deadline isn't THAT far away, and we're not really near a lynch.

It looks like we're not going to proceed with this massclaim. We've said too much already, probably, but what's done is done.

I agree with Xeiron's assessment that Chairs is probably town from this. Giving scum doublevoter is pretty unbalanced, I think.

I don't agree necessarily that Shraeye is town, although it's probablyyy more likely. If scum has access to double-voting, they want to keep that all hushed up as possible.

I am still happy with my vote on Ahoppy. I still believe Xeiron, and by extension Eevee, are town. If I'm wrong on Xeiron, Ahoppy remains a possibility for his partner as well, as Nkirbit says.

I know we're wary of a doublevote. But people need to start getting serious opinions out there. This game is stalling hard D2, and even if we're not voting, we need to know where people stand. Soft deadline's not far away, and right now, we're not close to a lynch.

[chairs]

I feel like one of Ahoppy or theorel is on the scumteam.

I'm hard-pressed to say which is more likely.

[Twistedarcher]

I feel like one of Ahoppy or theorel is on the scumteam.

I'm hard-pressed to say which is more likely.

If Xeiron is town, which I think he is, there's a lot of scenarios where they both make sense as the scum team.

I think you and Shraeye both come off townier from the paper fiasco, so townreads on you both. I trust Xeiron, and Eevee. This leaves me with Ahoppy/Theorel/Nkirbit as the most likely team.

Probably is, I have a town read on Nkirbit. So maybe Shraeye is the scum. But maybe you're the scum. But maybe I'm just way off with Xeiron. If I'm wrong with Xeiron, I'm making looking at Xeiron/Eevee/?, or Xeiron/?/?, which are both filled by Ahoppy and/or Theorel in a lot of cases.

Of course, maybe I'm giving you and Shraeye way too much townread for the paper thing. It would be unbalanced for you to have a doublevote as scum, but you DID keep it hidden for awhile, and it wasn't your doing that unveiled it. That's unlikely, I think, but it's possible.

But yes, I think you're correct when you say that Ahoppy/Theorel are both possible in a lot of scenarios as scum.

You may be hard-pressed to say which is more likely, but it's good to have that out there. Or would you support lynches on both of them? Or only one of them? We need to get this game moving, beyond massclaiming.