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[theorel]

Editing/Managing your own character sheet...
I'd like to let you guys have the ability to add your own notes to the character sheets and what-not.  My thought was to store them all in a single spreadsheet, and give you access to edit your own.  In order for that to work, you'll need to PM me your e-mail address.  (seems like it shouldn't be publicly editable).

[Grujah]

interested, gimme a sec to read it all.

[Galzria]

My character will likely have separation issues. In company he'll be quiet, but confident... However he'll start to have a nervous breakdown if he ever finds himself alone. He'll speak clearly, unless he's overly nervous or scared in which case he'll develop a strong lisp.

He has an aversion to guns, which as you can imagine is not easy in this setting. However, back to a wall, life or death, he will use one.

The reasons for his behaviors stem from losing his parents in the civil war and being left alone. He didn't see them shot, but he heard the guns fire and heard the sickening thud as their bodies hit the floor. He was 12 years old at the time. He's blocked out the memories of that time, and the pursuing months as best he can, but gunfire or being left alone bring them flooding back. If the panic attack sets in deep enough he'll be unable to speak coherently, instead stammering out details of his parents death.

When he's comfortable, he's rather charming. He treats those around him as if they are family, and he trusts easily. He's always looking to make friends. He's skilled with his hands and quick on his feet. His frame is on the smaller side, he has long blonde hair that he keeps pulled back, and he's missing his pinky finger on his left hand - though he refuses to tell anybody the truth about what happened to it.

As for game related setup, I haven't looked anything over yet.

One of the fun things about working with first time roleplayers, is that you get much more character-based concepts.  What I mean is: you've written a good amount about who the character is, but very little about what the character does.  Your stats on the character sheet are going to be about what the character can do, while who the character is determines how you play them, interact outside of die rolls, etc.  A roleplaying game is both parts at the same time.  (Veteran roleplayers can often concentrate too much on the other side, which is why I say it's a fun thing about working with someone who hasn't played a lot before, it's refreshing to just have a character.)

Anyways, he sounds like an interesting character, I'm just trying to help channel the creative energies in a direction that will enable turning him into an RPG character.


That said, we should discuss the aversion to guns.  A few things:
1. Is it strictly guns, or does it extend to violence in general?  For example, if your character never fires a gun, but gets in fist-fights, and "brings a knife to a gunfight", that's a very different character to someone who tries to talk his way out of situations, and refuses to hurt people outside of life and death situations.

2. What's his reaction going to be when the people around him start firing guns?  I mean, that's probably going to happen in every combat scene (unless somehow no one in the party takes up firearms), so if you're risking a panic attack or suffering a penalty when surrounded by gunfire, it's going to come up a lot.

Basically, I could see this coming out in game terms in a few different ways, or maybe some combination of them  These are all hindrances that would fit that:
-Phobia (Major): Firearms (specifically drawn/fired weapons - otherwise it'd just be ridiculous, since it would apply 100% of the time).  You suffer a -2 penalty on trait rolls when surrounded by gunfire.  (I think this might just be debilitating...but it feels closest to the concept.  I'm making it a major hindrance due to the fact that it will apply essentially every combat, even though it's the lesser Phobia effect)

-Pacifist (Minor): Only fights in self defense. 
(Major version of pacifist = will not fight living creatures under any circumstances, which is both stronger than your concept and ridiculously hard to pull off)
Maybe with a "trapping" of aversion to firearms.  But it would best apply to all fighting, guns or not.  (I can see this fitting, but it would tweak the concept a little.)

-Quirk (Minor): Goes mute/cannot communicate around drawn (or maybe just after having witnessed firing) firearms.  This kind of hits the "stammering about his parents death" part.  If you were mute around drawn firearms and pacifist, that would be kind of weird.  You couldn't stop the escalation (in fact would contribute to it often by refusing to speak), but it might just result in you getting beaten up rather than killed when you refuse to draw on someone.  However, again, you would probably be unable to communicate during any combat...which can matter at times.

Or maybe something like (for targeting specifically the aversion to using guns):
-Quirt (Minor): Aversion to firearms.  The character tries to avoid using guns.  -1 to Shooting rolls when using one.

He has no issues with violence in general, and is certainly not a pacifist. His aversion is strictly to guns... And even then it's not completely debilitating. The mute quirk is the closest to what I have in mind, but it's an escalating fear. One drawn gun by a fellow adventurer? He's probably uncomfortable, but that's it. Two guns? Getting nervous. 3+? Yeah, he's getting freaked out now.

On the other hand, if the gun is drawn against my character, he's likely to reach panic much faster.

[Jorbles]

Can you give me more details on Trouble Magnet? I am considering it, but I don't know the details of the hindrance, and I haven't found them online.

Edit: Other people might want the details on the others so maybe those too.

[Jack Rudd]

Can you give me more details on Trouble Magnet? I am considering it, but I don't know the details of the hindrance, and I haven't found them online.

Edit: Other people might want the details on the others so maybe those too.

The usual rule of thumb with disadvantages with names like that is that they really piss off your fellow adventurers, because every character gets the drawback, but only one gets the associated benefits.

[Lekkit]

But the rest of the group also get the benefit of having more conflicts to solve.

[Jorbles]

Can you give me more details on Trouble Magnet? I am considering it, but I don't know the details of the hindrance, and I haven't found them online.

Edit: Other people might want the details on the others so maybe those too.

The usual rule of thumb with disadvantages with names like that is that they really piss off your fellow adventurers, because every character gets the drawback, but only one gets the associated benefits.

It depends on why they're playing or what they want to get out of the game. I play to see something interesting happen and have an interesting story to tell afterwards. I don't like min/maxing or munchkining. The name, Trouble Magnet, implies that it's something that might make my character more in line with how I envision him, so I'm considering it. I want to play a character that gets into trouble. I will probably do things as this character that do not seem sensible from the perspective of a player, but fit my character.

I guess this is as good a time as ever to discuss why we want to play as sometimes players aren't all in it for the same thing. I want to make an interesting character and have an interesting story to tell after we're done playing.

[Jack Rudd]

While we're at it, how about the "Vow" hindrance? What's that likely to be like in play?

[Jorbles]

Savage Worlds is a class-less system.  You pick attributes, skills, and edges and those determine what you can do.  In Deadlands everyone is human, so there's not really any race selection here either.

I'll go through the general character creation steps, with some notes.
Character Creation Steps (These steps really happen in any order):
1) Choose Race: In Deadlands everyone's human.  A human gets 1 Edge for free at character creation.

2) Choose Attributes:  All Attributes start at d4, you have 5 "attribute points" to spend raising them.  Each point raises the attribute one die type.
(another natural way that I tend to view this is, you have 5 attributes at d6, you can lower one of them to raise another one.  It emphasizes that d6 is sort of "average" for an attribute, so in order to be exceptional in one you need to be below average in another) 
Brief Attribute Explanation:
Agility and Smarts have the most linked skills and are used for "tricks" in combat.
Spirit has a few skills, and is used to recover from being shaken.
Strength has only a couple skills and is used to determine melee damage and carrying capacity.
Vigor determined how hard you are to hurt.
Edges often have an attribute requirement.

3) Choose Skills: All skills start untrained, you have 15 "skill points" to spend increasing them.  Spending 1 skill points starts the skill at d4.  If you are raising a skill past the linked attribute it costs 2 skill points.  (so for example, if you have Agility d6 and want Shooting at d10 you would spend 6 skill points as so: 1 to get d4, 1 for d6, 2 for d8, and 2 for d10).

4) Take Hindrances: you can take 1 Major and 2 Minor hindrances.  It's recommended you do so...it fleshes out the character, and gives you additional build points to spend.  Also, one way to earn fate chips is to roleplay your hindrances well.  Minor Hindrances give 1 hindrance point, a Major Hindrance gives 2.

5) Take Edges/Spend Hindrance Points: As a human you get 1 free edge.  You can spend Hindrance points for additional edges or for attributes, skills, and money.  Edges are very much a defining characteristic for characters, two characters with the same attributes/skills but different edges will be very different in practice.  Hindrance Points are spent as follows: Hindrance Points | Benefit
1 | Skill Point
1 | Increase Starting Wealth by starting amount
2 | Attribute Point
2 | Edge

(Note: Each 5 XP you'll get an advance.  An advance works a lot like 2 hindrance points, except with no starting wealth option)

6) Buy Gear.

7) Determine Derived Stats, Backstory and Worst Nightmare.

Google Drive Character Sheet:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgQW2_nUk_nKdFAza21HRWdXN3h4SXBTLTJrZ2xnX3c&usp=sharing

How do we get Powers?

[Galzria]

We get a novice edge to start, correct? Can it come from any variety (combat/leadership/basic/etc)?

[Jack Rudd]

OK, here's a character concept. Well, part of one:

My character led a reasonably comfortable existence until the Civil War started raging near her town. Her parents both died as a result of the conflict, but she and her younger sister have managed to escape. Her primary priority now is to protect her sister from harm.

[Grujah]

I'll skip for now. Maybe I jump in later, if something like that is possible.

[theorel]

Short summary of hindrances from Last Sons...
Allergy (Minor/Major): (this is just a typical allergy, not something weird...mechanics follow)
Aversion to a common substance (pollen, sawdust, peanuts, horse dander, etc).  Whenever "exposed" to it (within 5" generally, but depends on allergen), make a vigor roll.  If failed suffer 1 level of fatigue.  Minor = -1 on vigor roll, fatigue lasts 1d6 hours.  major = -2 on vigor roll, fatigue lasts 24 hours.

Coup Counter (Minor):
You always try to "count coup" on an opponent in combat.  If there is an enemy that you can reach in one round (pace + running), your first action must be to count coup.  You may spend a fate chip to avoid this.  As a bonus, you get better reactions from people who value this sort of tradition (mostly tribes in the Plains).
Counting Coup = touching your opponent with a coup stick without harming them.  This is done by a fighting roll at +2.

Intolerant (Minor/Major):
Choose a racial group...your character suffers -2 (minor) or -4 (major) charisma when dealing with them.  In addition, Leadership edges don't work on them, unless you have worked with them for at least 1 week.

Trouble Magnet (Minor/Major):
At least once per session, trouble will wander across this hero's path.  The intensity of the trouble depends on whether it's major or minor, but is otherwise left to Marshal's discretion.  Examples provided of "trouble" are: someone recognizes you while trying to infiltrate a confederate fort or a terrible storm headed straight towards your campfire.
-This hindrance is obviously very Marshal-dependent.  So, I'll include some thoughts here.  I think that I would use this hindrance in four different ways, and try to spread it around evenly among them, and limit it to 1-2 of these per session (depending on severity of the hindrance, and the situation).
1. The posse runs into some additional trouble.  Essentially, you have extra random encounters of various sorts.
2. In an expected encounter, you become the primary "target".  i.e. you run into a pack of wolves, and they decide that you're the one to gang up on.
3. Throwing a wrench in your plans, specifically regarding your character's involvement.
4. Adding an additional complication to a situation.  i.e. It's raining during a combat with a melee monster, reducing the effectiveness of ranged combat, while not really reducing its effectiveness.

[theorel]

I'll skip for now. Maybe I jump in later, if something like that is possible.

That's cool.  There's always opportunities to join later, just drop me a line if you change your mind.

[theorel]

While we're at it, how about the "Vow" hindrance? What's that likely to be like in play?

Vow is a sort of open-ended hindrance.  You're taking a vow to do things...which basically gives me permission to pull your strings in order to make your character do things.  It's a purely roleplaying hindrance.  For example, if you take a vow to "rid the world of evil", then when you come across some evil thing you won't just high-tail it and let things fall...you'll try to destroy it.  Or if you took a vow to protect someone, you would then be bound to protect that person.  Which means, that I as a Marshal am likely to put that person in danger, in order to make you protect them

[ashersky]

Let me know if I'm doing this right...

A little bit on my character (to be fleshed out):

Born to mixed parents (Asian immigrant mother, Native American father), he learned early on how to blend in with any group, and to use his charm to befriend them.  He's disarming by nature, and immediately trust, mostly because no one fears a blind man.  The result of an accident stemming from Ghost Rock experiments by his uncle working for the Shan Fan railroaders, he lost his sight at age 12.

His fighting prowess comes from his Asian heritage, but his spiritual side, and natural affinity with animals, from his father's side.  He has a feral dog (possibly a coyote), with him at all times, who acts as a guide and protector.  He prefers hand-to-hand martial combat, as well as blades; he can shoot, since everyone does in the Wierd West, but his aim isn't great without his eyesight.

He also has a secret, centered on a small package he keeps close to him at all times.  Whatever it is, it wasn't his to begin with, and the group he "borrowed" it from wants it back.



Attributes:
Agility - d8
Strength - d6
Smarts - d4
Spirit - d8
Vigor - d4

Skills:
Faith: d8 (3 point)
Fighting: d8 (3 points)
Notice: d4 (1 point)
Riding: d4 (1 point)
Stealth: d8 (3 points)
Survival: d6 (3 points)
Tracking: d4 (1 point)

Hindrances:
Major - Blind
Minor - Loyal, Enemy

Edges:
Beast Master
Charismatic
Acrobat

[theorel]

We get a novice edge to start, correct? Can it come from any variety (combat/leadership/basic/etc)?

Your character starts with 1-3 edges (unless you take veteran of the weird west).  The variety of edges don't mean anything at character creation...it's just a method of organization.

After character creation there are 2 types of edges that are more meaningful: Background and Professional.  In both cases, they're meant to indicate something more than just "I leveled up".  Basically, they require GM permission, but really it just means that you should give me a heads up, so that I can work it into the story.  You don't just wake up one day with the Thief edge, you need to have actually practiced the trade some and probably talked/trained with some more capable thieves.  OR if you decide to become "Attractive", your character needs to have done something to make it happen, maybe cleaned up, started shaving regularly, got a new haircut, and started working out.  That kind of thing.  This merits mentioning now, since if you take them now, they can just be part of your backstory.  Note: Arcane Backgrounds fall in this category.

How do we get Powers?

You get some when you take Arcane Background (explained below).  You can also take the New Power edge to get access to another power, the Power Points edge (once per rank) to get 5 more power points, and the Rapid Recharge/Improved Rapid Recharge edges to recharge power points quicker.  There are other edges available to each of the arcane backgrounds, if someone takes one, I'll fill them in on the specifics.

When you purchase an Arcane Background you get a number of powers dependent on the type.  You also get a different number of power points and some sort of drawback.  You didn't ask about the other 2 things, but here's the basics for Deadlands:
(I'm 90% sure this is correct)
Miracles (i.e. Blessed): have access to all powers, and don't use power points.  Suffer a penalty to casting depending on rank of power being attempted (-2/rank including Novice), and suffer fatigue if they fail.  Must adhere to a rigid moral code, or lose some power temporarily.

Shaman: 2 powers, 10 power points.  Need to perform nightly rituals to appease the spirits.  Can get away with not performing them for a bit if they follow the Old Ways Oath.  Regenerate power points faster under the open sky.

Magic (Huckster): 3 powers, 10 power points.  Shaken with a roll of 1 on the casting die.  Regenerate Powers slowly (1/3 hours).  May Deal with Devil for "free" power points, but that can also come with some drawbacks.

Mad Scientist: 1 power, 20 power points.  Powers are in devices, which means each "New Power" comes with another device with its own power point pool.  Devices explode with a roll of 1 on casting die causing 2d6 damage to anyone in a medium blast template (the device then needs repaired).  Additionally, each time they take the New Power edge they get a random dementia.

Chi Master: 2 powers, 20 power points.  Each power uses its own skill (linked to spirit).

[theorel]

Let me know if I'm doing this right...

A little bit on my character (to be fleshed out):

Born to mixed parents (Asian immigrant mother, Native American father), he learned early on how to blend in with any group, and to use his charm to befriend them.  He's disarming by nature, and immediately trust, mostly because no one fears a blind man.  The result of an accident stemming from Ghost Rock experiments by his uncle working for the Shan Fan railroaders, he lost his sight at age 12.

His fighting prowess comes from his Asian heritage, but his spiritual side, and natural affinity with animals, from his father's side.  He has a feral dog (possibly a coyote), with him at all times, who acts as a guide and protector.  He prefers hand-to-hand martial combat, as well as blades; he can shoot, since everyone does in the Wierd West, but his aim isn't great without his eyesight.

He also has a secret, centered on a small package he keeps close to him at all times.  Whatever it is, it wasn't his to begin with, and the group he "borrowed" it from wants it back.



Attributes:
Agility - d8
Strength - d6
Smarts - d4
Spirit - d8
Vigor - d4

Skills:
Faith: d8 (3 point)
Fighting: d8 (3 points)
Notice: d4 (1 point)
Riding: d4 (1 point)
Stealth: d8 (3 points)
Survival: d6 (3 points)
Tracking: d4 (1 point)

Hindrances:
Major - Blind
Minor - Loyal, Enemy

Edges:
Beast Master
Charismatic
Acrobat

That's all correct.  But, you have 2 unspent hindrance points.
You get: 1 edge for free.  1 for being blind.  and then you have 4 hindrance points, which you have spent 2 of to get a third edge.

Depending on what direction you're going with the hand-to-hand combat, you should consider: Martial Arts (no unarmed defender penalty, opponents don't get gang-up bonus), Chi Mastery (if you're interested in going Crouching Tiger-Hidden Dragon)

or you could consider Shamanism (if you want to explore more of the native american heritage).

Also you should note that melee combat also requires sight...so you're at a -6 penalty to hit anything in melee combat as well.  You'll be missing a lot...but having an animal companion will give some benefits to make up for it as well as making sure that you're not feeling useless in combat.



FYI: everyone.  I'm going to be spending a good bit of time tomorrow and through the weekend working on the new house.  I'll still be around sporadically, but I likely won't be on at all during the day (just morning and night).

[theorel]

I guess this is as good a time as ever to discuss why we want to play as sometimes players aren't all in it for the same thing. I want to make an interesting character and have an interesting story to tell after we're done playing.

This would also be a good thing for everyone to give input on.  Essentially, what would you like to get out of the game?  (It's okay if you don't know...but if you do know, that can help me make sure it happens )

[Lekkit]

I prefer it to be character driven as well.

I'm currently thinking about playing a prospector, probably foreign, who sold all his/her previous belongings to try his/her luck as a prospector. So far really unsuccessful in actually finding anything of value.

[ashersky]

I guess this is as good a time as ever to discuss why we want to play as sometimes players aren't all in it for the same thing. I want to make an interesting character and have an interesting story to tell after we're done playing.

This would also be a good thing for everyone to give input on.  Essentially, what would you like to get out of the game?  (It's okay if you don't know...but if you do know, that can help me make sure it happens )

I'm all about a game just for the sake of playing the game.  I like the roleplaying, character-driven stuff. 

I mean, is there a wincon?  Are we playing against each other or with each other? 

[theorel]

Well there's an end condition, which is to complete the story.  And so, you can consider "victory" to be successfully completing the story.

But in a sense, what I'm trying to do though is establish what your guys' personal wincons are.  Some example reasons that various people play:
1. To establish a character, and see them develop.  Basically, exploring a character's weaknesses, and seeing them overcome challenges.  Ideally there will be elements of the character's backstory that they can pursue in-game.  For example defeating an Enemy, or solving some mystery about their past.

2. Leveling up and getting loot.  Basically the driving force behind any MMO.  Some people get into RPGs for exactly those reasons.  They like to increase their character's "power" and get cool stuff.

3. (? Not sure this is entirely separate from 2).  Playing to the rules, discovering how to make the most powerful character build they can and trying it out.  This is essentially the "power-gamer" or "munchkin".  Basically they're most heavily invested in the game aspect of the roleplaying, and they're interested in exploring/exploiting those rules, much as you would with any typical boardgame.

From what I'm hearing, most of you are most interested in something like 1 above.  Which is good for everyone to be on the same page.  It means that the most important thing for me to concentrate on is integrating your characters into the story, rather than crafting challenging encounters for instance.

Although it also means that encounters might be more challenging than normal, because you aren't necessarily playing "optimized" character builds.  (which means I'll need to be careful, and may end up needing to tone some of the encounters down, from what the plot point would suggest.)

(Note: there's another end-condition for your character which is death.  I've never had a character die (although I've adopted the attitude that I won't prevent it for at least the last 2-3 games I've run anywhere).  I think that there's a decent chance that it's because knowing that ahead of time people take a reasonably cautious approach to deadly situations.  If your character does die, you're free to make a new one and continue playing.  It's not the end for you, just for that character.)

[Jorbles]

That's all correct.  But, you have 2 unspent hindrance points.
You get: 1 edge for free.  1 for being blind.  and then you have 4 hindrance points, which you have spent 2 of to get a third edge.

Depending on what direction you're going with the hand-to-hand combat, you should consider: Martial Arts (no unarmed defender penalty, opponents don't get gang-up bonus), Chi Mastery (if you're interested in going Crouching Tiger-Hidden Dragon)

or you could consider Shamanism (if you want to explore more of the native american heritage).

You could also use those points to boost your stats, not sure if you want your character to be d4 Smarts. Sometimes low intelligence characters can be fun to play, but sometimes they can be frustrating.

[theorel]

That's all correct.  But, you have 2 unspent hindrance points.
You get: 1 edge for free.  1 for being blind.  and then you have 4 hindrance points, which you have spent 2 of to get a third edge.

Depending on what direction you're going with the hand-to-hand combat, you should consider: Martial Arts (no unarmed defender penalty, opponents don't get gang-up bonus), Chi Mastery (if you're interested in going Crouching Tiger-Hidden Dragon)

or you could consider Shamanism (if you want to explore more of the native american heritage).

You could also use those points to boost your stats, not sure if you want your character to be d4 Smarts. Sometimes low intelligence characters can be fun to play, but sometimes they can be frustrating.

True, I wasn't clear there.  I was offering those as suggestions of other edges that seem like they would fit your character concept.  Whether taken in addition to current build, or as considerations if you wanted to adjust the build, or for things to consider building towards.  Although in general, things like shamanism or chi mastery make more sense starting then later on.

Looking over the character sheet again, I'm not sure charismatic is particularly useful to you as is.  . Charisma is primarily a bonus to Persuasion and Streetwise skills, neither of which you have.  So, while it fits the "charming" aspect of your character, not all of those things need to be reflected by stats.  In particular it would make more sense (and be more effective) to invest in persuasion to achieve it.  Alternatively, keep the edge and invest in one of those skills.

[theorel]

Oh, something I meant to include in the first post...
Important skills:
Notice.  This is a ubiquitous skill, used often.  I recommend at least getting a d4 in it.

Healing: Someone should have this skill.  Without it, wounds take weeks to heal(1 vigor roll / week)...with it they can be healed in 10 minutes.

Also, to take some weight off of the character building: At the end of the first "session" you can move around your skill points.  Often times you'll only realize how useful (or useless) a skill is after playing a bit.  This helps take care of that without having people feel like they're stuck with a bum skill.