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[ashersky]

No, I don't think mail-mi is most likely to be scum, I wouldn't support his lynch. But let me finish my re-read then I'll get you my reads!

It'd be nice if you could say why.

Since I said I was going to start tunneling him, he's asked who to re-read, decided on X, and then voted X.  And that's it.  He's sheepy mcsheeperson.

[ashersky]

Where the heck is Ash?

And theorel, and spiritbears, and chairs to a degree (he posted today, but the one before that was on June 26th).  Why call out just ash?

I remember him speaking least recently plus he's usually in the middle of this stuff.

She's just trying to make you jealous.

[ashersky]

That's understandable, great and a good defense. 

I don't know, I'm having a hard time deciding who to vote for. No one is standing out to me (not by actually standing out or by being too far back).

nkirbit and to an extent ashersky I read towny.

raerae and TA would maaayybe be scumreads, but I hate putting this out if I can't back them out in any way.

Others, I'm just very null on. So, town, know that I'm here and will eventually contribute with my vote, I just don't know where to put it yet. I do want a lynch to happen, but I'd rather not just randomly fire my vote somewhere.

PPE13, forgot to hit send.. going to read them after posting!

This is a classic town!Eevee post.

[ashersky]

My reads:

mail-mi -- I liked his re-read of Xeiron, and he does seem like he's been more active and trying to catch people. The sheeping is there, but it probably always will be, regardless of alignment. Some scummy stuff, but like everyone says, mail-mi is scummy, as scum or town. Everytime he's been scum, though, there's been HUGE red flags, and I haven't seen any HUGE red flags, just slightly scummy stuff. Given what he's been doing with scumhunting this game, I really do think hes town.

Raerae -- Nothing has really made me think she's scum whatsoever, town read here.

These two are the most problematic.  The raerae bit got plenty of talk.

You honestly feel like mail-mi has been MORE active than usual?  I'll do a post count soon, but man, I think you are way off base there.

What scum hunting has he done?  One re-read, of Xeiron.  That's it.  He's sheeped a few votes, made a few one-liners.  One of my posts at the end of my re-read was going to be "so what's the case on TA again?"

But your odd defense of mail-mi is freaking me out.

[Eevee]

The same two reads were the ones I found odd too, ash.

[ashersky]

TA, what scumhunting has mail-mi been doing?  I don't recall anything in particular that wasn't a resaying of something somebody else had already said.

Mostly the Xeiron stuff. It's unlike him to go and read someone D1 and form his own opinions, whens the last time you saw that happen? I'm also probably tilted by the fact that he made the same point about Xeiron regarding the "exactly 3 scum" that I saw, which I think was a really really good point.

Oh look, someone else called you out on it.  To quote you:

"...he does seem like he's been more active and trying to catch people...given what he's been doing with scumhunting this game..."

You think "mostly the Xeiron stuff" fits the description you gave in your read?  "Catch people" sounds like a plural to me.  What scumhunting?  I get it, he did one re-read.  WOOOOOO!  No, really, where are you coming from, TA?

[ashersky]

I don't see myself voting for anybody who's been in the foreground during day1.  I have just been burned too much by going after scummy-looking loud people, which just lets scum skate by.  I think this is really true of f.DS meta-styles recently, and the reason why town has lost so many.  Scum walk into day 1 being very careful not to say anything too "out there" and wait for town to blow up on itself, which towns inevitably do.  The players that I consider "foreground players" would be raerae, EFHW, spirit, Twisted, ashersky, myself.  I think nkirbit/Eevee have rode a line, where they pop out at certain moments looking obvious, and seem to be hidden in my mind at others; I don't put them on the no-lynch list.  I think that background players so far are Xeiron, AHoppy, chairs, theorel, mail-mi.

Agree with shraeye here that we should be looking to lynch an acti-lurker.

[ashersky]

TA, so, if I'm reading you correctly, I'm a default townread because you haven't found anything scummy?  Have you found anything townie?  If not, shouldn't I be a null-read?

This was indeed the read I wondered about the most. I'm probably vain, but the read on me surprised me as well. I don't think the stuff you are pointing out about me is very scummy at all.

All in all, it was a "good" list in that it didn't have many noninformative nullreads, but the amount of scumreads you've (you being TA) have already made and the certainty and ease with which you proclaimed them, didn't seem quite right to me.

Vote: TwistedArcher I guess is a better play than not vote here. My vote is very much for sale still, though.

Eevee, how does this vote for TA match up with what you said two posts before it, here:

I don't see myself voting for anybody who's been in the foreground during day1.  I have just been burned too much by going after scummy-looking loud people, which just lets scum skate by.  I think this is really true of f.DS meta-styles recently, and the reason why town has lost so many.  Scum walk into day 1 being very careful not to say anything too "out there" and wait for town to blow up on itself, which towns inevitably do.  The players that I consider "foreground players" would be raerae, EFHW, spirit, Twisted, ashersky, myself.  I think nkirbit/Eevee have rode a line, where they pop out at certain moments looking obvious, and seem to be hidden in my mind at others; I don't put them on the no-lynch list.  I think that background players so far are Xeiron, AHoppy, chairs, theorel, mail-mi.

I've been manifesting this for god knows how long. I agree. The problem is that in this game I think almost everyone is "treding lightly" and not being overly aggressive. Ashersky I guess is the boldest, but he is the one guy that could very conceivably play scum like that.

TA is foreground, man.

[ashersky]

TA, so, if I'm reading you correctly, I'm a default townread because you haven't found anything scummy?  Have you found anything townie?  If not, shouldn't I be a null-read?

This was indeed the read I wondered about the most. I'm probably vain, but the read on me surprised me as well. I don't think the stuff you are pointing out about me is very scummy at all.

All in all, it was a "good" list in that it didn't have many noninformative nullreads, but the amount of scumreads you've (you being TA) have already made and the certainty and ease with which you proclaimed them, didn't seem quite right to me.

Vote: TwistedArcher I guess is a better play than not vote here. My vote is very much for sale still, though.

I don't get this point. I have 12 people to read. Yes, most of them are town, but I'm looking at all of them. Why is it such a surprise to have 4-5 scum reads D1? Out of a pool of 12 suspects, that's not such a huge amount.

Because I'm struggling to find one! You've never seemed like the overly unreasonably confident type. (There are guys who - without any power role information - might say that they are 99% sure someone is scum. You've never been like that.)

The only read I'm even remotely close to 99% on is Spiritbears. And I'm not even 99% sure on him, of course. 99% sure is silly.

I don't get why this is generating a scum read for you. Other people have posted (or should post if they haven't) scum to town lists. Most of these lists will have several people with scum reads. Would it help you if I had gone back and said slight scum instead of scum for the people closer to the middle, such as EFHW and yourself? Ultimately though, I did something that several others have done, and it's leading to your scum read on me -- I am sure it's due to the fact that I was already "off" to you, and not to anything else.

I just don't get why this makes me a scum read, other than the fact that something is "off" on me.

TA is a bit more defensive here than we've seen previously.  Noted.

[ashersky]

Eevee, fair enough. I hate that I can't dispute it

I know, and I horribly misjudged EVERYTHING in shakespeare (which might actually be why I'm so unable to form strong opinions know, seriously I sucked so bad in that game).

Whatever, Robz.

[Eevee]

TA is always foreground. You know, someone like yourself or TA just can't fall to the bottom of the pack and not get called out on it. For you guys, being loud and active is the norm. I guess you could argue TA is being too aggressive to be swcum, but I don't think that's the case. His behavior doesn't stand out to me, I think it's in line with his earlier play. Scum tries to imitate their earlier play, they won't for example go from being a top poster to total lurk mode.

[ashersky]

Vote Count 1.9

raerae (1)  xeiron
shraeye (2) EFHW, theorel
chairs (1) raerae
Twistedarcher (3) spiritbears, chairs, Eevee
mail-mi (1) ashersky
xeiron (2) shraeye, mail-mi
spiritbears (2) nkirbit, Twistedarcher

Not Voting: (1) AHoppy

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
Day one ends on Monday, July 15th.

And I'm caught up.

Nothing happened in all those pages to make me think mail-mi is a bad lynch.  I do think raerae, shraeye, TA, and sb are not good D1 lynch options, so all y'all should choose someone else.

Let's lynch someone in the background.  At least one scum is hiding there.

[ashersky]

Scum tries to imitate their earlier play, they won't for example go from being a top poster to total lurk mode.

Except Robz.  He's a meta-changer.

[Eevee]

Scum tries to imitate their earlier play, they won't for example go from being a top poster to total lurk mode.

Except Robz.  He's a meta-changer.

Well, he does have some consistencies, but that's true.

Another thing I feel strongly about that a lot of the changes in the way someone is playing or is perceived to be playing have nothing to do with alignment. If someone for example is very stressed in real life during a stretch in a game and you compare how he/she "feels" like during that period, it might be very different from some other game just due to them being in different mood all the time.

[spiritbears]

Vote Count 1.9

raerae (1)  xeiron
shraeye (2) EFHW, theorel
chairs (1) raerae
Twistedarcher (3) spiritbears, chairs, Eevee
mail-mi (1) ashersky
xeiron (2) shraeye, mail-mi
spiritbears (2) nkirbit, Twistedarcher

Not Voting: (1) AHoppy

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
Day one ends on Monday, July 15th.

And I'm caught up.

Nothing happened in all those pages to make me think mail-mi is a bad lynch.  I do think raerae, shraeye, TA, and sb are not good D1 lynch options, so all y'all should choose someone else.

Let's lynch someone in the background.  At least one scum is hiding there.

unvote
So exactly who do you think are the good options?

[mail-mi]

Vote Count 1.9

raerae (1)  xeiron
shraeye (2) EFHW, theorel
chairs (1) raerae
Twistedarcher (3) spiritbears, chairs, Eevee
mail-mi (1) ashersky
xeiron (2) shraeye, mail-mi
spiritbears (2) nkirbit, Twistedarcher

Not Voting: (1) AHoppy

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
Day one ends on Monday, July 15th.

And I'm caught up.

Nothing happened in all those pages to make me think mail-mi is a bad lynch.  I do think raerae, shraeye, TA, and sb are not good D1 lynch options, so all y'all should choose someone else.

Let's lynch someone in the background.  At least one scum is hiding there.

I agree with ash here that raerae, shraeye, and TA are not good lunches today. Also that we should lynch someone in the background.

However, I think SB might be a good lunch. Not as good as X, but still good.

[spiritbears]

Vote Count 1.9

raerae (1)  xeiron
shraeye (2) EFHW, theorel
chairs (1) raerae
Twistedarcher (3) spiritbears, chairs, Eevee
mail-mi (1) ashersky
xeiron (2) shraeye, mail-mi
spiritbears (2) nkirbit, Twistedarcher

Not Voting: (1) AHoppy

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
Day one ends on Monday, July 15th.

And I'm caught up.

Nothing happened in all those pages to make me think mail-mi is a bad lynch.  I do think raerae, shraeye, TA, and sb are not good D1 lynch options, so all y'all should choose someone else.

Let's lynch someone in the background.  At least one scum is hiding there.

I agree with ash here that raerae, shraeye, and TA are not good lunches today. Also that we should lynch someone in the background.

However, I think SB might be a good lunch. Not as good as X, but still good.

I'd much prefer to have you for lunch....

[mail-mi]

So ash, can I have some questions to answer to prove I'm not scum?

[ashersky]

So ash, can I have some questions to answer to prove I'm not scum?

What do you think about TA?

Do you think Chairs's claim is more likely from town or scum?

Any read on nkirbit?

Note: I don't think you can prove you are town or scum by answering questions, but I think these are good topics to hear from you on.

[Eevee]

So ash, can I have some questions to answer to prove I'm not scum?

Somehow this feels fake to me. How could there be a question that would prove anything right now?

[mail-mi]

So ash, can I have some questions to answer to prove I'm not scum?

What do you think about TA?

Do you think Chairs's claim is more likely from town or scum?

Any read on nkirbit?

Note: I don't think you can prove you are town or scum by answering questions, but I think these are good topics to hear from you on.

TA: he may be feeling off to some people, but I get a town read from him.

Chairs: probably from newbie town.

Nkirbit: he's more of a null read.

[mail-mi]

So ash, can I have some questions to answer to prove I'm not scum?

Somehow this feels fake to me. How could there be a question that would prove anything right now?

Something to respond to. Something about why u think I'm scum so I can explain it.

[spiritbears]

So ash, can I have some questions to answer to prove I'm not scum?

Somehow this feels fake to me. How could there be a question that would prove anything right now?

I agree eevee, but remember last game when he asked this right before we mislynched him?  Kindof i think hé is wanting us to think of that though....

[ashersky]

So ash, can I have some questions to answer to prove I'm not scum?

Somehow this feels fake to me. How could there be a question that would prove anything right now?

Something to respond to. Something about why u think I'm scum so I can explain it.

Okay.

So, mail-mi generally has a scummy vibe.  I empathize, because so do I.  So I start off with a higher threshhold for scumminess for mail-mi.  Like, watching him in Shakespeare, knowing he was town, but coming off scummy.

The things that have stuck out above and beyond normal mail-mi scumminess in this game include his reaction/vote when I played the raerae gambit; his annoyance and vote at my Mean Girls references; and what I saw as a contradiction when he voted/unvoted Eevee.

Since those things, mail-mi had the "who should I read/read Xeiron/vote Xeiron" thing and now he's actively trying to respond to my case on him.

Is this a super strong case?  Nope.  It's another D1 case.  I don't feel terrible about it though, and think mail-mi has as good a chance of flipping scum as the other acti-lurkers.  I think he has a better chance of flipping scum than the foregrounders.

So there are a few things you can respond to, mail-mi.  Or not, since they aren't accusations so much as a list of things you did.  But taken in total, I feel like it's a good enough case to lynch on for D1.

[Eevee]

So ash, can I have some questions to answer to prove I'm not scum?

Somehow this feels fake to me. How could there be a question that would prove anything right now?

I agree eevee, but remember last game when he asked this right before we mislynched him?  Kindof i think hé is wanting us to think of that though....

That game was further, so more had happened which made it more legitimate then.