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Author Topic: Need some Base-ic advice :)  (Read 3701 times)

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meshuggah42

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Need some Base-ic advice :)
« on: October 11, 2011, 07:11:11 am »
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I'm entering a base-only tournament tomorrow. It's a 5-round competition with 3-player games and only with the base set.
Since it was a long time ago I played with only the base I would like some advice regarding some basic strategies.

For example when to go for Gardens in 3p, what should I do if 1 or both opponents go big money, etc. If I recall Chapel is almost every time a must-buy when there are cantrips (Lab, Market, etc.) on the table.

Post some goodness please!  :)
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Geronimoo

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Re: Need some Base-ic advice :)
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2011, 09:29:58 am »
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You might want to read this first:
http://dominionstrategy.com/2011/06/20/guide-to-the-dominion-base-game/

I guess it boils down to this ( number 1 is the strongest strategy):

1)Gardens/Workshop (wins 65% against 2 players with Witches who buy Gardens trying to counter you)
2)Witch + treasure or incorporated into an engine (Witch +treasure wins 50% against two Chapel-engine players who don't buy Witches)
3)Chapel + Market/Lab/... for some kind of decent engine (depends, but should have a slight edge over Smithy)
4)1 Smithy + treasure (this will always have an edge against engines that aren't powered by Chapel)
5)if none of the above, focus mainly on Gold and not on actions!

Also buy Duchies when there are 7 or less Provinces left in most cases. And a bit later if you're going for Smithy or a Chapel engine.

Percentages have been derived using my simulator.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2011, 09:33:00 am by Geronimoo »
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tko

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Re: Need some Base-ic advice :)
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2011, 09:42:42 am »
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Maybe less than or equal to 4), but greater than 5), would be to get around 2-4 Labs and maybe 1 Market or Woodcutter.  I didn't simulate this... just guessing as Labs are decent, and some early 5-coin turns are better spent on Labs then Silvers.
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Geronimoo

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Re: Need some Base-ic advice :)
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2011, 09:53:42 am »
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Maybe less than or equal to 4), but greater than 5), would be to get around 2-4 Labs and maybe 1 Market or Woodcutter.  I didn't simulate this... just guessing as Labs are decent, and some early 5-coin turns are better spent on Labs then Silvers.

That was implied: get whatever actions you like, but don't try to build an elaborate engine, instead use the actions to get you to Golds faster or more often... It will always be inferior to Smithy+Treasure however.
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meshuggah42

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Re: Need some Base-ic advice :)
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2011, 10:09:43 am »
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Thank you all for the input!

Just got an update from the organizers, that due to the recently increased number of participants, there will be 4-player tables. Does that change the advices above?
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Geronimoo

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Re: Need some Base-ic advice :)
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2011, 10:41:58 am »
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Going from 3 to 4 players will have an impact, but not a major one. Smithy now beats some of the Chapel Engines because you only need 4 Provinces instead of 5 to win.
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Epoch

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Re: Need some Base-ic advice :)
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2011, 02:14:02 pm »
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Moat gets steadily better as number of players increases, I think.

Thief becomes worth thinking about at 4player, particularly if your opponents are trashing into Treasure (but still not as a first buy, of course).
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ehunt

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Re: Need some Base-ic advice :)
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2011, 02:31:18 pm »
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I think thief/gardens could be pretty great in 4p. Am I wrong?
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Epoch

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Re: Need some Base-ic advice :)
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2011, 02:43:40 pm »
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I think thief/gardens could be pretty great in 4p. Am I wrong?

I've never tried it, but I agree, it seems like it could be great.

The advantage of it compared to Workshop/Gardens:  One action card increases your deck size by (probably) 2-3, instead of 1, and decreases your opponents' deck sizes.

The big disadvantage:  Your Action does not itself give you more Thieves or Gardens.  This is worrisome, particularly considering that you're dealing with a 4 card hand in any hand with Thief, and most of your Treasure is Copper, and you have Green cards.  Missing $4 to actually get more Thieves and Gardens seems like a real possibility.  I suspect that there's a much higher chance that you'll want to buy Silver with $3 than in any of the other notable Gardens variants.

EDIT:  I assume it's not simulateable?  Geronimoo, Thief won't keep Coppers in the simulator, will it?
« Last Edit: October 11, 2011, 02:48:03 pm by Epoch »
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Kuildeous

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Re: Need some Base-ic advice :)
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2011, 02:49:15 pm »
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The big disadvantage:  Your Action does not itself give you more Thieves or Gardens.  This is worrisome, particularly considering that you're dealing with a 4 card hand in any hand with Thief, and most of your Treasure is Copper, and you have Green cards.  Missing $4 to actually get more Thieves and Gardens seems like a real possibility.  I suspect that there's a much higher chance that you'll want to buy Silver with $3 than in any of the other notable Gardens variants.

Also, the probability of you hitting treasures in your opponents' decks starts going down as they buy greens.

It's an interesting proposition, but it may be too risky.
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WanderingWinder

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Re: Need some Base-ic advice :)
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2011, 02:54:02 pm »
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Thing is, even in 2 player, Thief/money is better than just big money, in the head to head matchup (though obviously it starts doing worse the further away they are from straight-up BM, exception of trashing/money). So with more players, it should be pretty good. Terrible opener though.

Epoch

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Re: Need some Base-ic advice :)
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2011, 02:55:32 pm »
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Also, the probability of you hitting treasures in your opponents' decks starts going down as they buy greens.

I'm not sure I believe that's a problem.  If they're buying greens early, what strategy are they using?  Also Thief/Garden?  Well, obviously a mirror strategy is a 50/50 proposition (I guess, a 25/25/25/25 proposition).  Some other strategy?  I don't think you need to worry about greens then.  Actions, maybe, but Action-heavy strategies are pretty bad in 4p base-set-only, and this deck is going to be worth a LOT of points, because it will be bigger than a typical Workshop/Gardens deck.  I'm a little dubious that trying to set up a big Action chain will beat Thief/Garden... if it can buy Gardens and Thieves consistently.  That's the real question.
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