Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Twistedarcher]

My reads:

mail-mi -- I liked his re-read of Xeiron, and he does seem like he's been more active and trying to catch people. The sheeping is there, but it probably always will be, regardless of alignment. Some scummy stuff, but like everyone says, mail-mi is scummy, as scum or town. Everytime he's been scum, though, there's been HUGE red flags, and I haven't seen any HUGE red flags, just slightly scummy stuff. Given what he's been doing with scumhunting this game, I really do think hes town.

Raerae -- Nothing has really made me think she's scum whatsoever, town read here.

These two are the most problematic.  The raerae bit got plenty of talk.

You honestly feel like mail-mi has been MORE active than usual?  I'll do a post count soon, but man, I think you are way off base there.

What scum hunting has he done?  One re-read, of Xeiron.  That's it.  He's sheeped a few votes, made a few one-liners.  One of my posts at the end of my re-read was going to be "so what's the case on TA again?"

But your odd defense of mail-mi is freaking me out.

When is the last time that mail-mi, D1, went and made a case on a player unprovoked? I've never seen him do this.

[Twistedarcher]

TA, what scumhunting has mail-mi been doing?  I don't recall anything in particular that wasn't a resaying of something somebody else had already said.

Mostly the Xeiron stuff. It's unlike him to go and read someone D1 and form his own opinions, whens the last time you saw that happen? I'm also probably tilted by the fact that he made the same point about Xeiron regarding the "exactly 3 scum" that I saw, which I think was a really really good point.

Oh look, someone else called you out on it.  To quote you:

"...he does seem like he's been more active and trying to catch people...given what he's been doing with scumhunting this game..."

You think "mostly the Xeiron stuff" fits the description you gave in your read?  "Catch people" sounds like a plural to me.  What scumhunting?  I get it, he did one re-read.  WOOOOOO!  No, really, where are you coming from, TA?

No, like seriously, when he's been scum, he sheeped ALWAYS and NEVER did anything original. This is out of the norm for mail-mi to me, and to me, the norm for mail-mi is scum.

[nkirbit]

TA, what scumhunting has mail-mi been doing?  I don't recall anything in particular that wasn't a resaying of something somebody else had already said.

Mostly the Xeiron stuff. It's unlike him to go and read someone D1 and form his own opinions, whens the last time you saw that happen? I'm also probably tilted by the fact that he made the same point about Xeiron regarding the "exactly 3 scum" that I saw, which I think was a really really good point.

Oh look, someone else called you out on it.  To quote you:

"...he does seem like he's been more active and trying to catch people...given what he's been doing with scumhunting this game..."

You think "mostly the Xeiron stuff" fits the description you gave in your read?  "Catch people" sounds like a plural to me.  What scumhunting?  I get it, he did one re-read.  WOOOOOO!  No, really, where are you coming from, TA?

No, like seriously, when he's been scum, he sheeped ALWAYS and NEVER did anything original. This is out of the norm for mail-mi to me, and to me, the norm for mail-mi is scum.

I'll trust your judgement about what he does when he's scum, because I've never played with him as scum.  But in both Shakespeare and Mean Girls, he also "sheeped ALWAYS and NEVER did anything original".  Right?

So his is probably just mail-mi shifting his meta towards building more cases, which is GOOD.  As to whether it's scummy or towny?  I don't think it indicates anything.  It's different from both his scum meta and town meta, so I don't think we can apply meta judgements here for one way or the other.

[Twistedarcher]

TA is always foreground. You know, someone like yourself or TA just can't fall to the bottom of the pack and not get called out on it. For you guys, being loud and active is the norm. I guess you could argue TA is being too aggressive to be swcum, but I don't think that's the case. His behavior doesn't stand out to me, I think it's in line with his earlier play. Scum tries to imitate their earlier play, they won't for example go from being a top poster to total lurk mode.

I still don't get how this is in line with you wanted to lynch a background player. I shouldn't count as a foreground player cause I'm always a foreground player? I don't get what you're saying here. Me being loud and active is the norm, yet my behavior doesn't stand out to you for this, yet my behavior is in line with my normal play (loud and active). Huh? Am I misreading this?

[EFHW]

mail-mi made a case on Eevee in Pirates very similar to the one on X - not content wise, but in terms of "who should I look at", "oh, look how scummy they are!".  He was town, and so was Eevee.  I think he's doing it Day 1 because he's gotten a lot of feedback about not contributing enough.  So his behavior so far gives me no particular information about if he's scum or town.

[ashersky]

TA, here's the issue with your argument:

You are saying "normal" mail-mi is sheepy and lacking in original scumhunting.

You are saying mail-mi is not being "normal" mail-mi.

For those two things to both be true, you'd need to show me how mail-mi is NOT sheeping and IS scumhunting.

You would fail in that endeavor, even counting the Xeiron re-read/case.

[ashersky]

mail-mi made a case on Eevee in Pirates very similar to the one on X - not content wise, but in terms of "who should I look at", "oh, look how scummy they are!".  He was town, and so was Eevee.  I think he's doing it Day 1 because he's gotten a lot of feedback about not contributing enough.  So his behavior so far gives me no particular information about if he's scum or town.

This is the other point I was going to make in response to TA.  Even if you feel like mail-mi is "doing more" on D1 than usual, it's very well possible that mail-mi has taken the feedback he's gotten from other games and is adjusting accordingly.  And he can do this as either scum or town.

I made this argument about myself in both Bankers and Mean Girls.  I was town in one and scum in the other.  Knowing that your own meta is hurting you and your team (town or scum) and adjusting accordingly in just normal play.  I don't give towncred for it, but it also isn't scummy in and of itself.

[Twistedarcher]

mail-mi made a case on Eevee in Pirates very similar to the one on X - not content wise, but in terms of "who should I look at", "oh, look how scummy they are!".  He was town, and so was Eevee.  I think he's doing it Day 1 because he's gotten a lot of feedback about not contributing enough.  So his behavior so far gives me no particular information about if he's scum or town.

No, mail-mi was scum in that game. His re-read that time I think was very directed by others' reads (which I immediately called him out on), and I don't think it was this time.

You all may be correct that this is simply a non-faction related movement in his gameplay, and I'd totally support that, but I do think his play here is making him more likely to be town.

[EFHW]

Vote: TwistedArcher I guess is a better play than not vote here. My vote is very much for sale still, though.

Eevee, how does this vote for TA match up with what you said two posts before it, here:

I don't see myself voting for anybody who's been in the foreground during day1. 

I've been manifesting this for god knows how long. I agree. The problem is that in this game I think almost everyone is "treding lightly" and not being overly aggressive. Ashersky I guess is the boldest, but he is the one guy that could very conceivably play scum like that.

TA is foreground, man.
[/quote]

I'm not sure what the "this" Eevee has been manifesting is, but he doesn't actually indicate agreement with Shraeye, or say he'll only vote for background players.

[EFHW]

mail-mi made a case on Eevee in Pirates very similar to the one on X - not content wise, but in terms of "who should I look at", "oh, look how scummy they are!".  He was town, and so was Eevee.  I think he's doing it Day 1 because he's gotten a lot of feedback about not contributing enough.  So his behavior so far gives me no particular information about if he's scum or town.

No, mail-mi was scum in that game. His re-read that time I think was very directed by others' reads (which I immediately called him out on), and I don't think it was this time.

You all may be correct that this is simply a non-faction related movement in his gameplay, and I'd totally support that, but I do think his play here is making him more likely to be town.

Oh, yeah, you're right, he was scum.  There was so much back and forth, I forgot where things ended up!  But that argues against your townread, since he's behaving similarly to then.

[EFHW]

Quotefails!

Vote: TwistedArcher I guess is a better play than not vote here. My vote is very much for sale still, though.

Eevee, how does this vote for TA match up with what you said two posts before it, here:

I don't see myself voting for anybody who's been in the foreground during day1. 

I've been manifesting this for god knows how long. I agree. The problem is that in this game I think almost everyone is "treding lightly" and not being overly aggressive. Ashersky I guess is the boldest, but he is the one guy that could very conceivably play scum like that.

TA is foreground, man.

I'm not sure what the "this" Eevee has been manifesting is, but he doesn't actually indicate agreement with Shraeye, or say he'll only vote for background players.

[Twistedarcher]

mail-mi made a case on Eevee in Pirates very similar to the one on X - not content wise, but in terms of "who should I look at", "oh, look how scummy they are!".  He was town, and so was Eevee.  I think he's doing it Day 1 because he's gotten a lot of feedback about not contributing enough.  So his behavior so far gives me no particular information about if he's scum or town.

This is the other point I was going to make in response to TA.  Even if you feel like mail-mi is "doing more" on D1 than usual, it's very well possible that mail-mi has taken the feedback he's gotten from other games and is adjusting accordingly.  And he can do this as either scum or town.

I made this argument about myself in both Bankers and Mean Girls.  I was town in one and scum in the other.  Knowing that your own meta is hurting you and your team (town or scum) and adjusting accordingly in just normal play.  I don't give towncred for it, but it also isn't scummy in and of itself.

Okay. I guess the major difference here is that you, and several others, seem to be giving a scum-read for the "Who should I read / I went to read X", while I am giving it a townread. If he's scum, I'm pretty sure he waits for that answer, or just simply doesn't make the post in the first place. I also didn't get the impression that he was trying to force his views into his re-read, which I got last time -- I think his read on Xeiron comes out pretty genuine.

I have a good compare / contrast to his last re-read in Pirates, which he did as scum. The pirates re-read, to me, SCREAMED of scum trying to force an ingenuine view onto every post a player did. I didn't get ANY of that impression on the re-read, and instead saw this one as really genuine. I think the re-read 100% came from a town member, and not a scum member.

[Eevee]

TA is always foreground. You know, someone like yourself or TA just can't fall to the bottom of the pack and not get called out on it. For you guys, being loud and active is the norm. I guess you could argue TA is being too aggressive to be swcum, but I don't think that's the case. His behavior doesn't stand out to me, I think it's in line with his earlier play. Scum tries to imitate their earlier play, they won't for example go from being a top poster to total lurk mode.

I still don't get how this is in line with you wanted to lynch a background player. I shouldn't count as a foreground player cause I'm always a foreground player? I don't get what you're saying here. Me being loud and active is the norm, yet my behavior doesn't stand out to you for this, yet my behavior is in line with my normal play (loud and active). Huh? Am I misreading this?

Well, I guess I see it a bit differently. What I mean is that people who do something that is bound to bring them to the spotlight are usually not good lynches. I guess TA is a bit like that, but seriously.. I think if we never ever lynch ash/yuma/TA day 1 because they always post so much, that's a bit of a problem too.. maybe?

[Twistedarcher]

TA is always foreground. You know, someone like yourself or TA just can't fall to the bottom of the pack and not get called out on it. For you guys, being loud and active is the norm. I guess you could argue TA is being too aggressive to be swcum, but I don't think that's the case. His behavior doesn't stand out to me, I think it's in line with his earlier play. Scum tries to imitate their earlier play, they won't for example go from being a top poster to total lurk mode.

I still don't get how this is in line with you wanted to lynch a background player. I shouldn't count as a foreground player cause I'm always a foreground player? I don't get what you're saying here. Me being loud and active is the norm, yet my behavior doesn't stand out to you for this, yet my behavior is in line with my normal play (loud and active). Huh? Am I misreading this?

Well, I guess I see it a bit differently. What I mean is that people who do something that is bound to bring them to the spotlight are usually not good lynches. I guess TA is a bit like that, but seriously.. I think if we never ever lynch ash/yuma/TA day 1 because they always post so much, that's a bit of a problem too.. maybe?

It's okay, you guys lynch me D2 every game anyways

[EFHW]

Oh, yeah, you're right, he was scum.  There was so much back and forth, I forgot where things ended up!  But that argues against your townread, since he's behaving similarly to then.

I missed the last part of your post - I don't think his case on Eevee was directed by others.  Eevee hadn't gotten more attention than anyone else -- it was before the whole claiming business came up.

But even if it was, a couple people have already noticed X being kind of scummy here too. 

[Eevee]

TA is seeming townier of late, I think it's unlikely he'd defend mail-mi like that if he was scum and mail-mi, because it seems like we are drifting towards lynching either TA or mail-mi.

Unvote for that, actually.

[ashersky]

Quotefails!

Vote: TwistedArcher I guess is a better play than not vote here. My vote is very much for sale still, though.

Eevee, how does this vote for TA match up with what you said two posts before it, here:

I don't see myself voting for anybody who's been in the foreground during day1. 

I've been manifesting this for god knows how long. I agree. The problem is that in this game I think almost everyone is "treding lightly" and not being overly aggressive. Ashersky I guess is the boldest, but he is the one guy that could very conceivably play scum like that.

TA is foreground, man.

I'm not sure what the "this" Eevee has been manifesting is, but he doesn't actually indicate agreement with Shraeye, or say he'll only vote for background players.

What are your thoughts on the two words I bolded there?  For reference, they are "I agree."  That usually indicates agreement.

[nkirbit]

So ash, can I have some questions to answer to prove I'm not scum?

Somehow this feels fake to me. How could there be a question that would prove anything right now?

Something to respond to. Something about why u think I'm scum so I can explain it.

Okay.

So, mail-mi generally has a scummy vibe.  I empathize, because so do I.  So I start off with a higher threshhold for scumminess for mail-mi.  Like, watching him in Shakespeare, knowing he was town, but coming off scummy.

The things that have stuck out above and beyond normal mail-mi scumminess in this game include his reaction/vote when I played the raerae gambit; his annoyance and vote at my Mean Girls references; and what I saw as a contradiction when he voted/unvoted Eevee.

Since those things, mail-mi had the "who should I read/read Xeiron/vote Xeiron" thing and now he's actively trying to respond to my case on him.

Is this a super strong case?  Nope.  It's another D1 case.  I don't feel terrible about it though, and think mail-mi has as good a chance of flipping scum as the other acti-lurkers.  I think he has a better chance of flipping scum than the foregrounders.

So there are a few things you can respond to, mail-mi.  Or not, since they aren't accusations so much as a list of things you did.  But taken in total, I feel like it's a good enough case to lynch on for D1.

I don't see why his annoyance at the tracker references is scummy.  I mean, it's probably just a frustration thing... I wasn't even alive day2, and reading those I had a reaction to them.  But mail-mi would probably be a little annoyed by those references regardless of his alignment here, right?  I don't see why his reaction is scummy.. he said he was voting because he was annoyed with you, and I do believe he was in fact annoyed with you.  What's scummy there?

It's weird that he chose Xeiron, who's one of the easier mislynches.. but if you don't have a history of building cases and you're looking to get into it, choosing the guy with ten posts is a pretty good way to start, right?  So his choice is troubling on one hand, because it's Xeiron, and perfectly reasonable on the other hand, because it's Xeiron.  He could have chosen Xeiron because he was an easy mislynch target, but he also could have chosen Xeiron because he's an easy re-read because there's just not much.  I don't see a reason to be troubled with his choice of Xeiron.

The more interesting question is whether or not I have an issue with him asking us to choose who to do a re-read on.  It is odd, and is something that's attributable to scum, but on the other hand, it's a little too obvious.  I keep wanting to say things like "Wouldn't scum be more careful than that?" because that's such an obviously scummy thing, and I'm worried that I'm overthinking it.  But I do think that scum!mail-mi would be more careful.

If we're going to lynch someone in the background, I'd much rather it be Xeiron.  Mail-Mi had a scummy reaction to Ash's "case" on raerae, but I think Xeiron's reaction was way similar.  Mail-mi was a little odd about asking who he should re-read, but I'm much more troubled by Xeiron's challenge of Theorel's math.  The "How do you know" line that TA and mail-mi highlighted is much more scummy to me than simply "who should I reread".  I think town!mail-mi would ask who to re-read a lot.. I'm not sure that town!xeiron uses the phrase that he did.

[Twistedarcher]

Seriously though, if you have a minute, go read mail-mi's re-read of Eevee in Pirates, and then read his re-read of Xeiron here. Every post he made on Eevee in Pirates was him trying to cram a scum read in when he could. This one DOES NOT read the same way.

[ashersky]

mail-mi made a case on Eevee in Pirates very similar to the one on X - not content wise, but in terms of "who should I look at", "oh, look how scummy they are!".  He was town, and so was Eevee.  I think he's doing it Day 1 because he's gotten a lot of feedback about not contributing enough.  So his behavior so far gives me no particular information about if he's scum or town.

This is the other point I was going to make in response to TA.  Even if you feel like mail-mi is "doing more" on D1 than usual, it's very well possible that mail-mi has taken the feedback he's gotten from other games and is adjusting accordingly.  And he can do this as either scum or town.

I made this argument about myself in both Bankers and Mean Girls.  I was town in one and scum in the other.  Knowing that your own meta is hurting you and your team (town or scum) and adjusting accordingly in just normal play.  I don't give towncred for it, but it also isn't scummy in and of itself.

Okay. I guess the major difference here is that you, and several others, seem to be giving a scum-read for the "Who should I read / I went to read X", while I am giving it a townread. If he's scum, I'm pretty sure he waits for that answer, or just simply doesn't make the post in the first place. I also didn't get the impression that he was trying to force his views into his re-read, which I got last time -- I think his read on Xeiron comes out pretty genuine.

I have a good compare / contrast to his last re-read in Pirates, which he did as scum. The pirates re-read, to me, SCREAMED of scum trying to force an ingenuine view onto every post a player did. I didn't get ANY of that impression on the re-read, and instead saw this one as really genuine. I think the re-read 100% came from a town member, and not a scum member.

Unless they are both scum.  I mean, X is a good lynch too.

[nkirbit]

It's weird that he chose Xeiron, who's one of the easier mislynches.. but if you don't have a history of building cases and you're looking to get into it, choosing the guy with ten posts is a pretty good way to start, right?  So his choice is troubling on one hand, because it's Xeiron, and perfectly reasonable on the other hand, because it's Xeiron.  He could have chosen Xeiron because he was an easy mislynch target, but he also could have chosen Xeiron because he's an easy re-read because there's just not much.  I don't see a reason to be troubled with his choice of Xeiron.

I guess I should say I do see a reason, but have no evidence to believe that reason's the correct one.  There are other perfectly good reasons that I think are more likely.

[Twistedarcher]

Quotefails!

Vote: TwistedArcher I guess is a better play than not vote here. My vote is very much for sale still, though.

Eevee, how does this vote for TA match up with what you said two posts before it, here:

I don't see myself voting for anybody who's been in the foreground during day1. 

I've been manifesting this for god knows how long. I agree. The problem is that in this game I think almost everyone is "treding lightly" and not being overly aggressive. Ashersky I guess is the boldest, but he is the one guy that could very conceivably play scum like that.

TA is foreground, man.

I'm not sure what the "this" Eevee has been manifesting is, but he doesn't actually indicate agreement with Shraeye, or say he'll only vote for background players.

What are your thoughts on the two words I bolded there?  For reference, they are "I agree."  That usually indicates agreement.

Well, Eevee says he agrees, then goes and does the opposite, so it's pretty clear that in the context of this game, he doesn't actually agree.

[nkirbit]

Seriously though, if you have a minute, go read mail-mi's re-read of Eevee in Pirates, and then read his re-read of Xeiron here. Every post he made on Eevee in Pirates was him trying to cram a scum read in when he could. This one DOES NOT read the same way.

Give me a post number!

[Eevee]

Quotefails!

Vote: TwistedArcher I guess is a better play than not vote here. My vote is very much for sale still, though.

Eevee, how does this vote for TA match up with what you said two posts before it, here:

I don't see myself voting for anybody who's been in the foreground during day1. 

I've been manifesting this for god knows how long. I agree. The problem is that in this game I think almost everyone is "treding lightly" and not being overly aggressive. Ashersky I guess is the boldest, but he is the one guy that could very conceivably play scum like that.

TA is foreground, man.

I'm not sure what the "this" Eevee has been manifesting is, but he doesn't actually indicate agreement with Shraeye, or say he'll only vote for background players.

What are your thoughts on the two words I bolded there?  For reference, they are "I agree."  That usually indicates agreement.

Oh semantics? Like. I agree, lynching the guy who just disappears and doesn't post for 4 days is not our best shot at getting mafia. Nor is the guy who typed "I agree" and then "I only partially agree" to the same thing later. I agree scum is generally in the background, the guys you don't even remember are playing (because scum tries really hard to not mess up while town often posts without giving it too much thought.)

However, a lot of the things TA did I found subtly scummy. Now he did something I thought was very towny in defending mail-mi.

[ashersky]

I don't see why his annoyance at the tracker references is scummy.  I mean, it's probably just a frustration thing... I wasn't even alive day2, and reading those I had a reaction to them.  But mail-mi would probably be a little annoyed by those references regardless of his alignment here, right?  I don't see why his reaction is scummy.. he said he was voting because he was annoyed with you, and I do believe he was in fact annoyed with you.  What's scummy there?

I think voting simply because you are annoyed is at the very least anti-town, and can easily be an easy excuse to vote for town.