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[Watno]

Why don't you just try it out? Finding out in what combinations cards work is really fun.
For example: Loan. You're right that there are stronger cards for trashing. But if you still manage to pull off something great if there is no stronger trashing than loan on the board, that's even more rewarding.

[liopoil]

worker's village is very good for counting house. chancellor/scavenger is good too with counting house too, but again you need a village. scavenger more so because if you have a cantrip you can put counting house on top and draw it.

A kingdom with worker's village, counting house, coppersmith, mountebank, and scavenger/chancellor might be fun . Although mountebank would probably be ignored?

[Kirian]

Yeah, having a conversation using Translate is definitely interesting. It's also a testament to the algorithm that we were able to get that far. I'm disappointed that no one admitted that his hovercraft is full of eels.

Though, I have to wonder what he's getting through Translate with our slang. And if he doesn't watch Monty Python, then he surely thinks the translation didn't work for "hovercraft full of eels."

"A Scout is all the best cards of the Dominion."

[bodybuilder]

ok after playing other 3 games I confirm that I like loan and counting house
so now the cards that remain out are:
base: chancellor (I can not understand the usefulness)
intrigue: saboteur (no advantage and I've read that it is unbalanced in 3-4 players),  scout (as chancellor, I can not understand the usefulness),  wishing wells (it is frustrating to have to remember the order of the deck, if it is been modified, otherwise it is even more frustrating to guess!)
prosperity: trade route (I do not like it at all),  contraband (the opposition will always say: province or colony!)

now I ask you again, with patience, to give me a definitive judgment on these 6 cards,  I do well to leave them out? or some may be good?

I would like to sincerely enter again 1 of these, because I would only 5 cards out, and 70 cards for create  many random kingdoms! should be great! really do you want to leave me with only 69 cards?!

[WanderingWinder]

so now the cards that remain out are:
base: chancellor (I can not understand the usefulness)
intrigue: saboteur (no advantage and I've read that it is unbalanced in 3-4 players),  scout (as chancellor, I can not understand the usefulness),  wishing wells (it is frustrating to have to remember the order of the deck, if it is been modified, otherwise it is even more frustrating to guess!)
prosperity: trade route (I do not like it at all),  contraband (the opposition will always say: province or colony!)

now I ask you again, with patience, to give me a definitive judgment on these 6 cards,  I do well to leave them out? or some may be good?

I would like to sincerely enter again 1 of these, because I would only 5 cards out, and 70 cards for create  many random kingdoms! should be great! really do you want to leave me with only 69 cards?!

69 cards to 70 doesn't make that much difference.

The problem is, you don't understand the cards (and won't if you don't use them), and we cannot predict which cards you will enjoy, as we are not you.

[shMerker]

now I ask you again, with patience, to give me a definitive judgment on these 6 cards,  I do well to leave them out? or some may be good?

I would like to sincerely enter again 1 of these, because I would only 5 cards out, and 70 cards for create  many random kingdoms! should be great! really do you want to leave me with only 69 cards?!

I don't really know if the answer you want is out there. You could certainly play lots of fun dominion games with the 69 cards you have left over. Your reasons for disliking the cards you've listed seem based in fact. For example I like playing with Trade Route but I can't deny that it does require additional components. If that's a dealbreaker for you then, y'know, whatever. I'm not going to tell you how to have fun.

[ConMan]

Another problem you may be having is thinking "This card does X, but not very well. If this other card does X better, why don't I get rid of the first one?" but there are two reasons - firstly, the first card probably does something different: Loan, Mint and Mine all trash treasures, but in different ways; secondly, because not every game will have the "better" card in it, and you will need to decide whether the "worse" card is still worth buying for what it does.

For example, nearly any "Village" is better than the plain Village - Worker's Village gives you +Buy, Farming Village guarantees you'll draw a Treasure or an Action, Mining Village gives you an option to trash it for $2 - but sometimes the only village out there is Village, and if you still want to be able to play two terminal actions in a turn then you're going to want that card.

Again, I will suggest that if a particular card seems useless to you, then see if it has a strategy article. For example, you say of Contraband that people will just stop you from buying Province/Colony. And they will - but maybe what you really wanted to buy was Gold. Or a Village and a Smithy. Or some other neat combination of cards on the table. As the wiki and blog article points out, Contraband is not an "always buy", but if there are lots of different cheap cards you want then the opponent can't stop you from buying all of them, and once your deck has what it needs you stop playing the Contrabands so they can't stop you from buying those lovely Provinces.

If you don't want to play with a particular card, then go ahead and don't let us tell you that you should or you shouldn't. But I suggest that every once in a while you let one of those "removed" cards back in the game, and see what happens if you buy one or two of them. Play a game where you buy one Chancellor and up to two copies of another strong card, and any time you know both copies are in the discard then choose to let Chancellor flip the deck. Play a game with Scout, Great Hall, Harem and Nobles and see what happens when the Scout is actually drawing useful cards. It doesn't have to be every game, but once in a while see if you can understand when these cards have their moments.

[bodybuilder]

once you've convinced me! after playing other games I liked contraband, chancellor and scout.

the only ones that I can not find a utility are:
- Saboteur of which I have read that many other people have taken out of the game because it slows down the games.
- Wishing wells, works with Scout is true, but only with that!

thoughts on these two cards?

[sudgy]

Wishing Well isn't supposed to be used knowing what's there (although of course it combos with cards that do that), but it's more of a +1 Card, +1 Action, maybe draw one more card, and if not, learn what the top card of your deck is (which can be useful in certain situations).

[Jimmmmm]

Getting rid of Saboteur is fair enough I think. Some people like it, lots of people don't.

Wishing Well's pretty harmless. It's generally a good card to have, and in the right deck it works as a sort of half-Laboratory. I don't see a particular need to get rid of it, but I wouldn't particularly miss it.

[bodybuilder]

ok I am convinced of saboteur to delete it permanently. as well as trade route that does not please me at all.

Now the only question is wishing wells, let's see who can convince me to keep it

[Jimmmmm]

Trade Route can be pretty amazing in the mid-late game, especially if you have extra piles of Victory cards.

[bodybuilder]

no! on trade routes are already convinced: I do not like. I need to know if wishing wells also works well with other cards as well as scouts, and if it is worth to keep it

[Jimmmmm]

I think the bottom line is that we as players owe it to the designer and playtesters of the game to try out each of the cards for ourselves. Once we've played a few games with them, I think it's totally fine to remove cards that don't contribute to the fun of your group. But that's your personal choice, only you and your group know whether or not a particular card adds to the enjoyment of the game. Personally I, and probably most other people here, wouldn't remove any cards, and if I did, then the least fun cards for me would be different from the least fun cards for the next person. When you say you want to remove Chapel and the cards which give you VP tokens, I can't help but think, "No! Those cards are so much fun!" But if they're not fun for you, don't play with them.

So Wishing Well is a fine card. It's not great, but I wouldn't get rid of it. It has a few interesting interactions that if you don't know about then the best way to find out is to play with the card and see when it's good and when it's not so good. But the only reason you should remove a card is if it's not fun for your group, and no one here can tell you if a particular card is fun for you.

[Jimmmmm]

For more information on Wishing Well and its interactions etc, see here: http://dominionstrategy.com/2010/12/07/intrigue-wishing-well/

[bodybuilder]

I finally decided to also keep wishing wells. therefore remain outside only saboteur and trade route

[Emeric]

May be the end of this thread ! finally 115 posts to .... keep the cards ! Great !

[brokoli]

Man, if I had to remove cards from these 3 sets, it would be Witch, Mountebank and Goons...
But never Saboteur or Trade route !

[KingZog3]

Man, if I had to remove cards from these 3 sets, it would be Witch, Mountebank and Goons...
But never Saboteur or Trade route !

100% agree on Goons. I have not played a single game with Goons that has been fun, even when I'm the one racking in huge amounts of points. I don't understand why Trade Route is bad/not fun. It's a trasher, gives +buy and near the end of the game can make amazing money for it's price.

[Kuildeous]

Trade Route can look underwhelming at first. Let's face it: It often is underwhelming.

But like most of the cards, it has a chance to shine. If there are five or more victory cards out there, then it really changes the dynamic of the game. If it is in a kingdom with a decent trasher and no extra victory cards, then it can be forgettable.

I'll ask this of you, bodybuilder:  Do you want to remove a card that someone else might like? You say you don't like Trade Route, and I respect that decision. If someone else in your group likes it, then it's not fair to that player for you to remove it. What if another player chooses to remove Loan? You've warmed up to the card, and someone could choose to remove it. That wouldn't be fair.

The same could be said of Saboteur, but if everyone hates the card, then you could remove it.

Something else to consider is that you have 10 kingdom cards. Maybe one of them is a card you don't like, but you could all just ignore it. You have nine other cards to choose from (and your basic treasures). It's very rare for the players to buy from each of the 10 kingdom cards. Even the good cards get ignored sometimes. It's possible that nobody buys Witch because the kingdom is set up so that Witch is not a good strategy. These things happen.

So, I can understand why you don't like certain cards, but you may be depriving other players of the fun of that card. You don't find it fun, but someone else might.

Your players probably won't miss Saboteur, though.

[Awaclus]

Man, if I had to remove cards from these 3 sets, it would be Witch, Mountebank and Goons...
But never Saboteur or Trade route !

100% agree on Goons. I have not played a single game with Goons that has been fun, even when I'm the one racking in huge amounts of points. I don't understand why Trade Route is bad/not fun. It's a trasher, gives +buy and near the end of the game can make amazing money for it's price.

I also agree on Goons.

[Jimmmmm]

Goons is super fun.

[Davio]

The problem with Goons is that there is no real incentive to end the game as your main scoring comes from VP tokens you get from buying Coppers, Curses, Estates, etc... And of course the losing player can't end the game on a loss.

So it turns into a real slog where the winning player is slowly buying out cheap piles and the losing player is scrambling for green, making his own deck grind to a halt, or playing a similar Goons strategy. Worst case, both players are close together and neither can do both of these in the same turn: Get in front and end the game.

[Jimmmmm]

The problem with Goons is that there is no real incentive to end the game as your main scoring comes from VP tokens you get from buying Coppers, Curses, Estates, etc... And of course the losing player can't end the game on a loss.

If you're buying Coppers, Curses and Estates before you're ready to finish the game then you're doing something wrong.

[Stealth Tomato]

you convinced me,  I put the chapel back in the game

now I want to say please, what do you think of:

wishing well
saboteur
scout
chancellor
counting house
loan

Oo, I'll take up the mantle on Wishing Well! While usually a dumb card, it thrives in a few situations:

• When you can spam Wishing Wells. 10 Wishing Wells in a 30-card deck means you can repeatedly wish for Wishing Wells with about a 1/3 success rate. 10 in a 20-card deck should draw the whole deck reliably. This is however the least fun neat thing with Wishing Well.
• Combos with things that reveal the top of your deck, such as:
• Navigator. If you can get +actions and then play Navigator, you can then hit two guaranteed Wishing Wells.
• Cartographer. Like Navigator but better because it provides its own action.
• Apothecary. See Cartographer.
• Mystic. If you fail the Wishing Well wish, you can immediately pick up the card with Mystic.
• Survivors, although Survivors is obviously a crappy card.
• Scout, although Scout is also a crappy card.
• Pearl Diver, but only when you have only two cards left in your deck (this is a bad combo, don't rely on it).

Saboteur is expendable, it does very little besides make the game really unfun for most players. It can be a gamebreaker in high-level games (where an opponent who is way behind builds a Saboteur engine and starts killing the other player's Provinces; the player getting Sab'd is either left with a weak deck full of Duchies, or loses all his VP turning them into Golds), but in general it's just a weak card that makes the game unfun, and only recommended in desperate situations for very, very good players.

Scout is also expendable due to not being very good, but can be situationally useful (e.g. with Harem or Crossroads).

Counting House can be useful with strange combos (Warehouse) or against Mountebank, but doesn't provide anything integral to the game.

Chancellor can be killed simply because Scavenger replaces it and makes it into an actually useful card. That actually brings us to a list of cards that have been essentially replaced by more interesting versions (more interesting version in parentheses). Note that they all have the important distinction of being often useless and rarely bought (as opposed to, say, Village, which has also been replaced with more interesting versions but is itself a relatively useful card).

• Chancellor (Scavenger) $3 / $4
  
• Woodcutter (Nomad Camp) $3 / $4
  
• Workshop (Armory) $3 / $4
  
• Loan (Counterfeit) $3 / $5